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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter

  1. "The Peter Principle is based on the logical idea that competent employees will continue to be promoted, but at some point will be promoted into positions for which they are incompetent, and they will then remain in those positions because of the fact that they do not demonstrate any further competence that would get them recognized for additional promotion. According to the Peter Principle, every position in a given hierarchy will eventually be filled by employees who are incompetent to fulfill the job duties of their respective positions."

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  2. Most of the really good, conscientious, dedicated-to-the-movement professionals (DE's) I have met over the years, got disillusioned or burned out, then left.  I understand this is a common thing, but have no data to back it up.  What is the turnover rate for DE's??

    Most (not all) of the professionals I have become acquainted with, who have advanced further, were there for themselves or the hope of future big money as an SE or some position at region/national.  I think this mentality has finally borne its fruit.

    Two exchanges really stick in my head...

    My first SE, in the council I grew up in, tried to recruit me as a DE when I was graduating college.  I told him "Thanks, but I am going to be a pilot in the Air Force!"

    He replied, "Now there's a waste of a good education."  I never spoke to him again.  (And was an officer and pilot for 26 years 😜 ) 

    When I retired, and came to this council, looking to get involved, the current SE tried to recruit me as a DE (and later as full time Camp Director).  I asked him what was his biggest headache in the council...

    He said, "Volunteers who put on the uniform and think they are equal to me."  I chose neither to befriend him, nor work for him in any hired capacity.


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  3. 8 hours ago, MattR said:

    Pushing a program such that a 13 yo can complete eagle  leaves nothing for a 16 yo.


    I've often thought there should be a lower age limit for Eagle Scout.

    And there are many things for the 16 yo to do...High Adventure, Hornadays, National Medal for Outdoor Achievement, Supernova Awards (Scouts and Venturing...5 total), Congressional Award for Youth (up to Gold Medal) (although not a Scouting program), Summit, Religious Awards for particular faith...

  4. 11 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    For those that think 18-25 year olds need adult supervision, I say tell it to these folks.



    I agree that our young military personnel are having experiences which make them grow up much faster.  However, after 26 years on active duty, I can tell you the 18-25 year olds do need "adult" supervision.

    As a squadron commander (normal first level in Air Force that has UCMJ authority) I spent a great deal of time handling legal and readiness issues for this age cohort.  Drugs/DUI/crimes/security violations/domestic issues/financial problems/mental health, etc.  Most "kids" entering the military are quite unprepared for the military culture.  Something that would be a minor offense in the civilian world (or no offense at all) can have serious consequences in the military.

    The research is becoming clear that our brains are not fully formed until we are between 25 - 30...specifically some areas of the frontal cortex.

    This area is the seat of executive function, responsible for processing what our actions should be in

    1. Situations that involve planning or decision making
    2. Situations that involve error correction or trouble shooting
    3. Situations where responses are not well-rehearsed or contain novel sequences of actions
    4. Dangerous or technically difficult situations
    5. Situations that require overcoming strong habitual response or resisting temptation

    ^^^^^Sounds like Scouting to me...

    Although I have not seen empirical evidence for this, I claim that Scouting is a "rehearsal" for those areas, and that, through having experiences in these areas at a younger age makes a young adult much more suited making good decisions in situations above.  This is why people want to hire Eagle Scouts, why they are given higher rank when entering the military, and why, in later life, they are usually more "productive" citizens.

    Remember all the crazy stuff you did at this age?  It's a wonder I survived, even as an Eagle Scout ;)

    This is why I am involve in Scouting.  I want young people to have experiences in a relatively well-controlled environment which will help them develop before they hit those critical 18-25 years, where their decisions will have more significant consequences.

    If you have the time, here is a good read https://www.rainbowrehab.com/executive-functioning/



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  5. 3 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

    If everything gets liquidated, I could foresee a wealthy individual who is anti-BSA buying the Eagle Scout TM.  Then they'd hold on to it, not using it themselves, and but granting anyone else the right to use it either.

    How much would any of you think this is worth??

    My guess...starting bid $5 million






  6. 10 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    So if we go to a family model, I am gone.

    Our Troop was just cutting the apron strings from a Family model when I joined (my son crossed over).  The Scoutmaster who was leading that effort at the time recruited me...  After about a year of transition from Advanced Cub Scouts to youth led/patrol method, the old guard of the committee stopped supporting his efforts and he left.  One of the old guard stepped in to be SM, and tried to return to the old ways. It was a disaster.   I appealed to our Commissioner and DE.  The Commissioner tried to help educate the parents and Committee on what Scouting is, but it fell on deaf ears. We lost a third of the Scouts. I was close to leaving.  The SM had family issues that pulled him away, so I agreed to step in as SM with the understanding that we would do the Scouting program...not Family Scouts.  I preach the Scout gospel to our committee monthly...they all agree, and trust, to get out of the way.  It is working, and in two years (this June) we have made great progress.  Troop has more than doubled in size.  Parents are happy with the results.

    I cannot go back to a Family model.  I will go with you Eagle94.  Where will we go?

