walk in the woods

So let's assume volunteers have the ability to float reservation fees and such. Doesn't that create a situation where the troop checkbook register ends up with a large number of the checks made out to individuals? Sure, the Treasurer might be very diligent in filling out the memo section of each check and the volunteers very diligent in turning in every receipt. However, doesn't the audit process become a tedious and error prone activity trying to match it all back up a year later? It seems more likely to me a single illicit check to an individual could get lost in the noise of the account. With a debit card each line item is paid directly and noted as such on an independent statement that can still be verified with receipts.. It's curious that the BSA was pushing Discover Debit Cards (http://www.scoutsarethrifty.com/) on scouts a few years ago but units can't be trusted with them.

I posted in a thread long ago the idea of moving the SLE ranks and MB program into Venturing, then using the award structure to create multiple tracks to the highest ranks in scouting. If we did that we could change the Boy Scout program into a middle school program with scouts focused exclusively on scout/woods skills. No need for FCFY, Trail to Eagle or MBs at summer camp, the boys could just go play in the woods. The Venturing program would have multiple 3-tier highest awards for scouts to choose from, Quartermaster, Ranger, Quest, Trust, Eagle, and whatever I'm forgetting. The structure would also give the ability to bring in other disciplines, Air Scout Aces, Shooting Sports Sharpshooters, etc.. MBs could be used as the basis for some of those tracts or just for fun and Stosh's tiered MB structure would fit perfectly. The other thing we could do is then use the Venturing Award level as a way for non-boy-scout Venturers to level up to FC so they could still achieve the upper awards.

Not so much . Winning personalities, sunny dispositions, singing talent, poise, grace, food preferences are all the things of man. So let me ask you this, what makes a painting a masterpiece? The quality of the canvass? The oil in the paints? The hair in the brush? Or the "life" the creator breathes into it? The intangibles we call "art" have nothing to do with the physical medium and everything to do with the emotional, dare I say spiritual, qualities it brings out in us. It's not my place to know the mind of God or even pretend to try to understand it. The scriptures don't say he created the world, and it was perfect, it says he created the world and it was good. Maybe it's good enough for him to develop the physical man into the spiritual man that was created in his image. You know, kind of like using an outdoor program to develop character!

You are assuming of course that God is done creating. Maybe evolution is simply the method God chose to create. I suppose it also assumes "created in his image" is a physical attribute and not some other say spiritual attribute. Only the arrogance of man would assume such.

It's backpacks. See, the kids have more and heavier backpacks at younger ages. This causes them to lean forward more and more. In order to keep their balance evolution kicked in and produced bigger feet. My 17yo is my height but his feet are two sizes bigger.

Skeptic, deleted

Typical liberal mindset. Seems to me there could be two ways to create inclusive spaces, their choice is to remove all symbols; the second choice would be to add in others. This decision creates not an inclusive space but a sterile space. Educated idiots.

I think it also says a lot about where society places its values. It wouldn't be too difficult to break uniforms down into those valued by society and those not valued by society. And by society I think I really mean peer groups. All the uniforms you mentioned, religious attire, Wall Street banker, Military, Naval and Air Forces are valued by society and/or peer groups. I think you could also add police, fire department and sports uniforms to that list. In our area a blue corduroy FFA jacket with a giant yellow corn cob cross-section on the back, white shirt and tie are valued and kids wear them to school. We never seem to talk about the other uniforms that aren't valued by society. Do marching band members where their uniforms to school on Friday before the game? My son is on the HS Scholatic Bowl team, I don't believe his team mates wear their uniforms, jeans and a t-shirt, on meet days (Interestingly, the drama club kids do wear their t-shirts to school and celebrate their engagement in that program.) I've never seen a small town parade to celebrate the local debate team winning the championship. And some of it is situational. Your lumberjack uniform would be well received while lumbering in the great northwest. It would be less-well received at a formal dinner party at the White House. I'd also argue that some of the analogy of uniform wear misses the point. While I appreciate folks that wear their uniform doing everything, that doesn't seem to be the norm. Baseball players wear their uniform while playing games but they wear an activity uniform while practicing. People know they are ball players because of what they are doing. Kids involved in FFA don't wear their blue coats when they are farming or selling citrus, but people know them by their actions. Marching band kids don't wear their uniforms to practice, they are recognized by their actions (and the trombones). Even religious folk that wear head gear sometimes have formal and informal head gear, no? Military members have dress uniforms and working uniforms. They all seem to get along ok with options, because their programs are valued. The problem isn't the uniform so much as the value society and their peer groups place on the program. That changed a long time ago. Kids are smart enough to pick up on this stuff.

