acco40

As a Scouter who works directly with the youth (as Scoutmaster) I agree with Kudu that I "teach" by setting an example with my actions (words don't mean much to teenagers). I make absolutely no attempt to "teach" the Scout about religion or religions - that is the duty of his family. The only acception to this is that I will instruct the boys on various traditions and customs certain religions may have and that it is our choice to determine if we wish to be respectful of those traditions and customs even if we are not members of that religious community.

Merlyn, to become a Scout or a Scouter one needs to fill out an application. On the application is the DoRP. Program Policies abridged by acco40 The program is flexible, but major departures from BSA methods and policies are not permitted. As a parent, you should be aware that Leadership is restricted to qualified adults who subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle, the Scout Oath, the Scout Law, and the BSA Standards of Leadership. The Boy Scouts of America recognizes the importance of religious faith and duty; it leaves sectarian religious instruction to the members religious leaders and family. Members who do not belong to a units religious chartered organization shall not be required to participate in its religious activities. Excerpt from the Declaration of Religious Principle The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership. Policy of Nondiscrimination Youth membership in the Boy Scouts of America is open to all boys and young adults who meet the joining requirements. Now what are the joining requirements? Boy Scout Troop Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18. 1. Complete the application (sign your name, indicating approval). 2. Give the completed application and fees to the Scoutmaster. 3. Secure a copy of the Boy Scout Handbook and complete the joining requirements as listed. (which includes: Understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath or Promise, Law, motto, and slogan, and the Outdoor Code.) So basically, all a Scout promises to do is do their duty to God (Oath) and be reverent (Law). So, if I was a conniving lawyer (is that redundant? ) I could state that: I see no such requirement for a youth to suscribe to the DoRP. A Scout may feel his duty to God is the same as my duty to Santa Clause - nothing. And to "be reverent" does not tell the Scout what to revere. Yes, the BSA will put out position papers, many will give you their opinions but the vast majority of Scouters will not look for ways to boot the boy out but try to keep the boy in the program so that they derive benefits from the program.

Scouting is FOR ALL BOYS. Just, for some boys, Scouting ain't for them. And that's OK, too. Merlyn - I know where you are coming from but what I think "Andy" is trying to communicate is that as a Scoutmaster, we don't go fishing to see what the religious beliefs of the boys are (some do, but that is another story). I think Andy is just spinning another "don't ask, don't tell" type of response. That may frustrate purists - like yourself or hard core religious litmus test scouters - but for the vast majority of pragmatists, it is how we operate. For myself, I don't like the Beavahish quality of Andy's prose but we all have our problems and I guess that is one (of many) of mine. (This message has been edited by acco40)

I believe that merit badge counseling, scoutmaster conferences and boards of review should be held due to the fact that a scout has requested one. The scout gets the training & experience of interacting with adults, learns responsibility, possibly phone manners and the realization that if he calls the troop advancement chair for a BOR "now" because the COH is in two days that the "be prepared" part needs a little work. Having set times for BORs is convenient for the adults but the goals and aims of the program is not convenience for adults.

I forgot the details but at one time something like meritbadge.net got a porn site and meritbadge.com got useful Scout information. Yes, the internet is a terrible thing to waste.

Nope, we are not electing a vise president (my vote would go to Tim the tool man). But as for a vice president campaigning with a 72 year old who has dreams of a second term if possible, I most certainly will let his choice of running mate influence my choice for president. Yes, senators earmark funds, not governors. And check out what McCain states about the earmarks that Obama has made while senator and then check out what Obama did earmark and put that in your pipe and smoke it (so to speak). Let the mud flinging begin!

Driving around Amish country the past weekend I notice many proud Vigil member displaying his OA membership with a sign on the back of their horse drawn buggy. Yes, no problem with guests just get "clearance" in advance to avoid disruption.

