acco40

Did they teach you what a Packmaster is in your training? If so, I'm clueless. I thought it was a S/W tool. Have confidence in yourself. Don't worry about what others feel. I don't sense any guilt do I? Take pride in your den's accomplishments. Just make sure that it is what they want to do! Some of the thrust for advancement should come from the boys themselves and their families and not all from the WDL. Good luck.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Here in southeastern Michigan, we better not have an Wood Badge beads made out of our ash trees. If so, we would be violating the law if we left the county with them (yes county, not country). With the infestation of the emerald ash borer (another oriental treat), there is a quarantine on the exportation of any ash outside of the immediate area.

Thanks guys. I use to live in southern Arizona (Sierra Vista) as a child so I know about the dry air. I don't take to the sun very well (Scottish / Irish) but the wife and kids have some Mediteranean blood in them so they will do better. As for clothes (I'll probably be attending in late June/early July), is it usually BSA gear only or should I bring my "civies?" Of course, I'll bring both but what ratio? I'm looking forward to it. P.S. Bob White, you mentioned that the branding lines were long. I didn't think a conservative Republican like yourself would get into brandings. Did you get "BSA" or "Bob White" burned into your flesh? Just kidding! Thanks again for the advice.(This message has been edited by acco40)

If the Kilt became official, would the need for official skivies arise?

My Council has recommended me for training at Philmont this summer. I plan on taking my whole family, Wife (Scouter), Son #1 (13 yr. old Life), Son #2 (12 yr. old First Class) and daughter (9 yr. old Girl Scout). Any tips, warnings, or sage advice?

Da Bears, da best. C-23-02 Q. For Man-o-Steel - One of our district professionals is taking Wood Badge right along side all of the volunteers. Do they still have professional only Wood Badge courses? (This message has been edited by acco40)

Okay, now to throw another wrench into the problem. Let's start anew. We have some sort of generic problem. The BOR decides to investigate by asking for a BOR with a Scout. Similarly, the SM asks to hold a SM conference with a Scout. The Scout in question cheerfully agrees. In these instances, the BOR and SM are not part of the requirements for the next rank so in my view the SM conference and BOR "slots" should not be signed off even though technically a SM conference and BOH took place. Comments?

Lead by example. Sometimes the example one sets is how "not" to dress. Different methods work for different individuals. If a leader knows the individuals very well, a somewhat tongue in cheek mocking example may work. If he does not know the Scout very well, it could backfire and have dire circumstances. Therefore, I would not use that method in a Pack or Troop setting by may in a den or patrol setting. Oh, and in the winter, I often wear a long sleeve T-Shirt under my short sleeve uniform. However, I usally do not opt for orange.

Of course what we value changes as we grow older. All anyone has to do is have children to find that out. Now, should societal values and morals change with time, most would say no. What is right and wrong now, in the past and in the future will always be the same. It is our human perception in what these values should be that changes. That being said, I abhor the BSA phrase "traditional values" because it is a marketing slogan that has no concrete definition. It is just more "feel good" to me. What society has problems with now is technology outpacing ethics. If we have a medical cure for a single individual that has a monetary cost for all to bear, what should we do? If some one is in such pain and agony that they do not wish to continue living, do we kep them alove by artificial means? No simple answers.

Gentlemen, in my original post my wish to have others give my son a SM conference was not to remove any signs of favoritism. The purpose of the SM conference is to get to know the Scout, something as his father I already do. Having a SM conference with me would serve no purpose for me. However, I like what one suggested, I could give him an additional one because it may serve a purpose for him. I also think it serves a purpose for him to have a SM conference with an adult who is not his father. It is very hard for most youth to separate father from Den Leader or Scoutmaster. Similarly, it is difficult sometimes to separate Scout from son!

Barry, same can be said for BORs' they do not have to be used solely for advancement. I like to see BORs be used not to retest, but to possibly look into how a requirement was met. For example, my SPL signed off another boys requirement for "demonstrate water rescue techniques by reaching with your arm or leg, by reaching with a suitable object, and by throwing lines and objects" for a boy one evening. I talked to him (the SPL) about it. How can one demonstrate water rescue techniques in a church basement? It is not my style to take away requirements that have been signed off but I "tightened the leash" a bit on the boys about signing off requirements. It is not a bad idea for a BOR to ask a Scout how and when certain requirements were approved and then asking him if he thought it was legit. By the way, as SM, I have delegated the SM conference for every rank (so far up to 1st Class) for one boy in our troop, my son. I do not need to get to know him better plus he and I have many "at home" pseudo SM conferences. It also serves a dual purpose, giving the SAs SM conference practice and teaches my son to interact more with adults WAND (Who Are Not Dad). At first he resented it. "How come you give everyone else their SM conference but me?", was a common refrain. Now he accepts it but I don't think he likes it. Any comments?

Straight from the G2SS:  Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.  No one-on-one contact. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths. Now, I have no source but what I remember from YP training (my memory has been faulty in the past) is that for Cub Scouts, even non-trips and outings require 2 deep leadership. For example, a single den leader at home with his/her den is not permissable. For Boy Scouts, that is not a requirement. Personally, I try to avoid any Scouting situation where I am the only adult present.

