CubScoutJo

I think even if one does concentrate on the program of their own ship/troop/pack, this kind of "numbers game" by the DE's can end up being a detriment to scouting. What often happens is kids join one of the "struggling units" and if that unit doesn't have the program, they quit. They never check out the other "less struggling" unit or the unit with the good program. They think all units are the same. Think of the benefit to the children we serve if there were one strong unit, verses three struggling ones. Jo

At the beginning of the scout year, I play a little game with the scouts. I tell them that when the sign is up, that is a secret, silent signal for them to put their sign up too and pay attention to what is coming next. I specifically make a point of saying that it defeats the purpose of it being a "silent signal", if people are yelling "Signs Up", while they do it. Then I practice with them, by telling them "Okay, make as much noise as you can until you see my sign up and then stop making noise and put your sign up". Make a short game of it,doing it a few times, varying how long they can make noise between "signs". (Warning, they WILL make a lot of noise!) During a meeting or other activity, I've found that the best way to avoid having to say "signs up" is to put my sign up while catching the eye of at least one scout, and I kind of motion with my eyes for him to get the attention of another scout near him, and so on. Sometimes, you have to stand there with your sign up for several seconds, but usually someone will notice it without having to yell "Signs Up!" And then it can spread to the others. Jo

I think I know the answer to this question, but am I correct in that you would not count one 5 mile overnight backpacking trip for both of these requirements? ------------------------------------ Camping Merit Badge Requirement 9B: On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision: .......Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles..... Second Class Requirement 2b: Using a compass and a map together, take a 5-mile hike (or 10 miles by bike) approved by your adult leader and your parent or guardian.* Jo

The majority of our committee members also are quite involved in the "troop" aspects. They serve as chaperones, drivers, patrol mentors, and they sign off advancements on occasion. I can't imagine a troop not wanting the committee to be involved with the boys, as long as they have proper training and know what they should and should not do as far as boy-led concerns. Adult association is one of the methods of Boy Scouts. I feel the more adults they are exposed to the better. Plus, it makes them much more comfortable at BOR's. Jo

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- sweetspiritpamh writes: "I like the flyer that promotes getting to the troops web site where a potential recuits can really see in the privacy of their own home if its a group they might be interested in. Then when they truly see the fun they want to join.Then get them in to meet the guys and have a really FUN exciting 1st camp of the new school year. I may be bias but i believe that www.troop68.org has done a great job in this area." ---------------------------------------------- I agree with you there! Nice job on the website. If there was a troop like yours around here, I'd want my sons to join. Heck, I want to join that troop. An aside: Where did you get the personalized caribiners made up? Jo

I left out Ockanickon because my son went there with another troop. He really liked it, but I think the price is going to eliminate it from the search for his current troop. The families in our new city used to paying $200.00-$240.00 a week for camp. I don't know about the other two. I'm sure there are a lot of camps in PA. The ones I listed were just ones that I have already researched as to price & program and that were within a reasonable driving distance from us. (South central PA) But I'd be happy to hear about those ones you mentioned as well.(This message has been edited by CubScoutJo)(This message has been edited by CubScoutJo)

Can anyone provide first-hand review for any of the following Boy Scout camps: Camp Sinoquipe (MD) Camp Tuckahoe (PA) Heritage Scout Reservation (PA) Seven Mountains (PA) Camp Minsi (PA) Resica Falls (PA) I've been to all the websites and the programs all look good. Specifcally, I am most interested in what you thought of: Enthusiam of staff Quality of programs for older scouts Thoroughness and quality of teaching of merit badges (do they follow the letter of the merit badge requirements and teach them in a way that isn't "boring?) Portions and quality of food Quality of the "waterfront" be it pool or lake. Thank you in advance, Jo

