InquisitiveScouter
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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter
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16 hours ago, David CO said:
Yes we are. The thing I find so strange is that there seems to be an inverse relationship here. The more we protect (bubble wrap) kids in the real world, the more the literary world has kids endangering themselves. I am not usually a psychology type of person, but I think there must be something going on here. Maybe the kids' reading preferences are a reaction to having an over-protected life.
16 hours ago, yknot said:I don't know. I think the average suburban kid in a stable home is well protected from physical harm, but psychologically I think society dangles them over cliffs. In many ways, kids are not allowed to be kids any more. Mentally they are pushed into adult situations and adult stress loads. The attraction for this kind of literature and media may be that it presents kids with characters who are able to survive in chaotic, dangerous worlds where adults are no longer in control or can't be trusted. Whatever it is, there is definitely something going on though and it's disturbing.
Gents, young people (you included, when you were young) have a need for risk and an element of danger, if for nothing more than to find out what the boundaries are... This is primary territory for scouting.
If you have time, two good articles....shocking statistic about "roaming distance" btw
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/risk-essential-childhood-children-danger
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/16/childre-nature-outside-play-health
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7 hours ago, fred8033 said:
Are we saying a non-emergency medical condition allows ignoring Guide To Safe Scouting rules ?
@fred8033, no, not "ignoring". But there are non-emergency medical conditions which would require an "exception to policy". Two examples...a sleepwalker, and a Scout with disabilities which made him unable to grasp and open zippers on sleeping bags, tents, backpacks, pants, etc,, and to not be able to take care of personal hygiene adequately. In both cases, before the event, the unit made a written request to the SE, who concurred and informed National (who might have vetoed?). Both cases were approved with two stipulations: 1) those adults may not be counted towards required supervision for the rest of the unit, and 2) the exception would terminate if the Scout's condition improved to where the exception was no longer required.
We did have an issue where, based on SM judgment, we had a parent tent with Scout. It was Scout's first night with the Troop. Parent (committee member) was camping with adults, in separate location and tent. Unit was in bear country. Another mischievous Scout thought it would be funny to act like a bear and scare the bejeezus (technical term) out of the first nighter... Well, the first nighter was absolutely terrified (bejeezus meter definitely on on zero). The only way he was going to stay was if the parent slept in the tent with him. SM made the call to do it, but one night only...if first nighter "needed" this the second night, they would go home. Parent was not one of the supervising adults. Second night was fine. Scout slept alone.
7 hours ago, fred8033 said:Just not on "abuse" or "safety".
Agreed. I usually reason with the parents along these lines: 1) We understand your Scout is afraid, but he will be fine. This isn't our first rodeo. And yes, your Scout is unique. (just like everybody else, but we don't say that out loud) 2) A Scout is brave. In order to be brave, you MUST have fear. Without fear, there is no bravery. This is a key point Scouts must learn. 99 times out of 100, when you ask a new Scout what is means to be brave, he says it means "to not be afraid". Nothing could be further from the truth... 3) He needs to face this challenge to grow, and he will receive loads of encouragement and support. 4) If you tent with him, the other Scouts WILL think this odd, and we will have to work harder at "perception" management and watch how the others interact with your Scout. Please save them this potential pain and embarrassment. 5) If you tent with your Scout, it WILL be detrimental to other Scouts whose parents could not attend, and this can be a cause for resentment towards your Scout. 6) If you do not believe your Scout can handle sleeping without you, then perhaps he is not ready for the program.
7 hours ago, fred8033 said:I'd be very very upset with the parents.
Yeah, that was a huge foul on the part of the ASM, for not informing the adult leaders who were supervising. Chastisement definitely in order.
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19 minutes ago, elitts said:
The frequency with which this problem crops up across a system as widespread as the BSA is in the US makes me think it must be rooted in a systemic failure somewhere. Either because the established processing requirements are inexplicably complicated or because the BSA has failed to grasp the fundamental truth that basic competence in recordkeeping is an important reflection on an organization.
The latter...
