Eagle Scout - how big an emphasis?

[sherminator505]

In some of these threads, I've noticed a lot of talk about Eagle Scout. How hard should a parent push? How hard should a Scouter push? How disappointed should I be if my Scout/son doesn't make Eagle?

 

I've also seen a lot of emphasis on Eagle among some of the Scouters I deal with in real life. I know one Scouter who has me scratching my head every now and again. Really nice guy, loves working with the boys, but he introduces himself by telling you how many Eagles his troop has produced. Is that really the be-all and end-all for him? I doubt it, but it sure seems that way sometimes.

 

All of this has me wondering if we don't sometimes develop an unhealthy obsession with Eagle. What is healthy? What is overkill? And what is simply unrealistic?

 

Your thoughts?

[Kahuna]

My thoughts on pushing are very little or none at all. It certainly doesn't hurt for parents to encourage their boys to participate, but I don't think it's up to them or the troop leadership to push them. The troop is there to make the program available and certainly the SM can ask at conference time whether the Scout has plans to advance further.

 

Seems to me it's just up to the kid. Some of them just want to be part of Scouting and have fun and that's fine with me. We were always proud of our Eagles and had a special plaque on display, but we never emphasized how many we had.

[evmori]

Unless you are the parent, you have no control on how hard the parent pushes. When my son was in Boy Scouts, the only time I pushed him was to get out of the way.

[artjrk]

As a Scoutmaster I measure my success on how many of my scouts stay active through aging out. I will do what I can to help the scout that wants to advance, but that is not my goal.Last year we had a group of boys where about 8 of 12 stay active through their senior year and they earned their Eagle in the final 2 years. A good number of them also were active with OA in leadership positions and the ceremonies team. These are the type of guys I want to see and feel good when I can be part of their scouting career. But I also have boys who never move past 1st class or lower but remain active all the way through. I am just as proud of them. They just don't care for the advancement part of scouting.

 

As a Parent I have one senior who can reach Eagle this year, I offer any support he needs and am willing to go on any hike he needs to finish "Hiking" but I will not force him. My other son is a sophmore and is happy to stay at 1st Class. He is just as active as any scout and has been the Chaplain's Aide for almost two years. He does this because he sees the need for it, not for the requied PoR.

 

[WAKWIB]

It's an earned rank that should display the fact that a young man has learned much and exercised responsible leadership. However, I think we can over-emphasize it in a sense that we might expect that every boy that joins Scouting must hit that mark, no matter what.

 

Over the years I've seen a bit of cutting corners on requirements, overlooking bad behavior, and the like, in the effort to keep the kid on track so he can make Eagle. Obviously a poor standard to follow.

 

Encouragement is one thing and is part of the Scouter and Parents job. But to drag the chronically stubborn, lazy, uncooperative Scout like a obstinate mule up the Trail to Eagle is a bad reflection on the program and the merits of the rank.

[Eagle92]

I admit I have mixed emotions on this. One one hand I know that the goal of Scouting isn't Eagle, but rather giving the youth a chance to grow physically, mentally, and morally. I've seen a few who I couldn't beleive were Eagles, and I've seen guys who I just couldn't believe were not Eagles. I have friends who didn't make it to Eagle, but I have the utmost respect for them, and am willing to trust them with my life in any situation (heck in one case with one individual I did).

 

On the other hand, I do want my sons to be Eagles. I admit I am sometimes harder on the oldest than his buddies in the den b/c I know what he's capable of doing. I am working on that. I am also doing my best to keep Cub Scouting fun, and not focus on advancement and belt loops, etc. I beleive that all the stuff will come with an active program. But I am pushing a little on his religius award. He has until May to finish it, and I am reminding him to take his book with him to church so that he can work on it while the sermon is going on. I rather him work on that than be bored or fall asleep

 

Hopefully I'm like my old SM and the leaders in my troop growing up. The mentored us and guided us, but left the work and motivation to get Eagle to us. Maybe a swift kick to the seat of the pants as a reminder that you only got 4 months to finishn

[Stosh]

I am not an Eagle Scout. Spent 4 years in scouting and got to 2nd Class. It was a poorly run troop. I've told myself that I will never do to a boy what was done to me.

