acco40

To be a Scouter (adult, post 18 member of the BSA) one has to fillout an application, pay a fee and be approved by the BSA which will conduct a background check. To be an adult member of a unit, in addition to the above, the Charter Organization of the unit (Troop, Pack, Crew, Ship, etc.) needs to approve the individual for the specific unit position (committee member, committee chair, scoutmaster, assistant scoutmaster, etc.). If one is not registered with the BSA and approved by the CO, one is not a committee member. What are the benefits? None to too numerous to mention depending on your point of view. IMO, the benefits are endless.

You hit the nail on the head. Some requirements do specifically state to show, demonstrate and/or tell. "Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope." - A Scout would need to actually whip and fuse the ends of rope to complete this requirement. "Explain the rules of safe hiking, both on the highway and cross-country, during the day and at night." - A Scout would need to vebalize the rules to complete this requirement. Note, it doesn't say he needs to memorize them! "Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the Scout Oath, Law, motto, and slogan." - A Scout would need to verbalize the Oath, Law, motto and slogan with no aids. In short, do what the requirements says! How simple.

To emphasize what BW has stated (emphasis is mine) The three most important responsibilites for SPLs are... 1. To chair the Patrol Leaders Council using a WRITTEN agenda prepared with the help of the Scoutmaster. 2. To run troop meetings and other events with a WRITTEN agenda prepared with the help of the Patrol Leaders Council. 3. To delegate duties and responsibilities to other Junior Leaders. I can't emphasize enough that a good written agenda is a godsend. I don't know what it is but to get the SPL, ASPL, PLs, etc. to actually write anything down and then keep track of it is a continual struggle. Also, to reiterate some of BW's points, they tell the SMs and SAs, never do for a boy what he can do for himself. I think for SPLs; never do for a patrol what the PL(s) and patrol can do for itself, may be a good piece of advice. Enjoy yourself!

Have not made travel plans just yet, but Striclty for Scoutmasters in August (15-21) in all probability. Can't wait.

Sorry, double post.(This message has been edited by acco40)

I am not privy to the latest intelligence reports so what I am about to post is based on ignorance on my part but here goes ... My life has changed dramatically since 9/11. However, it is mostly due to changes that my government has made and not to my personal fears. I work in the defense industry and my workplace no has a nice new fence complete with razor wire and some new guard shacks. When I do business at various military installations, I have to bob and weave around concrete barriers, wait, remove my shoes when I fly, wait, submit to various inspections, wait, pay a "security fee" for every flight I take (non-refundable I might add), ... In short, the terrorists have won if their objective was to alter our style of life. Does the "orange" alert change my actions? No, not unless it is forced upon me. Now, IMO, all of these security measures have been done to placate the populous and not t oincrease our level of security. We essentially have open borders. Heck, we can't even protect our borders from an invasion of Canadian cows, much less terrorists. By the way, you do know how Canada was named don't you. A bunch got together and started throwing out possible letters. How about a "C", eh? "N" eh? "D" eh? The American scribe then printed it out, CaNaDa! Hope you had a wonderful boxing day!

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Sorry, I can't take everything at face value because with you being involved with "Pack A", I'm sure your glasses are slightly tinted. However, some troops and packs do go "by the book" and suffer from "rogue" units with respect to membership. Just remember, size isn't everything. Have I not heard that somewhere before? One can follow the BSA guidelines and still have much leeway to shape the program to their particular units. Good luck.

The Beatles were a collection of four individuals. Stating that "the Beatles" were atheists is like saying The New York Times is a Democrat. It is ludicrous. Like almost all individuals, they experienced growth and maturity as time went on. Look at how John raised Sean as opposed to Julian. George Harrison (certainly was NOT an atheist) stated that he sought success but never fame. The boys became wildly successful and popular in their early twenties. Three were raised by single parents. They all had their foibles but I can honestly say (like Levis and Disney) they greatly added to the beauty and enjoyment of my life. Heck, I firmly believe Lord Baden Powell was gay. So what? That doesn't diminish the positive effect that Scouting has had world wide and will continue to have for many years to come. Come on people. Get a real life. Remove those chips from your shoulders. Living in Michigan (which just became the 10th state in the US to declare that it would not discriminate against individuals wrt sexual orientation) has exposed me to the "buy American" campaigns. Speilberg movies can be good or bad. Same with Disney, Levis, Ford, Toyota, and on and on. Why such hatred and venom? Look at the stupid arguments everyone has had about the "my" argument. Does BW make a valid point about overbearing SMs and the possibility that language influences and sometimes exposes behavior? Yes. Did he maybe do it in somewhat accusatorial (is that a word?) manner? Maybe. Come on people, let it go! This world is not filled with saints. Don't go looking for them.