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2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:
That is where things like tower rules and no parents in tents come from; ONE case or ONE instance of a successful lawsuit of a scout being injured from a tower or a parent/step-parent abusing their kid at a Scout event (and it has happened) and BSA is going to put in a rule to try and stop it.
Because the NEXT time a scout gets abused or the NEXT time a scout falls from a 6 foot tower, you better believe that the lawyers will point to the PRIOR incident as proof BSA knew it was a danger and disregarded it.
I call this the "one person poops his pants and then everybody has to wear a diaper" rule!
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17 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
Towers is actually a safety rule. BSA (or their lawyers) adopted the OSHA standard for workplace safety, namely, you cannot have a situation in which a person can fall more than 6 feet without a fall restraint system or something similar.
And why Scouts cannot climb trees any more. 🤪😒😬
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Best protection from bears is to put food in someone else's tent
Kidding!!!
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Don't forget to sign and return the very last page of the application (page 9 of the pdf)...the Additional Disclosures and Background Information Authorization.
Also note, there are many links to the old application out there. You must use the 02/2020 version. Best to get it from the official source...
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-501.pdf
Second most common mistake in filling out the application...don't forget the two blocks requiring initials, just to the left of your signature block. These are part of the "I hereby certify that:"
And if you want to put the best example forward, please follow the Guide to Awards and Insignia when "assembling" your uniform.
https://www.scouting.org/resources/insignia-guide/
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Family Camping
Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Scouts BSA, Sea Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection policies apply.
Recreational Family Camping
Recreational family camping occurs when Scouting families camp as a family unit outside of an organized program. It is a nonstructured camping experience, but is conducted within a Scouting framework on local council-owned or -managed property. Local councils may have family camping grounds available for rent. Other resources may include equipment, information, and training.
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Maybe they are referring to this "Recreational Family Camping"
We have had exceptions to the "Troop" rules, based on physical or medical needs. Each done on a case by case basis, with approval from the SE.
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24 minutes ago, mashmaster said:
There is a local troop nearby that is the definition of an Eagle mill. Every week there is more email and promotion of past Eagles "So and so what our 250th Eagle scout, it's his birthday". "Come to our meeting tonight and earn the XYZ Merit Badge"
That troop has zero youth that know how to advocate for themselves. They expect to get Eagle and have everything handed over.
I have the immediate distain for a Troop that starts the conversation with "we have had X Eagles last year, this year, ever." I want to here "Our scouts love camping and going on high adventure"
I feel your frustration, too...
Whenever we have a prospective parent ask, "How many of your Scouts earn Eagle?" We always answer now, "As many as are willing to do the work to earn it." That answer is well-received about 50% of the time...the other 50% usually wind up in a mill...
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On 2/11/2021 at 10:14 AM, SSScout said:
Why didn't you help my son more?
"Because he didn't ask." ...is my usual response
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8 minutes ago, David CO said:
Love and discipline are not mutually exclusive. We can love children and still discipline them.
@David CO We can go further...you cannot love without discipline. They are mutually inclusive.
Proverbs 13:24 (among others)
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You are welcome to stay as long as you accept the consequences for your behavior and show progress in exerting self-control.
That is crux of discipline versus punishment.
If your behavior continues (especially if it is harming to others), you will leave.
Firm but fair.
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56 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:
That hasn't been true since at least 2007.
Disagree...CO has control of the monies...but agree must be held for Scouting. So, if the CO wants to give it to another unit, that is up to them...
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Grrr...
Several units in our council are not renewing. No inquiries from council on "How can we help to keep you going?" But several Key 3's (that I know) did get emails from council saying "Please write us a check for any remaining unit funds and close your unit bank accounts." With a mention that they would hold those funds in trust for a period of time (not specified) to be given back to the units if and when they rechartered. (Anyone believe that??) No mention of the fact that that money technically belongs to the CO when the unit does not renew.
Grrr...