George Carlin had a funny bit about the "pride" of being Irish, Jewish, etc. He said why should someone be proud of something they did nothing to obtain - like your DNA? I think he makes a valid point. So from a "religious" perspective, I view being Jewish as one who believe in Judaism. I'm aware not all agree. Therefore, someone like Sammy Davis Jr. can be Jewish. Merlyn, I disagree with your last statement. One born to a Catholic mother (or Jewish mother) could be Islamic, Protestant or many other religions. And speaking of humor, one of my favorite quotes by Robin Williams I believe, is "Never buy gribnits from a Moyel, they're so chewy." Or is it Mohel?

It is also important to note that the flag in any form, whether it be a flag, patch, or postal stamp, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE, THEY ARE ALL TO BE TREATED THE SAME. Well, at least in the U.S. Flag Code ("FC")it says so. Please enlighten me on this subject. I have found many web sites that state similar claims (usually referencing section 3) but I can't find it in the flag code myself. Maybe I'm just dense? United States Code Title 4 Chapter 1 The Flag 1. Flag; stripes and stars on The flag of the United States shall be thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white; and the union of the flag shall be forty-eight stars [Note that sec. 2 which follows provides for additional stars. Today the flag has fifty stars representing the fifty states Webmaster], white in a blue field 2. Same; additional stars On the admission of a new State into the Union one star shall be added to the union of the flag; and such addition shall take effect on the fourth day of July then next succeeding such admission 3. Use of flag for advertising purposes; mutilation of flag Any person who, within the District of Columbia, in any manner, for exhibition or display, shall place or cause to be placed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, drawing, or any advertisement of any nature upon any flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America; or shall expose or cause to be exposed to public view any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign upon which shall have been printed, painted, or otherwise placed, or to which shall be attached, appended, affixed, or annexed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, or drawing, or any advertisement of any nature; or who, within the District of Columbia, shall manufacture, sell, expose for sale, or to public view, or give away or have in possession for sale, or to be given away or for use for any purpose, any article or substance being an article of merchandise, or a receptacle for merchandise or article or thing for carrying or transporting merchandise, upon which shall have been printed, painted, attached, or otherwise placed a representation of any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign, to advertise, call attention to, decorate, mark, or distinguish the article or substance on which so placed shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $100 or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or both, in the discretion of the court. The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America. 4. Pledge of allegiance to the flag; manner of delivery The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute. [see Congressional Notes re use of "under God."] 5. Display and use of flag by civilians; codification of rules and customs; definition The following codification of existing rules and customs pertaining to the display and use of the flag of the United States of America be, and it is hereby, established for the use of such civilians or civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments of the Government of the United States. The flag of the United States for the purpose of this chapter shall be defined according to title 4, United States Code, Chapter 1, Section 1 and Section 2 and Executive Order 10834 issued pursuant thereto. 6. Time and occasions for display It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness. The flag should be hoisted briskly and lowered ceremoniously. The flag should not be displayed on days when the weather is inclement, except when an all-weather flag is displayed. The flag should be displayed on all days, especially on New Year's Day, January 1 Inauguration Day, January 20 Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday, third Monday in January Lincoln's Birthday, February 12 Washington's Birthday, third Monday in February Easter Sunday (variable) Mother's Day, second Sunday in May Armed Forces Day, third Saturday in May Memorial Day (half-staff until noon), the last Monday in May Flag Day, June 14 Father's Day, third Sunday in June Independence Day, July 4 Labor Day, first Monday in September Constitution Day, September 17 Columbus Day, second Monday in October Navy Day, October 27 Veterans Day, November 11 Thanksgiving Day, fourth Thursday in November Christmas Day, December 25 and such other days as may be proclaimed by the President of the United States the birthdays of States (date of admission) and on State holidays. The flag should be displayed daily on or near the main administration building of every public institution. The flag should be displayed in or near every polling place on election days. The flag should be displayed during school days in or near every schoolhouse. 7. Position and manner of display The flag, when carried in a procession with another flag or flags, should be either on the marching right; that is, the flag's own right, or, if there is a line of other flags, in front of the center of that line. The flag should not be displayed on a float in a parade except from a staff, or as provided in subsection (i) of this section. The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender. No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations. The flag of the United States of America, when it is displayed with another flag against a wall from crossed staffs, should be on the right, the flag's own right, and its staff should be in front of the staff of the other flag. The flag of the United States of America should be at the center and at the highest point of the group when a number of flags of States or localities or pennants of societies are grouped and displayed from staffs. When flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States