Foxes covorting with Beavers! Sacre Bleu! What is the world coming to? Everyone knows, da Bears, da best! Ed, sorry if I came on to strong. Have a great holiday. I wasn't showing much Christmas spriit was I?

I realize that Ed. "I know that the recepient chooses how they would like to receive the beads. I'm just interested in how your area traditionally handles these ceremonies." I was polling individuals to get ideas. Heck, I've known some who just stated "mail em to me."

Rooster, what no diatribe about accidents being the work of God? BW, I like your example. When I was going through my ordeal for OA we were led around in silence, in the dark through the trails at one of our council camps. For those of you who went through the ordeal, you know the drill. Well I was about 50th in line of a single file line of about 80 adults and youth. As I'm walking quietly, five feet behind the one in front of me my shin strikes something. After we come to an area and are allowed to sit I roll up my pant leg and find a bloody mess. Well comes the night where we sleep under the stars and the next morning in the light of day I see a big mess on my left leg. Not much to be done except keep it clean. After the camp medical "officer" blanches when I show it to her she cleans it up. Later I wander over to where it happened I see that there was some new construction about fifty feet away from our path but right in the path way sticking up about 18 inches was a steel reinforcing rod. My shin hit it just right so that it scraped it good. Four months later I'm thankful I have not had an infection (at that for summer camp my doctor gave me a tetanus shot) but I still have a lump and ghastly discoloration. One can argue about the placement of the rod, the intelligence of walking around at night in the dark, yadda, yadda, yadda, but when a group of volunteers get together like BW mentioned, much safety precautions just fall through the crack. Yes, some of the OA activities have some real safety challenged folks!

How are your unit, district, council Wood Badge bead presentations traditionally done? In over six years of attending our districts roundtable, I've never seen one presentation done at a roundtable. I have seen one at the unit level and one during a Scout Leader Specific training class (at night around the campfire). At another district in our council, the presentations are almost universally done at the monthly roundtables. I've heard opinions that the presentation really means more to the adults than the boys (especially for Cubs) because they really don't understand the Wood Badge course itself. I know that the recepient chooses how they would like to receive the beads. I'm just interested in how your area traditionally handles these ceremonies.

TwoCubDad, I think you are correct. In the BSA, units are "owned" by the CO. This is a very foreign concept to outsiders. I know someone at work (male) who questioned, "What do you mean that the Troops are owned by the Church, doesn't the BSA own the Troops or better yet, the Troop own itself?" I gave the worn out franchise example but it did not make sense to him. The GS don't follow that mold. I'm no expert, but I think the Troops are "owned" by the councils. That is why they seem to be more top-down structure than the BSA, because they are! I'm not saying that this is good or bad, it just is. One of the problems of the BSA with its CO approach is that I believe Troops take on too much of a reflection of the SM and that is why you get such variation in the Troops with respect to MBs in troop meetings, flaunting of the rules if the adult leadership doesn't like them, etc. It does get to loosey goosey for me sometimes. The BSA has laid out a great program, voluteers should strive to deliver it.

Don't forget to spend time with your "family" family this holiday season. I know of some dedicated Scouters who spend more time with their BSA family than their own! Keep the faith, don't forget your doing it for the boys and not yourself, play nice, have fun and show Scout Spirit in your everyday life! Happy holidays!

EagleIn Ky - excuse me. I believe you owe me an apology. Exactly where do I accuse you of running "inquisition" BORs? What I may venture is that you may be compounding the problem by making such a big deal out of the BOR. For Tenderfoot it should be a piece of cake. Don't try to coach them through it. It's like telling them "it won't hurt a bit" in the doctors office. It only scares them more. Better yet, only bring it up at the end the SM conference. Ask the boy if he has any questions about the BOR. Tell him it should not be much different than what he just went through with you (assuming you are the SM or the SM conference giver).