The third example I mentioned was not from camp. I know of a couple other instances where this same thing has happenned with non-camp merit badge counselors. I guess my question is how far as adults should we go in checking up on these? Or should we be? As far as the ones earned at camp, I am very suspect about many of these. The Troop just got back from camp this weekend. The two camp related ones involved my sons. The only reason I know about the two mentioned was from talking to my sons. Are we to talk to all the boys who took merit badges to ask them if they feel they completed the requirements as signed? For my own sons, I did talk to my boys about it, and told them that they would have to decide if they felt they earned that part of the badge and if they did not, they should find another mb counselor and complete the requirements as worded. However, I'm not sure that their sense of right and wrong is developed enough to do that. I think they are happy that they have got them signed off. And as one of them told me, "the counselor said it was okay. As long as we answered one question in the discussion". I think they might not want to rock the boat either. After all, they are young kids. Like I said, I feel they are learning to take the easiest way possible. This is not a scouting trait. I am thinking that a good plan might be to discuss this with the scoutmaster who could then discuss this with the boys. Jo

Here's three examples that I can think of so far where merit badge counselors have been "subtracting requirements" 1. Fishing merit badge. Taken at camp, boy had no luck catching any fish, and therefore did not complete requirment #10 (catch 2, clean one) Counselor told the boy that as long as he caught two fish in the past two years, he could pass the requirement. (This is a new scout, so he wasn't even in boy scouts over the past two years, and he's never cleaned a fish) 2. Camping merit badge. 3, 4, 5a All are requirements that say to write a plan, make a chart and make a list. Scouts got these signed off at camp simply by participating in a group discussion, no writing was required. (another camp one) 3. Citizen in the Community: For 7c, scout was allowed to use a combination of several volunteer experiences to fulfil the 8-hour for an organization requirement. Some of the volunteer work was also used to count towards his rank advancement (double dipping?) and the scout did not have actual records of time spent, so no proof that he actually fulfilled 8 hours. I can probably come up with several more of these, but you get the point. What can I as a committee member do when these situations arise? Once the blue card is signed off by the counselor, must we take that blue card and award the badge even if the scout tells us these things as listed above? Should we even be asking the scout about his experiences in the merit badge to make sure they are being done correctly, or do we just take the merit badge counselors word for it? I'm frustrated because I tell my sons that they need to do the requirements as spelled out, but then the counselors let them slide by doing less than required. They are not learning that some things take effort, they are just learning to be lazy. Am I being to critical? Jo

http://www.scoutingspirit.com/ ALL Scouts & Scouters!! To Join the Journey down the Mississippi River The Fall Hurricanes that hit the 8 Southern councils have done more damage than we could imagine. The National Council $ Campaign is helping, but MORE HELP is Needed! This is where each Scout and Adult Volunteer is Essential---the Project at hand, is to help get scouts and camps back on their Feet----MATERIALS, Equipment, Uniforms, Supplies, are just a few of the needed items. Having the Headwater of the Mississippi in our council, what better way to get the Goods there, than Down the Mississippi River! We plan to start at the head waters with a canoe of essentials, then the trucks will roll! Trucks will make their way to the Scout Spirit Barge. Here precious, needed cargo will be loaded for the journey with stops at the Quad Cities, St. Louis, Memphis, and a Hearty Welcome in New Orleans! Councils along the river bend will be asked to participate in this Historic Event, by organizing relief items from their communities. The collected items will be added to the Scout Spirit at specific locations. This is an opportunity for Midwest Scouts to help in a direct manner. It is a chance to show the True Meaning of Scout Spirit and the power it has when many hands come together in an Overwhelming Support of those in need. Remembering that the Task is never ending or easy when done alone; but together the Midwest can make a difference. Voyageur Area Council will be ready to start the Scout Spirit moving and your support is needed to bring the equipment loaded Barge to New Orleans; where the Need is Real, the Hope has not faded, and the Dream is ready to be built! Please join fellow Scouts as we rally communities to support scouting with the needed materials. Dont forget to include Youth in the endeavors, as they will be sending items to other boys--like them. This is an Unbelievable Good Turn for each Scout--young or old--to participate in. The Adventure is HUGE, but each helpful participant will make Immeasurable Impact on the lives of so many others--Keeping the Spirit of Scouting burning in the hearts of ALL scouters throughout the Midwest. Dont miss the Scout Spirit, as it makes the Journey to New Orleans. Contact Rock Gilson for more information. Recent News: 5.24.2006 ScoutingSpirit.com goes national!