flag's right. When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace. When the flag of the United States is displayed from a staff projecting horizontally or at an angle from the window sill, balcony, or front of a building, the union of the flag should be placed at the peak of the staff unless the flag is at half-staff. When the flag is suspended over a sidewalk from a rope extending from a house to a pole at the edge of the sidewalk, the flag should be hoisted out, union first, from the building. When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street. When the flag is displayed over the middle of the street, it should be suspended vertically with the union to the north in an east and west street or to the east in a north and south street. When used on a speaker's platform, the flag, if displayed flat, should be displayed above and behind the speaker. When displayed from a staff in a church or public auditorium, the flag of the United States of America should hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the position of honor at the clergyman's or speaker's right as he faces the audience. Any other flag so displayed should be placed on the left of the clergyman or speaker or to the right of the audience. The flag should form a distinctive feature of the ceremony of unveiling a statue or monument, but it should never be used as the covering for the statue or monument. The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, or the death of a member of the Armed Forces from any State, territory, or possession who dies while serving on active duty, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff, and the same authority is provided to the Mayor of the District of Columbia with respect to present or former officials of the District of Columbia and members of the Armed Forces from the District of Columbia. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection the term "half-staff" means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff; the term "executive or military department" means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5, United States Code; and the term "Member of Congress" means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico. When the flag is used to cover a casket, it should be so placed that the union is at the head and over the left shoulder. The flag should not be lowered into the grave or allowed to touch the ground. When the flag is suspended across a corridor or lobby in a building with only one main entrance, it should be suspended vertically with the union of the flag to the observer's left upon entering. If the building has more than one main entrance, the flag should be suspended vertically near the center of the corridor or lobby with the union to the north, when entrances are to the east and west or to the east when entrances are to the north and south. If there are entrances in more than two directions, the union should be to the east. 8. Respect for flag No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor. The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise. The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free. The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general. The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way. The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling. The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature. The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything. The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart. The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning 9. Conduct during hoisting, lowering or passing of flag During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passing in a parade or in review, all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes. 10. Modification of rules and customs by President Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation United States Code Title 36 301. National anthem; Star-Spangled Banner The composition consisting of the words and music known as The Star-Spangled Banner is designated the national anthem of the United States of America. Conduct during playing During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart; men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed. 302. National motto "In God we trust" is the national motto. 303. National floral emblem The flower commonly known as the rose is the national floral emblem. 304. National march The composition by John Philip Sousa entitled "The Stars and Stripes Forever" is the national march. 901. Service flag and service lapel button Individuals Entitled To Display Service Flag. A service flag approved by the Secretary of Defense may be displayed in a window of the place of residence of individuals who are members of the immediate family of an individual serving in the Armed Forces of the United States during any period of war or hostilities in which the Armed Forces of the United States are engaged. Individuals Entitled To Display Service Lapel Button. A service lapel button approved by the Secretary may be worn by members of the immediate family of an individual serving in the Armed Forces of the United States during any period of war or hostilities in which the Armed Forces of the United States are engaged. License To Manufacture and Sell Service Flags and Service Lapel Buttons. Any person may apply to the Secretary for a license to manufacture and sell the approved service flag, or the approved service lapel button, or both. Any person that manufactures a service flag or service lapel button without having first obtained a license, or otherwise violates this section is liable to the United States Government for a civil penalty of not more than $1,000. Regulations. The Secretary may prescribe regulations necessary to carry out this section.

When Sarah Palin was announced as the Veep choice in Dayton I noticed in many of the press photos an adult with a Scouting uniform on in the crowd behind her and Senator McCain. No bid deal I said. Then, when McCain and Palin held a political rally in my neighborhood, I noticed Scouts with their uniform on in attendance. Again, okay but it made me uneasy. Then, throughout the rally, the Scouts would hold up campaign banners - mostly McCain/Palin placards. Well, that crossed the line for me. Scouts and Scouters should not use the uniform to promote politicians.

