just curious, what do you think

[Lisabob]

We've all heard about parents who tell their boys "You can't have a car (or license) until you earn Eagle!" And I think many of us agree that this is often not such a good thing.

 

What about this one: "You can't have a car (or license) until you earn the Auto Mechanics Merit Badge!" ??

 

 

[nolesrule]

That's certainly a much better solution when it comes to cars.

 

I know an auto mechanic who does a monthly 2 hour hands-on car care clinic aimed at women and teenagers. It's 1/2 classroom, 1/2 hands on. I'm working with her to become a MBC for Automotive Maintenance (the current MB name). My idea would be that we can invite scouting units to attend her course as an introduction to the MB, and those who wish to earn the merit badge will then be able to make arrangements with her on an individual basis (i.e. no "merit badge class").

[Stosh]

Hmmmm, I guess from my perspective as SM, it's not my place to judge what a parent should or shouldn't do for their children.

 

Eagle or MB's it's just a matter of: "Because I said so..." should be sufficient for those in the BSA program.

 

Stosh

[evmori]

If a parent wants to dangle that carrot for their son, that is up to them. Personally, I never did that with my kids & I don't feel it teaches the proper lesson.

[RememberSchiff]

Scouts should be self-motivated towards their advancement. There is more quid pro quo going on today not only between parent and child but within scouting too. An individual merit badge seems innocent enough (Auto Mechanics is a tough mb), but where does it stop? Maybe there should be an added requirement on all merit badges - "I undertook this merit badge because I wanted to and earned it without accepting any bribes". Could be worded better but you get the idea.

 

If I was part of a BOR and asked a scout, "What motivated you to take the path to Eagle?"

 

Scout: "My parents promised me a car."

 

RS: "Was there any other motivation? What if there was no car offer?"

 

Scout: "No. Probably wouldn't be here."

 

I would vote no. He wanted a car not Eagle.

 

My $0.01,

 

(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

[CalicoPenn]

I'd vote yes - that would be one of the most honest answers to a question given - and Scouting is nothing if not about character.

[evmori]

I'm with Schiff. I'd vote no. In my opinion, this is a lack of character.(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Lisabob]

Thanks for the MB name update. I missed that one. Somehow, maintenance sounds a little less scary, and more everyday-applicable than mechanics (I could do maintenance, I would hire a mechanic!)

 

I am not saying that I personally would do, or am doing, this. This is someone else's idea that we have been kicking around, and so I posted here in order to get a wider sampling of opinions. But I am curious about why some of you think this shows lack of character. It is, after all, directly related to the topic at hand. Prior to engaging in what I think all of us might agree is a major, life-changing milestone (driving), why should a parent not expect a child to show that he is capable of taking care of the responsibilities that go with that decision? Is this really any different than requiring a child to take driver's ed?

 

Now, granted, driver's ed is mandatory in the state where I live right now (if you want a license before you turn 18). But if it were voluntary, I doubt many kids would take it unless forced to by their parents. So for teens who are boy scouts, why is a merit badge, one that is directly related to the situation, different?

 

 

 

[skeptic]

My experience has been that most of the time it is counter productive. But, every parent approaches things differently, and each scout responds differently. That said, most of the "I finished it, now I'm done" Eagles were likely coerced to start with.

 

While the skills of the required badges are apparent, the less visible element is the development of "personal initiative" and "character". The more self motivated, the more these things are apparent and will serve them going forward.

 

JMHO

[Eamonn]

We have been with the same insurance company for a very long time, HWMBO was with them long before she met me.

When it came time to add OJ to our policy our agent requested that we all meet with him in his office. The agent belongs to the same club that we do. I wouldn't call him a friend, just someone that when we meet we exchange small talk and pleasantries.

He gave OJ a long talk about what it meant to be a driver, how it was a responsibility. All in all it took about 45 minutes.

He was darn good, he didn't preach. He told it like it was.

I was so impressed that I moved some of our other policies over to him.

He has since at my request with the OK from the QD given talks about car insurance to the Ship. Most of the members are old enough to drive, most do but we have a couple who so far have shown no interest in becoming a driver.

Ea.

 

[ScoutNut]

This really has very little to do with Scouts, advancement, or pushing the rank of Eagle.

 

It has to do with a very practical use of their resources by parents.

 

If a teenager wants a car, as a parent it is well within good parenting, and good character, practices to make sure that their child knows something about how a car works, and how to take care of it. I don't know about you, but I would feel much better about my son driving (in the city or especially out in the woods) if he had a clue what it means when the oil gauge drops, or how to change a tire.

 

I think having him do the Automotive Maintenance merit badge in advance of getting a car is a great idea. It helps him both with his car, and his Scouting. It demonstrates how what he is learning in Scouts can impact his everyday life.

 

Why is this a bad thing?

 

[Engineer61]

I don't know if I'd vote no on the Scout...but if the parents intended to use the car are a motivation for Eagle, I'd definitely vote no on them!

 

 

[Oak Tree]

I think it's perfectly reasonable for parents to set some expectations on what might be required in order to use a given resource.

 

Requiring the Automotive Maintenance merit badge in order to get to use a car seems like an entirely reasonable deal.

 

----

On the other topic, I'm not aware of any place where it says that an Eagle has to be self-motivated.

[RememberSchiff]

Good discussion. Everyone got the merit badge name right but me I used the old name Auto Mechanics, sorry. The merit badge is now called Auto Maintenance and I think it is one of the harder merit badges. Hats off to those ambitious scouts, who on their own, undertake and earn it!

 

By 16 yrs, I would expect a scout to demonstrate more maturity and self-motivation in planning to reach his life goals - college, drivers license, Eagle Scout, whatever. Sadly, my troop has unmotivated, parent-micro-managed Eagle Scouts which to me is a contradiction. Self motivation is part of Scout Spirit for me.

 

Another $0.01

 

[acco40]

Okay, time to put on my psychology hat.

 

Answer: It depends.

 

If the reasoning behind the rule "You can't have a car (or license) until you earn the Auto Mechanics Merit Badge!" is because the parent feels the Scout needs to have knowledge of car maintenance no issue. If it strictly is because the parent places a value judgment on earning a merit badge to achieve rank or status, not such a good idea.

 

Seemingly harmless things like "Eat your vegetables and you can have a piece of cake" puts emotional content into food choices. Eat vegetables: a punishment, a bad thing, etc. Eat dessert/sweets: a reward, comfort, etc. And then we wonder why some try to gain happiness by eating. One of my biggest pet peeves - the judge ordered the offender to do 100 hours of community service. Then we wonder why our Scouts tend to view community service as punishment. Jeez.

 

I had one son that is heavily influenced by "bribes" such as these and one who is not. I think the real answer is it depends on the individual but like money for grades, I tend to feel these should be kept to a minimum.(This message has been edited by acco40)