 

With that being said, I do not emphasize Eagle as much as I promote individual leadership development. I constantly prepare my boys for the world to come. If he enters it as an Eagle, great, if he doesn't, that's still great.

 

Buddy System: Marriage

Patrol Method: Family, work

POR: Church boards, community involvement

Service Projects: volunteerism

etc.

 

If these dynamics aren't taught, the boy will turn 18 and haven't a clue what's expected of him in adult life. Most people take a few years learning on their own and hopefully in the long run it works for them.

 

I always ask my boys: after they're married and have kids of their own and their little 6 year-old comes up and asks, "Daddy, can we go to Disney World?" and you have to say no because you don't know how to read maps, plan meals, provide shelter, pack appropriately, budget costs and coordinate with the Mrs. etc. because you've never had to do it before. It's going to be a sad day for you (and your little one). Scouting provides an opportunity to teach/learn all these things before the boys turn 18.

 

One doesn't need to be an Eagle to be able to be a great husband, father and friend. It's a nice perk, but not a prerequisite for life. Scouting is.

 

I'm surely not going to stand in the way of any scout wanting to get his Eagle. That's a great thing, but I see far too often, a boy following all the steps, following all the directions, following all the best ideas, following all the advice of others, and never once leading anything and still getting his Eagle because he fulfilled all the requirements. Kindergarten 101, Following Directions.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

Stosh

[NJCubScouter]

I have to admit that I "pushed" my son somewhat, and other leaders "pushed" him as well... and I have assisted in "pushing" other Scouts. BUT in almost all of these conversations, the first sentence was something like, "Do you want to go for this or not", and if the answer had been No, that would have been it as far as I was concerned. In my son's case (and the other Scouts) the answer was always Yes, which justifies moving on to the issue of "Okay, what do you have to do to get there." So, No to pushing someone to do what he doesn't want to do, but Okay to some pushing (let's call it helping instead) someone to do what he does want to do. Within reason, of course.

 

When I think back to my own Scouting years, my father (whose example I try to follow on these things) did exactly the same thing. When I said I did not want to go for Eagle, he was disappointed, but he did not "push." He was a Star for Life, and I am a Life for Life, and it would have been nice if he could have seen his grandson make Eagle. At least I got to see it!(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

[Horizon]

OK - opening myself up for some flaming marshmallows here.

 

My son earned his Eagle. He was once asked during his trail whether that was a goal.

 

"It is my goal. I also really don't have a choice - my parents expect it of me."

 

Now - I did not serve as his counselor for every badge. I WAS (and still am) the Scoutmaster, and will continue to be the Scoutmaster for awhile. He had the advantage of a parent who was already going to the meeting/campout/activity - so he did not have to ever ask for a ride, permission, etc.

 

But I am happy to state that I have high expectations, and he knows it. These extend to grades, activities, Scouting, church, etc.

[shortridge]

I always ask my boys: after they're married and have kids of their own and their little 6 year-old comes up and asks, "Daddy, can we go to Disney World?" and you have to say no because you don't know how to read maps, plan meals, provide shelter, pack appropriately, budget costs and coordinate with the Mrs. etc. because you've never had to do it before. It's going to be a sad day for you (and your little one).

 

I love this!

[perdidochas]

I think Eagle is a worthwhile goal. That said, I don't think it's a requirement. Would I love it if my two sons (the first a Tenderfoot, the second a second year Webelos Scout) became Eagles? Of course. I will also support whatever they want to do or not do. If they want to quit now, I'm ok with it. I just hope that they get something out of what they have done.

[Venividi]

This is a topic that key scouters in each unit should sit down and discuss so that everyone is on the same page. Much conflict in a troop results from differing expectations among leaders and parents, which could be reduced when there are common expectations.

 

I had a recent conversation with a scout master about his trip to summer camp this year . The reply was effectively "It was Great! XXX number of merit badges for YY boys!" They are quite proud of the number of boys in their troop that reach Eagle.

