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desertrat77

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Everything posted by desertrat77

  1. Scouting is the perfect venue to teach youth the value of HEALTHY competition. In our misbegotton notion of protecting kids from hurt feelings, or even a worthy goal of calling out the jerk coaches and parents of the world, we've allowed the pendulum to swing too far. Parents, teachers, scout leaders--many of these folks seek to stifle the natural desire to compete and win. Society has tried to elevate the generic "participation" ribbon to a badge of honor--when the kids instinctively know that this is complete and utter rubbish. And an unsatisfying result of their efforts. This also grows new adults who are unprepared for the workforce, where there is competition of all kinds, good and bad. Entering adulthood thin-skinned is a tough way to start. Healthy competition can be cultivated and ingrained in an organization. It takes courage, though, on the part of all the adults. Alas, many would rather take the easy way out and just turn every event into play time, "because winning isn't important, but having fun is...." False. You know what's fun? Winning. And winning in a scoutlike manner--from prep, to field of play, to post game--is possible. It really builds the positive character and confidence that we are seeking. The scouts can handle it. The adults? Many adults carry the baggage of childhood events with them, and seek to insulate their scouts from even healthy competition. Sad and unnecessary. It takes courage and strength to compete. These traits are also needed to create a culture of healthy competition. Ultimately, it would benefit youth and the adults. We can do it. It's still part of our national will. We've got three great NFL games on TV today, and many Americans will savor each moment of play. This is a good thing, and whether it's an NFL game, or a local flag football game, or the pinewood derby, or orienteering race at the camporee, the same spirit of healthy competition is the common thread that attracts people to achieve something higher than the status quo. Happy Thanksgiving! (This message has been edited by desertrat77)
  2. I was toddler on 22 Nov 63, no memory of the tragic event that day. 11 Sep 01, stationed in Okinawa. Due to the time zone difference, it was about 10 pm there, the kids were finally asleep and I decided to watch a few minutes Armed Forces Network, and noticed that some news was breaking..... Watched TV till about 1 am...all the while, a typhoon was kicking up. As I was trying to comprehend what I was seeing on CNN, the wind and rain were howling. Typhoon didn't amount to much after all...mid morning on the 12th, we were all recalled. Everyone seemed to sense that some challenging duty was ahead. (This message has been edited by desertrat77)
  3. Great discussion...thank you all, I just learned a few things.
  4. Let's not classify all complaining as mere complaining. In some places, scouting is indeed grim. In these instances, the person voicing the complaints should not be summarily dismissed as a malcontent. Further, "all is well/don't worry be happy" is sometimes an outright denial of reality, or a misguided satisfaction with mediocrity. Neither position is all/nothing, black/white, but rather a spectrum. OGE's description is spot on--this is an employee's lounge. We cuss/discuss, vent a bit, and then get back in the game.
  5. JMHawkins, great points all. If I have one main beef about WB, it's false advertising. I like the idea of a two track adult advanced training plan. If WB is your cup of tea, great. Enjoy. But, if the outdoors is where you want your personal pinnacle of scout leader training, that course should be offered, and on the same footing as WB. (Yes, I understand such a program exists, but you have to be a WB grad to do it. Get rid of that prerequisite, and you'll see people signing up in droves.) Kudu, I had a similar experience at our spring camporee. I was staffing the orienteering competition and noted that a) no one brought a compass, though the camporee guide said there would be a compass course (the scouts had to borrow from the staff) and b) though the course was extremely elementary (nothing approaching the complexity/adventure of your course), each patrol needed a refresher course on how to use the compass. Didn't matter whether the patrol was comprised of newbies or senior scouts. As you noted, the scouts learned quickly and did well. Why they weren't trained or prepared before camporee is the real issue.
  6. I move alot, which has its pros and cons. So I get to see a variety of scouting programs. If scouting works well in your neck of the woods, count your blessings.
  7. Looking back, being a den chief was a wonderful job as a second class scout. It helped me prepare for being a patrol leader. All good thoughts mentioned above. I'd only add/reemphasize: - Ensure the cubs know the DC is part of the leadership team and they should respect him as such - Your expectations for the DC should be discussed and clear - Give the DC tasks...a few should be challenging, so he can grow - Now and again, include the DC in the less glorious parts of management, like the administrative part of organizing events, etc. Not to bog down or discourage, but to provide insight and appreciation for what you do. He'll be a better scout for it. Best wishes to all.
  8. I'm thinking along the lines of Dg..... She is 18, and a registered adult scouter, attending adult scouter training. I think she qualifies as an adult. Understand the gray area of the Venture status, but that seems to be secondary in the case at hand.