An important distinction that should be made that I think many are missing - their is no flag on the BSA uniform. There is a flag emblem - a big difference. As such, it is not treated the same as the US Flag.

I liked the editorial cartoon in the paper this morning that had a picture of republican "fatcats" always male, white, middle aged, in their stereotypical suits with big fat cigars lamenting that the democrats had the nerve to bring up Kartrina again and again during the RNC all the while each of them were wearing at least ten 9/11 pins apiece.

I guess Rush and his use of Femi-nazi proves once and for all that his mind is empty. The term politically correct is pejorative. Initally such terms as "redman", "Indian" etc. were used and some whom were branded with such a label preferred adjectives such as Native American. Those with thick skulls, scoffed at such nonsense and labelled it as politcally correct. Now the term is used in a pejorative sense in a defensive manner by many. Some use words to inflame and incite. Some don't. I have contempt with those who seek to incite and inflame and then use PC as a defense. Terms like "right wing nut jobs" believe, "flaming liberal tree huggers" believe and simply stating what "liberal democrats" or "conservative republicans" believe are inflamatory. Why not simply state an idea and then either defend it or debunk it? Reason, that would require thought! I can argue with certain planks of the republican party platform or democratic platform - those are concrete things but to say "democrats believe" or "republicans believe" is usually the made by simpletons. All democrats and all republicans believe ignoring sentence above in "tax and spend" and "gun control." The real question is how much. It just seems that far to few really want to discuss issues.(This message has been edited by acco40)

It baffles me how so many forum members are under the impression that an Eagle Court of Honor is not a unit function. It isn't a unit function. Technically, it is a National Court of Honor because, even after the Scout passes his Eagle Board of Review, the national BSA office must approve the Eagle Scout application.

Our US senator was informed by the police and press that her husband was caught with a prostitute in a local hotel. As is policy (right or wrong) the police do not prosecute the "john" if he acts as a witness against the prostitute. So, should the senator be judged by the actions of her husband? Should Mrs. Palin be judged by the actions of her daughter? I hope that she sees the fallacy of her sex-ed beliefs. I don't really think the GOP party platform will contain anything about it "being A-Ok" for 17 year olds to get pregnant - married or not. It used to be that divorce placed a scarlet letter on women. Just because Bristol was not sent away to the "lauderies" doesn't mean that her family or anyone else condoned her behavior but ...

OGE - I don't proclaim to understand why our laws seem so absurd. Yes, you are correct, how a fetus is observed in the eyes of the law does not seem to be consistent. The best "pro-life" argument, in my mind is that trying to pick a timetable for when a lump of cells becomes a legally protected entity is difficult to defend. I can always present the one day earlier or one day later argument. For example, if trimesters are used - why legal on Wednesday but not on the following Thursday (assuming trimester ended on Wednesday). Conversely, those who are pro-life/anti-abortion with the 'except for' caveats - health of the mother, rape, incest, health affliction du jour, etc. For myself, I'd like to see a politician come out and clearly state "I don't know" when asked about the issue.

I guess Mrs. Palin believes in the sanctity of life with caveats. Right now, a fetus is not an unborn child wrt our legal system - can't take a tax credit for it, can legally abort under certain circumstances, etc. So, we can argue about the morality but the legality is fairly black and white. I'm guessing that if one believes that capital punishment is "moral" (no doubt that it is legal and is not legal depending on which state in the USA) and should be legal then they believe that humans should decide who lives and dies. The argument is just in deciding the criteria of such decisions. As for myself, I could never understand those who proclaim to be "pro-life & pro-capital punishment" or "pro-choice and against capital punsihment." Making such blanket statements seems mutually exclusive to me.

