SMC same day as BOR?

[AdvT77C]

Our former Scout Master beleives that the Scout Master Conference cannot be on the same day as the Board of Review - that it has to be at least one day before (if not more). I cannot find that as a "rule" on the BSA website.

 

(In some cases I can see it if a scout while able to answer the scout master's questions may need a little more time to face the BOR but in cases where the scout is well prepared I don't see why they can't meet with the SM and later that evening meet with the BOR)

 

What does your troop do?

[Eagle92]

1)Welcome to the forums.

 

2) I can't seem to find that find that in teh adancement policies book, so you may want to politely ask him if he can show that BSA polciy to ya?

 

Growing up, the SMC was usually signed off minutes before the BOR. Except the Eagle SMC for those of us who waited to the last minute. I actually had my SMC for Eagle a day before I completed my last MB. Also had him sign off Scout Spirit too at that time.

[dg98adams]

You won't find the "rule' as I don't believe there is one....

 

A SMC can be held for more than 1 rank, and 1 or more BOR for both ranks can be held the same day.

 

This is usually more common for T-1C, after that not.

 

Most of the troop I serve has a BOR within a week of a SMC. Sometimes the day of, sometimes by the next meeting. Usually when the Scout lets the Adv. ASM know he is ready for a SMC, the Adv ASM confirms the Scouts HB matches the computer records before the SMC is held. We use Troop Master, which also produces reports on Scouts progress thru the ranks. With 40+ Scouts someone is almost always ready for a SMC/BOR every other week it seems.

 

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

My two cents:

 

There's nothing in the advancement literature prohibiting a Scoutmaster Conference and a Board of Review on the same night. As always, when someone throws up this sort of comment, ask him to show you the BSA literature.

 

With that said, I do not believe it a best practice to have both a Scoutmaster Conference and a Board of Review the same night. It takes the Scout out of the loop of Troop activities for over half the typical meeting.

 

Now, a Scoutmaster conference and Board of Review at Scout Camp? Different story. Conference can be early in the morning, before breakfast; Board of Review can be someplace quiet after supper.

[eagle90]

I try to have the SMC one week and BOR the next week, but, as you know, the best laid plans...

 

Many times the SMC and BOR occur on the same night. At Summer Camp toward the end of the week, I have done 20+ conferences in one day and the BOR's were held the same day. I'll do them any time the scout and I can get together.

 

The only exception is Eagle SMC's that take quite a bit longer. I will do those on a separate day, usually at my home.

[evmori]

A SMC cane be held immediatly before a BOR.

[ScoutNut]

A BOR can be held when ever the required number of Committee members (not ASM's) can be gotten together.

 

If there has been advance notice, and the Scout knows his requirements are complete, there should be no problem with holding them the same day. The easiest way would be to have the BOR directly after the meeting.

 

 

However you stated -

>>"In some cases I can see it if a scout while able to answer the scout master's questions may need a little more time to face the BOR"

[Twocubdad]

A couple thoughts:

 

First, as everyone has said, there is no rule or policy related to BoR/SMC scheduling one way or the other.

 

But there may be practical implications. In the troop I serve, following a SMC, Scouts are required to contact the troop advancement chairman and request a BoR. Officially we hold boards every two weeks, but more practically they are scheduled for the troop meeting after a Scout requests one. We believe this is another learning opportunity for a Scout. Making a phone call or email (or usually just approaching the lady at the end of the meeting), scheduling and keeping an appointment, and for some kids simply approaching an adult and making a request is a stretch for them.

 

Separating the SMC and BoR also gives the BoR more of an air of formality, which we believe is also good. The Scouts need to prepare for the board and review any material I've suggested at the SMC. They need to be in full dress uniform. Just as you will prepare differently for a meeting with the CEO and Board of Directors than you would a daily meeting with your direct supervisor, we want to the boys to experience a more dynamic program. Scouting should have formal occasions and informal, fun times and hard work, serious stuff and frivolous stuff -- you know, like the rest of life. Boards of Review are usually the only formal occasion individual Scouts experience.

 

On the other hand, we don't have a hard-and-fast rule about it. (Frankly, we don't have hard-and-fast rules about much of anything. We intentionally leave the folks on the ground a lot of lattitude to do what they feel is best.) If there is a compelling reason, like during summer camp, we'll convene a Board of Review immediately following a SMC if we have the adults and it's convenient for everyone. Generally we've only done this for the early ranks. Usually, behind the scenes, the adults will have an idea of who will be eligible for advancement and give a heads-up to the advancement folks before camp. That's more of a courtesy to the advancement committee than anything which involves the Scout.

 

The second point I would make is that since your Scoutmaster is the chief program officer and the person ultimately responsible for the advancement program, I'd give him a little lattitude on this. If there is a concern, ask. He may have a very good reason for running the program the way he does. Going into the situation in full Scout Lawyer mode and demanding he provide written authority will likely be unproductive.