  9. Though it's a mystery to me, some folks like long boring lectures. Unfortunately, these are the folks that usually are recruited for training cadres (birds of a feather). If volunteers are staying away in droves, or must have arms twisted to attend, it's time to look at the "product." Maybe the product is no good.
  10. OGE, I just noted your post about the 60 lb loss--congratulations! I recall a thread a few years ago when you mentioned your goal. Many kudos.
  11. Back in the '80s, when I was an ASM, my SM and I wrote a letter to National that was critical of the new, about to be implemented FCFY. For many of the reasons stated in this thread. We got a letter back from National that said "We find it curious that someone would criticize a new program that has not been implemented, and without knowing the details...."...or words to that effect, but the tone stands out in my memory. What the heck did we lowly troop level guys know? That was the upshot. The author finished with "We have provided a copy of your letter and our response to your local council." So they let Dean Wormer know we weren't on board, which probably wasn't a surprise to our council leadership, as our troop and the council were on different planets (pro-outdoors v. anti-outdoors). So fast forward to now. If the SM and I were hasty, or wrong, I'd be willing to admit it. I don't think we were. The original selling point was "get the scout to first class, and he'll be more likely to stay in scouts." A worthy idea? Perhaps. The problem? Emphasis was on speed over competence, quantity over quality. Some of the best scouts and scouters in the world topped out at First Class, Star, and Life. It wasn't about a race up the ranks. They were great patrol leaders and SPLs, thoroughly proficient in all aspects of outdoor living. They enjoyed passing along the spirit of scouting and inspired many new scouts to continue the journey. A few "management problems" with these great scouts: the BSA doesn't really give a rip about anything other than Eagle, so great Life scouts aren't "counted" in any respectful way. And how do you quantify how many quality Star/Life SPLs exist? Too hard. Not glorious enough. Count Eagles, it makes a bigger splash. What do I see today? Climb the ladder, fill the squares, and get as many Eagle congrats letters as you can from people that don't know you from Adam's house cat. The more letters mom can stuff in that leather memory binder, the better. Then off to college, with the same mindset. PS Truthfully, the squared away SPLs that finish as Star and Life give more lasting value to the BSA than many Eagles. And the FC/Star/Life guys continue to provide outstanding leadership as scouters. Can't put that on a nifty spreadsheet, or on a powerpoint slide, but that doesn't lessen their contributions.
  12. Eagle92, I concur...scout led BORs and training are invaluable experiences....
  13. As JoeBob said, important skills should be cumulative. Do we need a giant red tape machine to re-test proficiency? No. If scouts know that their leaders expect cumulative proficiency, the scouts will strive for that. They won't want to let anyone down. On the other hand, if they sense requirement sign off is nothing but a big pencil whip, they will met those low expectations as well, even though the vast majority of scouts are capable of so much more. The scouts' ability to learn and achieve high standards isn't the problem. The adults often set the bar low, and the program goes from there.
  14. BDPT, There ain't much in WB that hasn't already been taught in Management 101 at any community college or corporate professional development seminar. I await the revelation of what makes the WB version of these games and lessons so special.
  15. Intruder/non-WBer observation.... So this is the life changing/mountain top stuff that replaced the old outdoor focused WB program?
  16. "Maybe it will shake up the old boys' club of guys with six rows of knots on their shirts who turned Jamboree into an outlet for their scouting bravado, turning their tent area into a country club of unidirectionally-fanned, mini-fridged comfort, all unloaded from a car driven directly to the end of their cot. Looking at how we all arranged ourselves at AP Hill, I wonder if a lot of these folks had even seen the inside of a backpacking tent in the past decade..." Bando, that is a powerful and well said para, kudos. I think the situation you described is affecting BSA outside of jambo too.
  17. Slowly, but steadily, the indoor managerial aspect of scouting has impacted the outdoor program. And not for the better. In decades past, there were leaders who gravitated towards paperwork and meetings. Other scouters avoided all that as much as they could, and were at home in the outdoors. Each party more or less coexisted, paying a grudging respect for the other's necessary role in scouting. A few were good at both. Somewhere along the line, I think the indoor folks got tired of being upstaged by the outdoors folks. So the reduced focus on outdoors and adventure was reflected in scout advancement requirements, and woodbadge as well. No more embarrassment for the folks not so good at sharpening an axe, who hated sleeping in the outdoors, or smelling like campfire smoke.... Blend this with the misbegotten notion that "everyone is a winner because we don't dare harm their self esteem" along with chasing stats, and you've got a watered down program that isn't appealing to anyone--except the folks that like paperwork and being indoors. The scouts? They can handle the challenges of the old style program. It was the BSA's winning formula, and it was shelved because the majority of the SCOUTERs weren't up for the challenge.....