This isn't a mnemonic device or acronym, but here is a fun game I used to help my Webelos Den learn the order. Write each point of the law on a popsicle stick. Make two sets of these. Put each set at one end of the room or across a field if you are outside. Line up two teams for a relay type event. Take big dice and let one of the boys roll them. Sometimes only rolling one. So, if the number 6 comes up, the scout needs to race down to where the popsicle sticks are and grab the corresponding point of the law. In this case, kind. They do this as a relay and you keep track of who gets back first each time for points. Keep rolling until all points are finished. Sometimes you have to manipulate the dice so that the points of law that are left come up. I do this by only using one die and then either using the low number OR add 6 to the number if points 7-12 are left. The purpose of this game is not so the boys know the number of each point of the law. What it does is that forces the boys to recite the law in their head or aloud during the game to figure it out. Even if it isn't a boys' turn, he will recite it along with the others to help him get it faster. I always kept the popsicle sticks and a small set of dice in my bag of tricks. It is a good filler for between other activities. (but they do tend to like playing with the big dice, cause they like to throw them) This was probably one of their favorite games. Jo(This message has been edited by CubScoutJo)

It may be frustrating but I think it is a minor worry. A lot of Webelos Leaders go over those things once or twice, sign it off for AOL and then that's it. What should be done is the Webelos meeting should be similarly started with the Scout oath and the law. But since they are still cubs that doesn't always happen. I know with my Pack, the whole pack gets together before the den meetings and says the Cub Scout Oath and Law. It tended to get confusing for my Webelos even though I DID have them repeat the scout one later when we broke out to den meetings. For the Scout Badge, they actually do not have to have it memorized, but simply to "Understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath or Promise, Law, motto, and slogan, and the Outdoor Code" It's not until Tenderfoot that they are to memorize it and by then, I'm sure they will have begun saying it so much with the troop that there will be no problem. Jo Here's a related question. How many of your higher ranked boys have the Outdoor Code Memorized?

I've been a Webelos Leader twice (2 sons). One thing you might want to do is to get the boys together in the summer for some of these things, rather than wait until fall. The daylight and warm weather goes away quickly, I've found. In addition to those "outdoor badges" already mentioned here are two others to consider because they both can can be done in one session of about 1 1/2 - 2 hours, which gives the boys immediate gratification of earning a Webelos activity pin right away. Aquanaut: Great badge to do in the summer. You could do it at an outdoor pool. Handyman: With both my sons dens, I did this badge outside at one of the first meetings of the school year. Had a couple of dads bring their cars to the meeting and had them do the requirements like check the oil, change the tire, with the boys. The Webelos brought their bikes and some boy scouts came and helped them do the requirements that involved bikes. We did these requirements in "stations". You may want to mention to them that they could do a lot of the "Traveler" pin requirements during summer vacation as they go on trips and outings. JO

In Fall of 2004, I had three boys join my Webelos Den as 4th graders (they were all invited by my son). One of them stayed through the end of 4th grade and did not continue (due to sports), but the other two stayed all the way through to this year, earned their Arrow of Light and are now Boy Scouts. I think one good thing about joining in 4th grade is that the Webelos Program is a lot different from the lower ranks, and the new boys only have to learn the Webelos ways (leader signs off, not parent, etc) Also, because a lot of boys change to the tan uniform when they move to Webelos, the new boys don't really look any different (not having the lower rank badges). They just start out with the tan uniform and eventually sew their webelos badge on, just like the other guys who change to tan uniforms. Jo