LC, not sure what is available beyond the cheddar curtain, but, you might also the Illinois DNR has teaching boxes of stuff scattered around the state for just the kind of thing you are suggesting. Our RTC has used them for flora and fauna identification. If IL has it we probably stole the idea from somewhere else. You're probably already all over it though.

I'll take the challenge. If the Troop historian is making sure pictures are taken at activities and campouts, getting those pictures posted to the troop's website, facebook page and sent to the local paper, and doing so without significant prompting from adults, then he is showing significant personal leadership. In addition, maybe he coordinates with the PLs to collect pictures they took, or follows up with the SPL/ASPL to get interviews about a specific outing to post to the website. The Troop Historian's leadership, while not at the Patrol level is at the Troop level and contributes directly to furthering the mission of scouting by supporting his unit's recruiting efforts. In addition, I believe it is much harder to lead when there is no direct reporting responsibility especially if you may have to lead those appointed over you. The position, correctly done, is part of the solution to the invisible scout thread, no?

Compared to the opposition in Russia being gunned down in the street I suppose.

This is an interesting proposition. Let's not forget it was only 20 years ago that the DLC was a potential threat to break up the Democrats. I'm not sure I agree with your assumption that a split would result in Democrats winning every office. I think if the Republicans were to split tomorrow we might be surprised at how fast conservative members of the Democratic party would move to the new centrist party that would form from the split. We saw something similar with the old "Solid South" split from the Democrats after Reagan won his election in 1980.

This is the meat of the issue. LFL and Exploring ARE scouting. Different division, different goals, same organization. Traditional membership has been dropping for more than a decade. We may need these other programs soon to subsidize the traditional program's existence!

Nothing wrong with reading a text without background information. Keeps liberal teachers from biasing their students, allowing the students to think for themselves. Of course the students will have to regurgitate the politically correct line when it comes time for grading because that's what the teacher learned to be correct in his or her indoctrination. The problem isn't conservatives reading Dick and Jane, the problem is commie pinko socialists who can't read and understand the basic text of the U.S. Constitution that specifically limits federal powers. There, can we be done calling names and quit with the divisive hyperbolic rhetoric now.

You're right. I assumed adult meant adult in a Troop but there is a 21-year old age limit. Isn't that silly.

Not as I understand it. The requirement for continuing membership in the order is to be a registered member of the BSA, not a registered member of a Boy Scout Troop. A boy has to be in a troop to get elected but could leave his Troop after completing the Ordeal and join a Crew or Ship at any time and still keep his OA membership active. So my understanding is an 18 year old could register as an adult in a Troop (ASM or USR), or as an adult-participant in a Crew or Ship and still be considered a youth for OA purposes. That said, I hear at the last NOAC they had housing for youth (<18), gray area (>= 18 but < 21) and adult (>=21). I'm assuming they had female and male housing for the latter two age classifications but don't know that for a fact. Maybe somebody who was there can help us out.

No bugs or tourists in the woods this time of year .

~~Unpaid volunteers committed to less than 30 days can provide clearances from their home state or county. So as a non-PA resident, if I want to bring a tour of youth to say Gettysburg, maybe spend the night camping, on my way to say DC, I and all the adults on the trip have to get the same clearances from our home state? What if we're just driving through?