    1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    At least in my neck of the woods, a lot of those folks feel abandoned and betrayed by the BSA over the past few years. They are  no longer interested inthe BSA as a national org, although they will support local units. 

    Ditto...I have made the mental leap of separating Scouting from the BSA.  You do not need the BSA to have Scouting.  So I live in a world of Scouting while wearing a BSA uniform to facilitate the movement.  But BSA currently has the market share, and the crown jewel...Eagle Scout.

    4 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

    How much is the trademark "Eagle Scout" worth?

    Ha!  I was just thinking that!

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  7. 28 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

    As for the survey, maybe you got one, but almost nobody else on this forum did.

    I got the survey.  But I remember nothing about Family camping...my responses were primarily in favor of opening the program to girls, and to keep it separate-gendered so as not to be a distraction for youth.  I have participated in co-ed Scouting in Sweden, and boy-girl issues were always at the forefront.  I have friends in Scouting organizations in Germany, Luxembourg, Canada, and Namibia...same story...intermingling the genders has some advantages for "socialization" and learning to interact, but relationships/love spats/breakups tend to be always rearing their ugly heads.  I have seen the same in two Venturing crews.  Scouting can be difficult when there are several elephants in the room.

    And yes, most of my issues as a unit leader come from new parents who do not understand that Scouts is not an extension of Cub Scouts.


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  8. 11 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

    Because the girls want to earn Eagle.  All of the girls I know who are in troops are focused on earning Eagle, and most of them want to earn it ASAP.

    Thunderbird, I have it on good non-arrogant authority from Eagledad that "They are doing it wrong."  Would you be so kind as to relay?...lol

  9. 2 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

    This type of restriction has always been true. 

    Not really...

    "Published" is the key word here.  When councils or national "publish" more stringent rules, we are bound to follow them, and do. (helmets, life jackets, Safe Swim Defense, etc.)

    Our council has not published anything for units...only district and council events.  If you read the FAQ, the inference is that councils must give you a green light before you meet again.

    And I do not go around enforcing our council's interpretations on other councils' programs...I only speak up when that council might be going against "published" National prescriptions.


  10. 54 minutes ago, yknot said:

    If you are not following scout policies and procedures...

    Agreed.  But we should all be careful to differentiate between what is printed in "official" publications (G2SS, Scouter Code of Conduct, Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat, Climb on Safely, etc.) versus a posting to an FAQ on their website.  

    I, for one, do not take website postings as official policy or procedure.  My adult application says "I have read and affirm that I accept the Declaration of Religious Principle. I agree to comply with the rules and regulations of the BSA and the local council, including the Scouter Code of Conduct."  Nothing mentioned there about BSA website FAQ's.

  11. 1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

    Who is babysitting who! Doesn't matter, if babysitting is a word being used in your unit, they they are doing it wrong.

    You are making many conclusions from such a short post.  And please notice, I didn't say "our unit."

    Yes, "babysitting."  14-17 year olds want to hang out with their buddies, not teach the basics to 10.5 to 12 year olds.  The Scouts who enjoy this part of leading are few.

    "The unit leaders are doing it wrong."  Maybe...but I think it is more the parents who are pushing their girls to earn Eagle for the college resume.

    Where the rest of your rant is going, it's hard to see...maybe your horse is a bit too high? 

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  12. And also...

    "When units with different chartered organizations do activities together, this becomes a district or council event and requires council approval."

    Our DE is going to get tired my future requests for approval.

    We occasionally do co-unit camping together.

    Last summer, we did a co-unit canoe trek...guess that was then a district/council event....should I ask for forgiveness??

    We do inter-unit campfires, when possible, on trips to non-Scout properties...this is an "activity"...do we have to get approval?

    On our Pioneering camping trip, when we build a Monkey Bridge (no higher than 6 feet!) and the other unit camping near us wants to have a go..."Wait!  I have to get my council's approval!"  

    Notices will follow the lines of my usual emails..."We intend to do X unless you advise otherwise."  Most of them go unanswered...

  13. From the BSA's COVID-19 FAQ

    "Councils make the determination, working closely with their council health supervisor and local health department, about when units can conduct in-person meetings and activities again. If the unit’s local council is allowing in-person activities but has restrictions in place (e.g., no more than 10, social distancing of 6 ft. etc.), the unit must meet and abide by those restrictions – even if the unit is traveling out of council/state."

    I was gonna ignore this one, but now that it has been emailed out to our council, I will engage.

    Unless your council has already published guidance for "back to normal", you need your council's permission/blessing to conduct unit meetings even when your state/county/municipality may have lifted restrictions?  smh

    And if your Summer Camp is out of council/state, you must abide by your home restrictions when more stringent than your destination's?  When in Rome...? 

  14. 9 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

    Venturing membership is imploding for reasons I am not entirely aware of. 

    My daughter and her friends were in Venturing primarily for the outdoor program.  They have that now in Troops.

    Most young men I have spoken with were in Venturing for the outdoor program, to get away from "babysitting" in Troops, to leave the advancement program behind, and for girls 😜  With the young women leaving for Troops, many young men are bailing out.

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