There are other scouters that discourage such high numbers of merit badges at summer camp, because it reduces the time spent on patrol actvities.

Disagreements occur when leaders with these different views are in the same troop and have not discussed which to emphasise.

 

[CalicoPenn]

We don't push, we support and mentor. Eagle Scout has to be a personal goal - if a Webelos crosses over and says he wants to become an Eagle Scout, we mentor and support, we ask how things are going, we monitor, and we check in during SM conferences and BOR's and casual conversations if that's still a goal of the Scout.

 

Parents push - it would be nice if they didn't but they do. We have to figure out a way to make it less of a chore for the Scout, more fun - thats a challenge, but it can be done.

 

I earned my Eagle Scout badge. My two younger brothers didn't - both Life for life. They don't feel they missed anything. Neither do I. I've mentioned that I earned my Eagle through my Explorer Post. Had I stayed in the Troop, I doubt I would have earned it. I doubt I would have worked towards it. But most of my Post-mates were also Eagle Scouts. My parents never pushed me (though I knew my Dad hoped I would get Eagle - but he never insisted or pushed, just supported) but the guys in the Post pushed me a bit - I consider it positive peer pressure. I'm glad they did. It's funny - our Post also had a high number of members that were chosen for the OA Vigil Honor as youths too. I was one of them.

 

To be honest, as nice as it was to earn the Eagle Scout rank, I can't think of any instance where it made a big difference in my life. It didn't help me get into school, it didn't help me at school (at my college, everyone was an "uber-outdoorsperson", even the science degree folks. It hasn't helped me get jobs. I can't think of any job where I was asked if I was an Eagle Scout - come to think of it, not even the BSA High Adventure Base in Maine asked me if I was, though that might possibly have more to do with the degree program and the school I was going to than anything else.

 

I don't regret getting the Eagle Scout badge - most of the time, but there are times that I regret not getting an Hornaday Award, which is what I really wanted to get when I was an 11 year old Scout. I had to make a conscious decision at 16 which I was going to concentrate on - I chose Eagle. Sometimes I wish I had a Scout leader who pushed me a bit on doing the things necessary to get the Hornaday, or at least mentored me in the process. Alas, being a boy from the "wild" suburbs of Chicago, I wasn't surrounded by a lot of Scouters that knew much about the Hornaday Award, or for that matter knew anyone who had ever gotten one.

 

Long answer shortened (I know - too late): Let your Scout/son be the person who makes the decision - support him in that decision - and know that though many put Eagle Scout on a pedestal, it's really just one expression of a Scout's experience.

[Beavah]

Yah, what VeniVidi said, eh?

 

Different strokes for different folks, but it's best that a unit be up-front in its expectations and description of the way it looks at things.

 

Personally, I see kids get plenty out of being "pushed", and I see kids get plenty out of scouting when it's not pushy. Loosely speakin', I think younger fellows need a push now and then, but teenagers mostly resent it and are apt to react poorly. Especially if it's a parent pushing, eh? I once sat and listened to an ASM give a "you should earn Eagle" speech to a Life Scout. Completely turned the kid off. He was easily Eagle material and da right sort of adult mentor would have gotten him to come 'round by not pushing, but the push just made the fellow decide it was a stupid adult thing.

 

So if yeh ask me which I prefer... I'd say it's valuing da interest of the kids, whatever it happens to be. For the young fellows, if they like collecting tree frogs, support 'em collecting tree frogs. Oooh and ah over the big ones. Get 'em a field book to help 'em identify the species and learn a bit more. Let 'em play, and then support their play with meaning. Turning Eagle into an expectation or "work" or somethin' to "get through" is always a poor choice.

 

Beavah

 

[Novice_Cubmaster]

A 16 year old friend and classmate of my son recently committed suicide. He had told friends that he was having trouble coping with the academic pressures at home and school - and the pressure at home to get his eagle. Its sad that scouting, which could have been a great stress reliever for this young man, was misused by his parents and added to his misery.

 

NC