This will be interesting to watch. I'm not too worried about the impact on the traditional programs because I suspect the intersection of the sets of interested kids is fairly small. Maybe it's a boost to traditional programs because it will weed out the nerds so the outdoorsmen can focus on outdoorsman stuff . Snarkiness aside, my gut reaction is it doesn't impact traditional membership by any significant amount. My local regional university, Northern Illinois is getting upwards of $600 for a week of STEM camp (http://www.niu.edu/stem/camps/index.shtml). I assume many Universities in America run something similar. If you look at the list of all their camps they have Exploring STEM through Art/Engineering/Sports/Nature/etc. Not sure how our local summer camps compete with even a regional university for kids who are interested in STEM. If a kid has interest and aptitude for STEM do you as a parent pay $300 for him to go to a scout camp to get STEM-like experiences or $600 to access University resources. If you have a girl with the aptitude the choice is made for you, at least in middle school. Not to mention at STEM camp they live in air conditioned dorms while at scout camp they are out in the heat, bugs, and dirt! The national labs around here have similar programs, however, the NIU and national lab programs all seem to be one-shot (one week, one weekend, one day) kinds of programs vs. something that runs all year. Regions that have access to those kinds of resources might be able to utilize them for program continuity in a STEMScout Lab. That might be a selling point for STEMScouts, "Send your kid to STEMScouts and we'll coordinate getting them to all the cool stuff for you!" I suppose the real question is whether STEMScouts will compete with in-school programs for kids time and parent's money. I think that is the tougher sell. Do I pay $150 to the BSA for a generic STEM program or do I pay an activity fee to have my kid join the HS robotics club, or JETS team or whatever else. Can I afford both? Do I really need to spend $150 to join STEMScouts and $600 for STEM Camp or just keep the $150 and be 25% of the way to the camp fee?

Just having a little fun exploring the edges a bit. Rick_in_CA, thanks for the link to the original article, it was a good read.

I'm not having fun at anybody's expense, just pointing out that it's OK today to be blatantly bigoted against one group of people in our society while being so concerned about others. Here's a few samples from this very board, just search for redneck in the search bar: JasonG172: Alcohol on the other hand is always a no no but even some of the higher ups wait till the boys go to bed! Sorry I am in RedNeck Country. Basementdweller: "I am not a redneck and I am mystified by those who think it is something to be proud of." He went on to say, "Let me see we have a few self proclaimed rednecks in the neighborhood.....White, use tobacco, drink cheap beer, listen to really loud country music" PackSaddle: A long time ago, one of my redneck buddies, obese, beer-guzzling, tobacco-drooling, unwashed, smelly, nearly bald, and profane.... I own the term redneck, as I understand it, and I'm proud of it. I'm tired of the term being use d to incorrectly identify "obese, beer-guzzling, tobacco-drooling, unwashed, smelly, nearly bald and profane" individuals. Anybody who disagrees with me is clearly a bigot.

Interesting, redneck, at least in my old dictionary, refers to "A member of the white rural laboring class, esp. in the southern United States." It becomes offensive slang when it's used as a caricature to insult the white rural laboring class as unintelligent. The difference is PC hypocrisy revels in calling those white rural folks names but gets offended at other words. So, since I'm offended at the way the term redneck is currently used DuctTape, and the fact that I grew up white, rural, poor and working in the fields, I expect you will strike that word from your vocabulary. I still get to watch and enjoy Jeff Foxworthy and Larry the Cable Guy. You however, do not. In fact, you should be so outraged and offended that you should immediately stop using the drug Prilosec, sell any stock you have in Proctor & Gamble, and petition all organizations you know to do the same for exploiting the white rural poor laboring class.

when PC is out of control, at last for me, is when we start doing things like changing the words to the "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn." Or radio stations cutting the audio track for the second verse of "Money for Nothing." When some offensive words become off limits to some people (e.g. rap lyrics use the n-word but white folks can't), while other offensive words (called anybody a redneck lately?) are given a pass and when historical literature starts being re-written to conform to current societal mores, we are treading a very dangerous path.