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A parallel... The US Olympic Committee is a 501 C 3 facing consequences for it's role in cases of sexual abuse of gymnasts. If the USOC ceased to exist, sporting competitions and the Olympics would continue. Another group would fill the gap. the USOC is not sports, and sports is not the USOC.
https://www.moran.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/news-releases?id=4A4EB912-624B-4706-A6A1-64DC88E20C74
The BSA is not Scouting. BSA is a corporation that markets their Scouting program (monopolistically?). If the corporation does not exist, Scouting still will. Scouting existed in this country before the BSA, afterall.
At the local level, I am not concerned. Nor am I at the national level...the movement of Scouting will continue in some form or another, with or without the BSA.
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- Popular Post
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10 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:Dear Moderators and Friends,
Last year some of you may recall that I actively hosted three lengthy postings in advance of the bankruptcy filing. My purpose was to prepare the way for a great reorganization filing that I believed would result in a plan agreement and approval within six months or so after the filing date. The discussions were serious and hundreds participated. COVID destroyed that possibility, leading some claimants Attorneys to smell blood in the water. They have gone in for the kill and Scouting as we know it could end.
Several commenters joined claimants attorneys by going for the kill as well, primarily by posting one-liner personal attacks and down arrows against commenters attempting to balance the need to provide justice for victims of past with a desire to continue serving youth in the future. They comment in disruptive ways and despise every aspect of our the national, council and district structures and volunteer leaders. They further despise any citizen willing to work for pay to advance Scouting.
The monitors of this site have chosen to allow the proliferation of often-abusive commentary. This has led to a diminishment of quality and a need for thoughtful commenters to just take “time off” from the abuse on this site. I regret to share that I have concluded some of these individuals are acting in concert with interests seeking to drive the BSA into liquidation.
If the moderators want to restore seriousness of purpose regarding discussion of the bankruptcy on this site, amid the crisis of whether Scouting will have a future at all, some of us might be willing to seriously re-engage. For instance, the ultimate issue will be upon us in just a few weeks — whether and how much local councils should contribute to the victim’s trust in exchange for a local council discharge. This should receive a thorough discussion in order to inform viewers on a matter they can impact in their local councils.
I comment in my own name, am proud of everything I have said and thank Scouting.com for having allowed me to share thoughts during these years of change. However, I encourage all thoughtful commenters to wait for a thoughtful reply from the moderators before investing serious time in posting analysis on this next, existential phase of the bankruptcy. If management of this site wants a serious discussion on this potential “final issue”, it can have it. However, it will need its moderators to directly curtail intentional disruptors.
Sincerely,cburkhardt
@Cburkhardt, there is so much to unpack there.
In general, you cast aspersions at nebulous targets. When you make a derogatory claim against an unidentified target, it comes across as disingenuous...crying "wolf" but not showing us where the wolf is. If you want to help your claims, please be more specific.
You make a claim of conspiracy, "...some of these individuals are acting in concert with interests seeking to drive the BSA into liquidation." without identifying the conspirators (who are posting on this site) or their interests.
It also seems that you genuinely believe that comments posted here have an effect on the outcome of this bankruptcy in different venues, including local councils and the courts. Do you believe that comments posted on this site influence the actions of Council Boards and Scout Executives across the country? Do you believe that attorneys in the case will use anything said here in their presentations before the court? I do not reach those same conclusions.
If you want to instruct the volunteer moderators on how to do their jobs, again, please be more specific. What was a "disruptive" or "abusive" comment that you think the moderators should have taken action on that they didn't?
The public square is open to all ideas and expression. It is necessary to have free speech to present all points of view to flesh out sound ideas, and eliminate unsound ones. That's what we do here. When an idea is presented, it first falls on all of us in this community to expose that idea for its absurdity (without disparaging the person), or praise it for its truth and applicability. If the idea infringes on someone else's rights or dignity, then we can call on the moderators to act.
What you propose is equivalent to the "cancel culture" and censoring of ideas you don't like. That should be anathema to any citizen.
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2 hours ago, yknot said:
This is often the case with so many issues that arise on this forum and it's why many of us are often here. So many of these issues could be resolved if BSA would clarify what it means. I understand that in many cases, legal liability is the reason for the vagueness or lack of a policy. But there are so many other issues where a a little more clarity or definitiveness would simplify things in the field.