Two (adult) deep leadership, while it makes sense for all, only applies to Cub Scouts. For Boy Scouts, the main YP rule is no one on one contact with youth (unless it is your son.) This is easily demonstrated by a typical PLC meeting which includes only one adult (SM) and multiple youth (SPL, ASPL, PLs, Scribe, etc.). For all, in general when someone prefaces a question about "Boy Scouts" I assume they are talking about the Boy Scout program, one of many quality programs that the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) provides. Therefore, I interpret the original question as pertaining to Boy Scouts which does not require two deep leadership.(This message has been edited by acco40)

I believe no matter what, they will need to pay a fee. The question is if it needs to be the registration fee ($10?) or a transfer fee ($1). To my knowledge, if a youth or adult adds another "position", a transfer fee of $1 is levied. Now that said, if the man-o-steel disagrees with my view he is probably correct. Always defer to the professionals when it comes to rules, regulations and policy.

First, who do you think may know what is best for a youth, his parents or the Cubmaster? Similarly, the same question goes for homeschooling. Religion aside, many parents are suited to homeschool their offspring. My children respond very differently to their teachers than they do to me or their mother. Teachers don't have the same emotional attachment that most parents have. Now, some public schools in this country are so bad, homeschooling is the only choice for caring parents. Homeschooled children also seem to have a built in advantage that not all public school educated youth have, parents that care. Yes, many of the children who are homeschooled are homeschooled because mom and dad did not like how the public school system handled their "special" child. Special because of some "not normal" behavior (superior intelligence, inferior intelligence, medical conditions, behavior problems, etc.). Yes Virginia, surprise surprise, the public school system seems to work best for "average" kids. That is their primary customer.

Smokin' Man o Steel - Do you think the committee should be checking references or would it be better left up to the CO/COR?

nm(This message has been edited by acco40)

We Be Loyal Scouts sounds too much like Ebonics. Try, We'll Be Loyal Scouts.

My philosophy (not necessarily endorsed by the BSA) it to let the Den leaders (who volunteered) choose who is in their dens. Let them work it out. If the Pack has 20 Wolfs (Wolves?), and each den leader agrees to take seven boys, guess what? The families of the other six need to find another den leader. Boys should not be thrust upon the den leaders.

First of all, welcome. Second, please use capital letters where appropriate. Three, troops do not "own" packs. Packs and Troops may share a Charter Organization. Fourth, Cub Scouts uses age and grade (school) level to determine the proper program level for the youth. Therefore, a 10 year old first grader and a one year old fourth grader may both be in the Webelos program. (CubsrGr8, you beat my post by 3 seconds! It is important to note that I addressed the requirements. Common sense may also be used. An eight year old fourth grader has the choice to belong to either a den of his age based peers, i.e. Bears, or his grade based peers, i.e. Webelos. The individual makeup of the boy would determine which level would suit him best.) For Boys Scouts, the joining requirements look at age, grade level and Cub Scout program completion. If a youth completes the AOL requirements, he may join a Boy Scout troop regardless of age. (This message has been edited by acco40)

Officially, the BSA claims that the Webelos means WE'll BE LOyal Scouts. Unofficially, (and to me) it was sort of an acronym for Wolf - BEar - Lion -Scout signaling the transition from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts. SERVICE STARS ARE CALCULATED BASED ON REGISTRATION INFORMATION. That's the reason why they are called "service stars". They are not based on "graduation" or "movement" from one program element to another (from Wolf to Bear, for instance) nor from program to program (from Cub Scouting to Boy Scouting, for instance). Each period of service starts with the date of registration (which is why the capturing of that information is important by the UNIT) and goes for a one-year period to the following year. However, there is some consenus on the fact that since this entire thing is up to the unit to present, that those Cubs and Scouts that "advanced earlier than the time period" (for instance, earned the Arrow of Light two months before the end of their fourth year as a Cub Scout; or has six years and eleven months' tenure as a Boy Scout at age 18) to be presented and to wear the service star for the following year. That is a UNIT'S CALL.

We can't demand anything. The only thing that we as Scout leaders can do are offer clear consequences for a Scout's behavior. The sooner we all realize that, the better.

Be careful what you wish for! When I was an SA, the SM put a "seasoned" scout (Star rank, 1 yr of den chief experience, 1.5 as a Boy Scout) in with a group of new (just crossed over Webelos Scouts) boys. The view of the SM (and 100% of the adult leadership) was that this boys was the best candidate by far to lead the boys in the new patrol. It was obvious to them. When the boys had their election of course, they choose one of their peers and not the outsider that they felt was "thrust upon" them (albeit in a very close election, 4 to 3). What is the goal? To break camp the fastest? To cook the best meals? No, the goals are the aims of Scouting which are best achieved by following the program guidelines. Let the Patrol choose a leader from their peer group.

To be more concise: "Pick your battles."

Not to go against the grain but ... I think the younger boys relate more to a story than a phrase or quip. A short phrase alone doesn't hold much water. The best method is to relate a quick story and then state the phrase synopsis. Of course, a long winded story is the worst of all.