I agree with Barack Obama on this one. Mrs. Palin is running as a Vice Presidential nominee, not her daughter. The actions of her chidren are a non-issue. If someone wants to question Sarah Palin or McCain's decision to add her to the ticket - how about questioning the decision of a 43 year old woman to have a baby? Did daughter Bristol decide to emulate mom? The belief that global warming is not human caused. The belief that creationism should be taught in public schools. Her admitted marijuana usage. Her belief in abstinence only sex education in schools. Pro-life belief - oops, sorry - she believes in capital punishment. I'm not trying to glorify or bash her selection but the actions of her daughter should not be where the debate goes.

Just to reiterate what many have already indicated. Alcohol is treated like tobacco (a controlled substance) in that adults may consume but not in the presence of youth members. Uniform on or off is not a issue. Eagle Courts of Honor are organized by the Eagle Scout and his family. While true that many units have long standing traditions, the ECOH is still a family event. As a Scoutmaster, if I was asked to participate in an ECOH where alcohol was being served in the presence of Scouts, I would decline. Not to highjack this thread but a few years ago, our troop attended church services at our CO (at Episcopal church) for Scout Sunday. It just so happens, that no current members of our troop are members of that church. When communion was held, we were all asked to participate and all of the Scouts and Scouters - while in uniform, did consume alcohol. The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members. Adult leaders should support the attitude that young adults are better off without tobacco and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants. All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants.

Some patches are used solely to mark an event - such as camporee patches. Some are a mix - like OA flaps. My OA flap commemorates the World Championship that the Detroit Pistons won in 2004. I wear it on my uniform and feel no guilt that I have never been a member of the Detroit Pistons organization. So, Twocubdad, if your son wants to wear the OA flap of his choice and he is a current member of the OA have him go ahead - afterall, he didn't have puppies did he?

Today, labels are usually applied in a pejorative nature. Also, labels used to simplify things too much. What is a conservative? Someone who wants less government involvement in peoples lives? Someone who wants to "conserve" the satus quo? If so, why is it considered "liberal" to be "pro-choice" because today, abortions may be obtained legally (the status quo) and implementing anti-abortion laws would be adding government restrictions on individuals? So, there are legitimate arguments both for and against making abortions in this country more or less restrictive but labelling those arguments as liberal or conservative is really not conducive to educated debate. Packsaddle - looks like I may have hit a nerve with my comments about health care in this country. Do you disagree with any part of my post?

Gents - I know what they should or need or could do. My question is, if they do nothing, what is their status wrt the BSA?

A troop recharters in January. A Scout is registered for the year. He turns 18 during that year. He files no additional paperwork. After turning 18 does he automatically become a Scouter (i.e. registered adult)? If so, at what position? If not, does he become a non-registered member in the eyes of the BSA?

Facts: Health care cost money & resources. The United States of America does not have an unlimited amount of money & resources. Therefore, unlimited health care is an impossibility. Now, the question is do you feel a basic level (or minimum level, or moderate level - you can decide what level) of health care should be a right or a commodity to be bought? I'll say this, health care is the only commodity that I purchase that I have no idea of the price when I make the purchase. The cause in the insurance industry.

Whoa Nelly! The first person I would have a discussion with is not the Scout but with the advancement coordinator. The comment was not addressed to you and I don't know (and possibly you don't know?) what type of relationship this Scout has with the advancement chair. There was a Scout in our unit that had what I would call an unusual relationship with his father. He was the oldest child and only son. His father was a rather jovial type always wise cracking and fooling around but a good hearted and good natured man. They father and son had more of a friend to friend relationship in their banter. The son would call the dad "fat", dad call his son a "jackass" and on and on. It was acceptable in their household and the son never used that type of language with the other adults or Scouts. But as you can guess many of the adults did not want their sons exposed to this type of behavior. As the Scoutmaster I was aware of their concerns but also aware my limitations in interferring with what some would call a family matter. My tactic was to let the Scout and father know that how they communicated with each other was their own business but when done around the other Scouts they should be aware that many parents did not want their sons to emulate that behavior and try and tone it down so to speak. Well, before I'd get too ruffled about the paycheck/cyanide comments, I want to make sure I understood the dynamics between those individuals first.