IIRC, the BSA used to publish a book called The Language of Scouting that addressed titles.
The current online resources don't cover such things anymore.
https://www.scouting.org/resources/los/
I have a much older printed version around here somewhere...if I dig it up, I'll try to post an excerpt or two, if applicable.
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Just now, Eagledad said:
but the truth is the SM is by default responsible for everyone's actions in the program.
No, but I am responsible for imposing accountability, or consequences...that role I have no problem with.
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10 minutes ago, Eagledad said:
As you stated, even the adults have different expectations of accountability. So, what's the difference whether the scouts or adults are lax. You have to figure out how to set accountability in the culture of the troop for everyone.
That is the lament, brother... and why I just say I am only responsible for my own actions, not anyone else's
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3 minutes ago, mashmaster said:
And you can't trust camp blue cards either.
What is the solution to the onslaught? Other than gathering a group of like-minded leaders, with similar conscientious behavior, to scrub every requirement with a Scout to make sure they were done?
For many Scouts, Scouters, and parents, my simple standards of "What does the Handbook say?" and "What does the requirement say?" seem draconian...
A little over a year ago, when I found older Scouts were not adhering to requirements as written, I stopped all youth sign-offs. (The were pencil-whipping, for various reasons...) Only ASMs and I can sign off requirements. Advancement has slowed (no First Class in a year LOL) , but the "product" is much better. Our Scouts know and can do more now.
And yet, in line with their "human nature", they still seek out the ASMs who are the most lenient, or dare I say, lax on requirements.
I find this character element of integrity the hardest to teach.
Our Boards of Review focus more on the Scouts' experience in the program and reflections on Troop leadership, rather than their co-equal task of "...determining if a Scout has met the requirements."
Esse quam videre
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13 minutes ago, qwazse said:
it deprives volunteers of the coveted time mentoring a youth. So instead of 12 youth helped, its 8-10. On the district side, the commissioner goes from collecting a handshake and contact info to making sure a half dozen t-s are crossed and i-s dotted. So, instead of the commish and his/her buddies going around neighborhoods shaking hands with dozens of prospective adults every month, they are probably pushing paperwork for a fraction of the people who they would have on-boarded for the same effort in the past.
So, instead of recruitment being a fun exercise of growing a fellowship of caring adults -- it has become an administrative hot-potato.
And there is zero desire to conduct a process improvement team here...
We did this with the council's L2E process, with great success...project and application returns to candidates is way down...
Our MBC process is WAAAYYYY broken. But there is no incentive seen to fix it...everyone seems to have implemented their own "county option" to it.
The worst is this...in Scoutbook, unit admins can approve any merit badge. Skip the counselor, and just award Jimmy the badge when you think he has done the requirements. I have talked with unit leaders from other units who, frustrated with council and district inability to get MBCs signed up, use this "stroke of the pen."
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Refreshing, although dated...
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I believe in the ideals. It's the people who work so hard at tearing them down, who seem to be gaining in influence, that erode faith...
I, for one, am standing in the gap as best I can.
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40 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:
If the core of the BSA were to lose faith in its long-term future
Well, given events of late, it's not just the BSA's long-term future I am beginning to lose faith in...
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Help! How do I get my "Scout Mojo" Back?
in Open Discussion - Program
Posted
Scouting is not your priority. Stepping away from it is OK.
How is your spiritual life? How is your family dynamic? How is your financial health? How is your physical health? (Although, Scouting can help with the last one
) These questions are rhetorical...please do not answer them here. But, if you are really not where you want to be with these, they will also affect your Scouting experience. So, a little attention to these areas of life can help.
As @CynicalScouter said, counseling is a positive thing. Talking with someone, exploring what motivates you and why you are experiencing this low spot, and finding ways to cope with the stresses that bring you back to "center" will go a long way to making extra-curricular things like Scouting more enjoyable.
You are fighting the same battle we all deal with a various times... and you can find a way through.