It's really going to depend on the camp, so you might want to talk to someone who has been to your camp before. I've been to two different camps for three summers and each time, the camps were very good at providing lots of activities even in the evening. I'm guessing that with only three days, you are going to be pretty busy and will not have to bring many things for the boys to do during free time. Free time can be just that for them. I ended up bringing more than I needed, But here are some things that I did bring/do: -Board games and group games like pictionary. -I hid a treasure and filled it and gave them clues to find it. I simply left the note with the clues on a picnic table like it was left by some former explorer. -Pony beads and lanyard string. -Any kind of ball (football, kickball etc) to play with and, of course, frisbee's. -glow sticks -Ropes to practice knots with If you want you can carry a Webelos book around and if you have time, you could go tick off a requirement or two during down time. But be careful not to "overschedule". To tell you the truth most kids just liked to hang out during their minimal free time, most also brought books to read. Some liked to use their pocket knives to whittle sticks. (Make sure this is okay with the camp, if they have their whittling chip card) Jo

If you are losing it, then we need to look for it together. I'm seeing what you are seeing. Jo

Background: Son is currently in an adult run troop. There are only two troops in town, the other is also adult run, complete with bi-weekly merit badge classes. Next town over has quite a few troops, one of which I've found to be boy run, with the patrol method being used, patrol competitions, etc. Son is not adverse to changing troops since we only recently moved here and the troop he currently is in is a bit "clique-ish". He has no real friends there. However, going to the next town would involve a 35 minute drive, a different school district so none of the boys in the troop would be in the same school as my son, and scouting events and community involvement would be in a different community than the one we live in. I'm wondering if it would be worth sacrificing those conveniences to make a move to a boy-led troop? The troops in the current town aren't TERRIBLE, it's just that they are more like youth groups than places where my son will learn leadership skills. CubScoutJo

Wow, that stinks that they are mad at you. Don't quit over this. You could not have known that it was a big secret unless the one that mentioned it first told you it was. If the lad is moving, you won't have to deal with this particular family anymore anyhow. Dealing with separated parents can be tricky, but it isn't always as bad as this. There are many parents who truly do work together for their son. Just this month, I was pleased to see one of my Webelos walk into the B&G Banquet with his real dad. Then shortly after that, his stepdad and his mom came in and they all sat together for the evening. Jo

quote "Let's talk about something less controversial, like uniforms, sexual orientation, religion or politics" -------------- Okay, uniforms. How many of you Steeler fans wish they were wearing their black jerseys and not the white? Jo

I agree with Lisa. Advancement is only one piece of the puzzle and if they joined to be with their friends, then they should do well. You could concentrate on the "Boy Scout Joining Requirements" aspect of the AOL with all the boys and that way the ones that can earn the AOL will have that and the two that just joined will be able to quickly get the Scout rank when they are in Boy Scouts. Incidently, I have a 5th grade scout who joined in fourth grade but has never finished the Fitness Badge (Just won't do the parts that have to be done at home). I've mentioned it to him several times, but it just doesn't seem to be a big priority in his life. So he is the only one in the den who doesn't have his Webelos Badge and will probably not get his AOL, just for this one thing. But, yet he comes to nearly every meeting, takes part in all the activities with a good attitude and has fun with his friends. Sometimes, I think we get too hung up on this advancement stuff to see that it is STILL a good program even if every boy doesn't reach the highest heights! Jo

When I was a 17 year old Explorer Scout, I went to a "Winterfest Weekend" with my post. There, I met a boy from another Explorer post about 30 minutes or so away from where I lived. We will celebrate 20 years of marraige the end of this month! DH was in the military until just last year, so I have been the more involved Scouter over the past 6 years. I started as a Tiger Parent and moved to Den Leader when my first son was a Wolf. Have been a den/Webelos Leader ever since, currently serving as my youngest son's Webelos Leader and also my older son's Troop Committee chair. DH is just starting to get involved. I "volunteered" him as the Committee Chair for the pack and he's been doing a good job with that, but really likes the Boy Scout side of things better. I think the jury is out on whether it has brought us closer. Maybe now that he is out of the Navy, it may. Jo