  18. The question posed, as others pointed out, is a little broad...but has generated great discussion. As a UC, my "trust" angle--when it comes to respecting scouting's history, respect for unit level scouters, and promoting truly outdoor programming.... I do not trust National. They seem bent on transforming scouting away from the winning formula. An unnecessary revisit to the failed Improved Scouting Program of the '70s. I lived it and would not recommend it. I trust the council and district folks--my current. Very fortunate. Can't say that about my previous three councils/districts. Mixed bag from helpful to absent to downright subversive. Unit level...about 98 percent I trust. Some have their agendas, some are not reliable and yet refuse to give way to someone who can do the job...for the most part, I trust them.
  19. Scoutfish, you never know.... When I was stationed in NJ, at Walmart a gent who worked in sporting goods helped me get set up for fishing from the shore, A - Z...took 30 mins of his time, a great experience. Granted, a rare experience at Walmart but a pleasant one nonetheless. I understand what you are saying about specialized gear. However, the BSA uniform hasn't been specialized since the late '60s. Previously it was designed for rugged outdoor wear. From the '70s on, it's just some fancy duds to wear to a meeting or training. I don't consider meetings or training specialized. If the BSA is looking to have something unique to wear around town, to show identity, we could go a whole lot cheaper and better looking. If the BSA uniform was specialized for the outdoors, I'd have no problem spending the extra bucks. But it's not, so I'll continue to wear my Oscar De L shirt from the '80s till it wears out, or I do.....
  20. There is nothing special about today's BSA uniform..... Eagle 92: you are right, jambo type events are good training for the military. It takes talent to do something like that right. As far as terminology, got a chuckle from the "refugee ops"...when I was on camp staff as a scout, and filling out the tax paperwork before the start of the summer, our camp director said we staffers were in the same tax category as "migrant workers." Helped us keep things in perspective!
  21. Beavah, your post is sublime, well said. Moosetracker, for anyone who is experienced in the outdoors, and been thru a few scrapes themselves, there is plenty of evidence in the article for analysis. The only positive aspect of the story is that the guys are alive today, thankfully, and collectively we can learn from their experience. Sweeping things under the rug to prevent embarrassment doesn't help anyone. The story and discussion here may prevent some bad hikes elsewhere. It's worth it to rehash. In the military we call it a hotwash...leave your ego and rank at the door, and take the feedback, good and bad. Have we been tough on the guys? Yes. I admit I have. Truth is, hikes like this bring discredit on all scouts, Tenderfoot or Eagle, former or current. Members of a community are toughest on their comrades. It's called mutual accountability. Keeps us all on our toes.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)
  22. The issue is being way overthought. Whatever you do, retire the flag with dignity. There is no right or wrong way. If the wind shifts and folks get a lung full of smoke, so be it. Only in America would we fret about something like this. We are made of stronger stuff than we think. Our deployed service members inhale much worse 24/7 in their base camps--dust, generator exhaust, all kinds of exotic pollution from off base, burn pits, open sewage ponds, etc. A whiff of burning nylon in the great outdoors is a good reminder for me. If anyone served on summer camp staff in ancient times, you'll remember that all trash was burned. Staff members had the duty, and you'd inhale plenty of weirdly scented toxic smoke over the course of half an hour. This is heresy and child abuse by today's standards, true. But there are plenty of old camp staff alum alive and kicking. Kind of cantankerous and wondering aloud when chow is going to be served, these old staffers, but they survived.
  23. Ana, what you currently use is fine. Kathy's suggestion is good too. Scoutfish, I got a real chuckle out of your observation that military folks and retirees didn't get upset. I've served in the military for 27 years now, and I'm the same way. The scouts are doing their best. The commands and ceremony can be done any number of ways. Their heart is in the right place. This isn't boot camp. The only folks I've seen get bossy about drill and ceremony in the BSA are folks that aren't military. Likewise, when it comes to uniform zealots, they are usually not military. I hear more uniform reg quoting and hand wringing about uniforms when I'm at scouting events than I ever do on duty. But I digress...... Ana, I'm sure your cubs are on the right path, and I wish you all the very best!(This message has been edited by desertrat77)
  24. Basement, I agree. Scouts should show some initiative, resilience, and problem solving skills. Hugging a tree at the first sign of confusion beyond the age of 11 shows a lack of personal responsibility and judgment.
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