walk in the woods

So staff can wear a backpack water pump (i.e. simulated flame thrower) but kids can't use squirt guns because they are simulated fire arms?

In our council the popcorn prize was a super-soaker, two years ago.

Those arguments are already happening in the academy AZ, http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/03/01/medethics-2011-100411.full. Fetus, infants, infirmed, old, the more we dehumanize and devalue them the easier it is to eliminate them.

This is still true. I always find this discussion entertaining, watching people self-righteously pound their chests about how self-righteous other people are regarding knots.

In fairness if a youth becomes an OA member at 14 he not eligible for vigil until he's 17. At which point he's a year from leaving the program. So it's really no surprise now is it?

Crossover is a really clean date to move on. At every pack outing and event between now and then beat the drum a bit and offer to help until crossover. When that day comes move on with your son.

Technically the glass is always full, only the media filling it is different.

Or, the parent could just blow off the paperwork and go camping sans the BSA. Way too complicated an effort just to take a kid to camp. Maybe I'm just grouchy.

While I'll still stipulate to your statement about live births, why is that the only driving factor for the size of our audience?

OK. I'll stipulate to that. Target audience is the same size but membership is down 40%. Still an unpleasant picture.

Ultimately this debate has nothing to do with STEM Scouts or Learning for Life or Exploring or traditional scouting. Ultimately, this debate is about the BSA's mission. Are we an outdoor adventure organization for youth or are we a youth development organization? The world has changed in the last 50 years. The definition of family has changed, the definition of community has changed, there have been multiple rounds of disruptive technologies come and go, politics have changed, the demographics of the country have changed, parenting styles have changed (heck, what we used to call parent

Well, now we have a problem because there can't be two of us!

That said, we do have operating experience with just this idea in the Venturing program. Crews basically define their own uniforms with the official field uniform being optional. Why couldn't we push that model down a level? I've only dealt with a few crews and they've mostly used the lack of field uniform as a recruiting tool.

A decent quality green 3-button shirt with collar devices for rank and position. Blue jeans for pants and a troop ball cap. Low entry cost and easy enough for indoor and outdoor. Gets a kid uniformed for under $50.

Hard for me to say, but sure, why not. As I understand it the projects start in the fall and are displayed the following summer. FWIW, here are the rules for my local county fair, http://web.extension.illinois.edu/dkk/downloads/47740.pdf. It's a long boring document but you can see they do have a wide variety of project options to choose from. I see the 4-H has also now has Special Interest (SPIN) clubs. There's a shooting sports version starting in my area for example. Kind of sounds like Venturing. But, back on topic, what does all this say about uniforming as a method? LC asked h

4-H certainly has some traditional values (Head, Heart, Hands, Health) but none of our membership restrictions. I understand the program starts at 8-years old but there is a K-2 program that is separate from the main program. But even with that, at least in our rural area, their draw is the program's relevancy. I'm not involved in the program but do know a number of kids that are and I lost some potential scouts a few years back because the parents asked them to choose between 4-H and BSA. The kids that participate have a very wide range of program opportunities to pursue. Go to your loc

FWIW, the videos have already been posted to the Autism and Scouting facebook page.

I'm sorry but I haven't had a chance to watch the videos yet. The link Bad Wolf provided is the same organization that I noted as well. I think there is a relationship between how profoundly a child is affected because, if for no other reason, the parents have to get over their denial faster that parents of children that are more NT. That said, there are plenty who never get over their denial and simply disengage. Unfortunately, my experience is it is usually the father. the thing that goes unmentioned too often with the parents, and the reason you get the tears @@BDPT00, is that by

Yep. White shirt, black pants, tie are also part of the FFA uniform. But, all those things, once purchased, are multitaskers.

Yep, me too. On both the personal and willing to help front. There's a group on facebook called Autism and Scouting that has done some good work in putting together training. Mostly scouters with kids on the spectrum. They also adapted the IEP concept to scouting to help units work through some of the issues. I haven't seen their stuff in a while but it's a pre-built wheel for review.

Why were they trying to "fix" him. That may have been the first mistake.

This. Make room on the soap box. The biggest PITB I experienced over time are NT kids picking on those with special needs. Mine's 17 FWIW. I'll make an effort to review the videos when I have the time to dedicate to them.

! I was out there a couple years ago on a trip to DC. I bet my son that the trenches were probably still in place, much like a Civil War battlefield. He wasn't buying it. I had no real orientation to location so we didn't go look. Still a pretty place.

Eagledad, I'm going to challenge your statement just a little. I find that 13-14 year olds are more than happy to wear uniforms, basketball, baseball, football, soccer, FFA jackets, even drama club or band t-shirts. That goes for 13 - 14 and older for that matter. So, there's something about our uniforms that is different. I'd argue that ultimately it's a matter of where people put value, and people in this case is not adult leaders but rather the parents and the community in general. We've probably all seen parents drop $100 for a baseball uniform for one season and not want to purch

The 1977 Jamboree is pretty high on my list. I also remember the shows, eating buffalo for the first time, and cutting my finger open while whittling sitting out the rain in a tent! But, since Jambo77 is already taken second best memory is my ordeal. I may never forget being set down along the side of the trail and watching that torch walk off down the trail!