I know for me, it is because sometimes I may want to discuss a particular problem without identifying the persons involved. If I used my real name, and the parties involved (or others in the unit who may NOT be involved)happened upon such a post, it would be pretty obvious who it was about. (We are a small pack). I use a screen name to keep those options open. To get help on a situation without causing it to become gossip. Jo Edited to add: I also sometimes mention my sons and that is also to protect them as well. I went back and read one of my posts where I mentioned that my son has no friends in his troop. Not something that I'd want someone in his troop to read with my real name on it. (This message has been edited by CubScoutJo)

Welcome! I'm on my second time around as Den Leader as well. But I've only been leader of my youngest's den since Webelos since mine are only 2 years apart. You'll have a long tenure as a Cub Scout Leader. Did you know you can apply for "Veteran Status" after 5 years? http://www.keystonebsa.org/_forms/veteran.pdf Looking forward to information you will have to share with us. Jo Webelos Den Leader Boy Scout Mom

What you need is someone within the pack who believes in the Day Camp program and would like to see as many boys as possible take part in it. That person will then be the liaison between the pack and the council. But it needs to be a person who truly has an interest and is willing to talk it up at several meetings and individually as well. ("Hey, Johnny, have you thought about attending Day Camp?" Talk about what some of the activities were the year before, show the patch, talk about the fact that they may complete some advancement requirements, etc. Just be excited about the program. Also, this person will be the contact point for parents who may have questions or may want to volunteer. And, like the previous poster mentioned, that person needs to make sure that parents know that their son can attend day camp even if his den does not. I served in this role for Webelos resident camp last year and we had 9 out of 11 Webelos attend camp and 4 parents volunteer which I think is purty good. CubScoutJo

I think the most important consideration for keeping him in the Bear Den is something that would happen that you mentioned in your first post: "...he loses the group identity of being in a den of his peers". Instead, he will be your older son's little brother in the den of Webelos. This could be detrimental to both the older AND the younger son. My younger son was also was held back. He is now 11 and a Webelos 2, so he also was 9 when he was a Bear. And, like your son, he has an older brother who is two grades ahead of him in school. Keeping him with his grade-mates eliminated any embarrassing questions that may have been asked had we put him in a den of fourth graders when he was only in third grade. No one really knows how old he is. Also, three of his den-mates are in his same class in school now and that makes it nice for them to get to meet and work together on Den meeting night. During den meetings, they talk about their teacher, what's going on at school, etc. Keeping him with his grade-mates also gave him the chance to "SHINE" with his own den. He was not compared to his older brother.. he had his own friends and his own "gang" to hang out with at Pack events. Conversely, his older brother had his own friends in his den, as well, without having little brother around. Another reason for not trying to rush him up to Webelos is that the Webelos Rank is a bit more involved than the lower ranks. Some of the required activity badges such as fitness and citizen require a good amount study, writing and keeping track of things over a period of a month that he may or may not be ready for. Are there leaders for both the Webelos II den and the Bear Den or are you the leader for one of them? If there is another leader of at least one of the dens, I agree with the previous poster that you could limit your involvement with that den temporarily (until your oldest crosses over to Boy Scouts). You can still be involved at the pack level for both sons, volunteering for pack outings, etc. And you can still be involved with both sons, helping them with requirements at home, which is especially important in the Bear rank. At the Webelos level, in preparation for Boy Scouts, more activities are done with the den and signed off by the leader, so maybe that is the den you could let be run by another leader, with you stepping in to lead the Bear Den. Or does your pack have a requirement that all parents must attend every den meeting (I know some packs do have that). If I were in your shoes, I think the only way I would bend the rules slightly and put him in a Webelos Den as a third grader is if otherwise, my son would be the only Bear in the pack. CubScoutJo