 

But even if the Scoutmaster doesn't have a good reason for the delay, what's the rush? Who's arm will it break if a Scout completes an advancement 24 hours later? I'd be curious to know why and by whom this is being questioned. I smell a pushy parent in the bushes.

[packsaddle]

It could be the most efficient way to do things as well. I don't see anything inherently wrong with it and I don't see how some kind of mandatory waiting period contributes anything to the process. On the other hand, it's kind of risky to the boy. If for some reason, the SM unexpectedly doesn't show or can't be there, it might throw the whole process out of whack.

[NJCubScouter]

Under the usual circumstances, in our troop the scheduling of the BOR occurs after the SM conference has been completed, which in practical terms usually means that the BOR takes place the following week. Having recently taken over as Advancement Coordinator, I am trying to get into an every-other-week rotation for BOR's, but so far it has not worked out that way. I believe in one instance (out of 10 or so) the timing has worked out so that the BOR was held immediately after the SM conference. This was because if the BOR was not held that night, the Scout would not be recognized at the following Court of Honor but would have to wait a few months. Not that that would be a tragedy, but since we were able to work it out, that's how we did it.

[acco40]

The only time a Scoutmaster conference may not beheld for a Scout is during a board of review. However, the Scoutmaster, who is in charge of the advancement program of a troop, may have preferences that they like to adhere to.

 

Some of my pet peeves

 

1) Holding Scoutmaster conferences during troop meetings

2) Having pre-arranged boards of review

3) Having parents challenge the Scoutmaster in a confrontational manner on how they run the advancement program.

 

When I was a Scoutmaster, I learned that it was best that I did not give SMCs during a troop meeting. Meet with me before or after I told the Scout. My primary job during a meeting was to observe the SPL, ASPL and PLs so that I could help them by understanding how they conducted the meeting. Not "help" them conduct the meeting real time necessarily, but I need to take in how they conduct the meeting so that in the future, I could provide specific guidance to each Scout.

 

So, if a parent came up to me in a confrontation manner demanding where in the rules it stated that one could not hold SMCs during troop meetings it didn't help manners. If found that many parents interpreted my preferences on how I wanted to run the program as "rules."(This message has been edited by acco40)

[SMT224]

I do a SMC anytime a scout needs one, and the Committee conducts a BOR when there are enough Committee Members when the Scout is ready. It can be the same day, but not always. While I do not necessarily require a full Class A uniform for an SMC, the Committee always does for a BOR.

[acco40]

I do a SMC anytime a scout needs one, Same here when I initiate the SMC. But for advancement purposes, the Scout only "needs" one when they initate it. Also, they need to learn that it will be administered when it is convenient for the Scoutmaster. Not to be an ass, but the Scouts need to learn that they don't "demand" the timing, it needs to be mutually agreed to.

 

 

and the Committee conducts a BOR when there are enough Committee Members when the Scout is ready. The BOR should only be held if the Scout requests it (for advancement purposes), not just if there happens to be a quorum.

 

It can be the same day, but not always. While I do not necessarily require a full Class A uniform for an SMC, the Committee always does for a BOR. Sounds like an excellent way to go for both yourself and the Committee.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Beavah]

Yah, Adv77C, welcome again!

 

There's no "rule", but doin' a scoutmaster conference on the same day as a BOR would be relatively unusual for most troops. Most frequently, troops use a SMC as a "last" requirement, and then the boy or the SM contacts the committee member responsible to set up the BOR. That takes a week or two, because you're askin' for other adults to contribute their time like a courteous scout, not demanding it like a spoiled lad.

 

Some troops might schedule monthly BOR times just to control the demand on adults, and in that case I'd say it's also unusual for a boy to do a SMC on the same day, but it can happen. Maybe the lad meets the SM for ice cream after dinner and before the meeting where the BOR is held.

 

Most Scoutmasters, though, are like acco40, eh? When they're at a meeting, they're there for all the boys, especially the youth leader. It's unfair to expect 'em to devote personal time to any one boy for a SMC unless that's part of the normal meeting routine.

 

I think da most common place I've seen SMC/BOR on the same day is at camp or on campouts, eh? There it seems more natural, if yeh have the adults to put it together.

 

Any way yeh slice it, though, it's not an issue to be arguin' with the SM over.

 

Beavah

 

[raisinemright]

No hard fast rules.

 

My two boys were up for new rank, Tenderfoot and Life. At their last meeting before we moved out of state, I sent an e-mail to the SM and asked if we could bend the normal traditions to get them SMC and BOR the same day. My Life left about 2 weeks before his ASPL duties were over too.

 

If he agreed, I was going to have the boys request the SMC and BOR. He beat them to the punch, scheduled it and presented their patches immediately. They had to back date the one son but circumstances overruled the normal traditions. It made them very proud to earn rank from the troop they had been with for years (Troop and Pack)