One of the methods of Scouting is "association with adults." No Scout should have a BOR before he has had a SM conference. One to the topics I discuss with boys seeking Tenderfoot is what to expect at a BOR. The fear of the unknown is then slayed. MY TASK, not the boys, it to make sure he is at ease with me (the SM) and with the BOR. Well before the BOR the boy should have had contact with the SA assigned to his NSP. If he was a Cub Scout, interaction with his den leader and cubmaster should have calmed his nerves. By the way, I always have an SA give my son(s) ther SM conference for the ranks up to Star so they learn from the association with adults who are not mom and dad. I don't think the kids are spooked about talking to "strange" adults (they shouldn't be) but just by the fact that they don't know what a BOR is all about. Heck, the kids I've encountered in my travails rarely show any respect to adults much less fear! (typed only half in jest).

Girl Scout image - elementary age (K-5) girls who sell cookies, candies and calendars and who do arts & crafts and meetings and maybe an occasional horse ride. Cub Scout image - elementary age (K-5) boys who are rambunctious, race pinewood derby cars, do arts and crafts and sell popcorn. Boy Scout image - middle school age boys who don't quite fit in with the "cool" crowd who camp and learn to tie knots. Oh, and wear those antiquated uniforms. I am aware of the error of these perceptions but like most, there is a grain of truth to them. Girls Scouts can be a wonderful program but peer pressure and sometimes the lack of a diversified outdoor program will make the girls drop out or join the BSA Venture program. Also, the Girl Scouts are not quite as "old fashioned" (some would say more PC) than the BSA and because of the perceived vulnerability of young women/girls, they have much more restrictive requirements with respect to safety and youth protection. Both are excellent programs. Also, the GS are more decentralized than the BSA.(This message has been edited by acco40)(This message has been edited by acco40)

Maybe it is just semantics, but there is one course name Cub Scout Leader Specific and guess what, it is specific dependent on Leader position! In our district, it is offered as one course. That is, it is held at the same time and place and after a joint intro, leaders gather as like (specific) titles and training continues. Voila!

Let me see, how's school? What did you enjoy the most on your last outing? What are 3 best things you enjoy about Boy Scouting? What are your short term and long term goals in Scouting? What don't you like? Yes, these questions could terrify a young boy!

All leaders take the same course, they just have different break-out sessions. That is my understanding. For example: Cub Scout Training Basic Leader Training An overview of the Basic Leader Training program, which begins with the existing Fast Start training, continues through New Leader Essentials, and is followed by Leader Specific training for each adult's role in the unit. Cub Scout Leader Fast Start Gives new leaders information on planning and conducting their first meeting Cub Scout Leader Specific Training Job specific information for all Cub Scout leaders and their assistants. Training lasts approximately three hours. Separate sessions for Tiger Cub Den Leader and Assistant Tiger Cub Den Leader, Cub Scout Den Leader and Assistant Cub Scout Den Leader, Webelos Den Leader and Assistant Webelos Den Leader, Cubmaster and Assistant Cubmaster, and Pack Committee.

I've got a great policy statement that they could use: "All our members pledge to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent." respect all people => helpful, friendly, courteous, kind defend the rights of others => trustworthy, loyal, brave prejudice, intolerance are unacceptable => courteous, kind unlawful descrimination is unacceptable => obedient (This message has been edited by acco40)

Haven't seen any Koalas in my area lately. Eastpoint (formerly East Detroit and didn't like the connotations of having Detroit in thier name so they changed it) is about 30 mi from home (approx 50 km for those who do it right). The Girl Scouts of Metro Detroit, which includes Eastpoint, can be reached at 313-870-2600. Good luck. Have you looked in the eucalyptus trees?

A politician acted in a way that was politically expedient? I'm shocked! Let's get back to Scouting issues.

"Present yourself to your leader, properly dressed, before going on an overnight camping trip. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it." If a boy came to me in his field uniform and showed me a backpack with only a toothbrush in it, no sleeping bag, no other clothes, no other ANYTHING and then showed me the correct way to put it in the backpack and carried it properly I would sign off on that requirement. He met all facets of the requirement. Did he pack the proper items? No. Was he prepared? No. Are those requirements? No. It really is that simple.

For muddy boots or dry shoes - Don't know what they are called but some tents now have little pockets that one can insert their footwear. It keeps them out of the weather but also out of the tent. Remember those science fiction movies where someone would place their hands in the built in gloves to manipulate something in an enclosed box? The little pockets look something like that. No "vestibule" to take up weight or space but a nice place to keep the footwear out of the weather and out of the tent proper.