InquisitiveScouter

50 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

the special forces of scouting

Love this thought!  May I please use it freely without crediting you??😜😜😜

On 6/11/2021 at 3:12 AM, MGinLA said:

Part of the reason is that in their scouting experience, they have seen the OA as one of two things:  (1) free labor at Camporees; and (2) dancers in Indian costumes.   They have no interest in being either one, and are frankly uncomfortable with the racial overtones of the latter.

This^^^^^ and the rest...great post.  Would give it more Upvotes, if I could.

Like units, each lodge has it's own personality and culture...

Those with the least draw for that council's Scouts are what we term a "self-licking ice cream cone" (SLICC)  Some common themes among these are:

- The Lodge focusing more on being a "Native American Heritage Society", where dance teams, drum teams, pow-wows, and regalia become more important than the "thing of the spirit"  

- Councils using the OA as a set up and take down of their Summer Camp to avoid paying staff extra time to do this...to the point of telling the lodge that Ordeals must be scheduled as bookends to Summer Camp to accomplish this.

- Lodges putting out the message to unit leaders that they should consider what a Scout's contribution to the lodge will be when considering eligibility for OA election.  (Yes, this happens.)  An Arrowman's first duty is to his unit.  https://oa-bsa.org/article/thoughts-arrowmans-primary-duty

- Lodges which do no unit service, other than conduct elections.  You can generate a whole laundry list of possibilities for this, starting with producing the WTGCG mentioned elsewhere.  I know that some lodges even create Venturing Crews which are set up as units solely for the purpose of giving Arrowmen a place to register in order to meet the the "must be registered member" requirement. (anathema!)

- Lodges which do no community service events, but serve only themselves (or Scouting) through Fellowships, Ordeals, Camp Work Days, Conclaves, etc.

Those with the most draw do the opposite

45 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Done correctly, commissioner is both fun and rewarding. But, that kind of program requires good leadership. District Commissioner was my dream job after I retired from Scoutmaster, but council and district burned me out the next few years and I retired completely from scouting. They came to my door and offered me the job 3 years later, but I developed to many new habits with the family to jump back into the program. My loss.

Barry

Barry, thank you for all you did for scouting...

Wanna do a 50-miler with us on the Delaware River in August?🤪🤪🤪

14 hours ago, SSScout said:

Self tapping screws hold it together now. 

Yeah, I have one that was made with aluminum rivets...those didn't last long   The self-tappers did the trick.

3 minutes ago, MattR said:

I'd sign up to be one if I saw a way to make it work. It's an impossible position as described. As implemented it's a group of people that answer simple questions about council policy. My troop's commissioner goes to most of our committee meetings but is solely there to answer questions about policy. If there's a bigger purpose they're not interested.

Comparing that reality to the discussions here about commissioners being an important way to help units develop - I see a gap.

 

The other side of the coin is that unit leaders need to be open to the guidance Commissioners give.  Many unit leaders I know think that when a district or council person (vol or pro) shows up at their events, it only means trouble.

Leaders must be continually developed.  Youth and adult.  I do not get the sense that this mindset exists in our council.

Yeah, this one is a head scratcher...GTSS forbids, but I know a recent version of the Fire Safety Merit Badge pamphlet discussed using lighter fluid for charcoal, so that is (or was) a very mixed message.    I dunno if that has been updated to reflect GTSS prohibitions....anyone have current copy of Fire Safety MB and can check it out??

15 hours ago, MattR said:

If there's one common thread to toxicity in my district it's the council exec. 

Ditto.

Here, our district has two major challenges.  

1.  No Commissioner Corps to speak of...  (There is no one to help units know what "right" looks like.)

2. The District schedules too many events, if you can believe it...  two camporees per year (in addition to a council-wide event), many (like six or so) Cub events that they ask Troops to support, Klondike, a skills competition, a fishing derby, rocket launch, a merit badge event, etc.  And you are castigated if you don't attend/support the events.  It is like the district is planning a whole Troop program year so the Troops don't have to.  When I am asked why we weren't at such and such an event, I simply say, "Because the PLC decided they wanted to do something else."  And, unfortunately, that answer is not acceptable to most in our council.  smh

This one is a burr under my saddle... one of the stated purposes of the Order is to 

"Promote camping, responsible outdoor adventure, and environmental stewardship as essential components of every Scout’s experience, in the unit, year-round, and in summer camp."

In too many cases, this has devolved into putting up tents at an Ordeal weekend prior to summer camp, and not much else...

Good to see some lodges still produce the WTGCG

50 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I'm talking about the bigger picture of the mission of developing character. Growth is based on the experience of making decisions, not watching role models. Role models are reinforcement of what is learned from the Patrol Method experience.

Barry

Hand in hand with Association with Adults goes Personal Growth.  The Aims are not discrete functions, they are a unified whole.  Again, you know that.

If we just pushed them out the door without the Adult Association (as many are doing outside of Scouting), they will rarely develop desirable character...  Lord of the Flies?

25 minutes ago, qwazse said:

The overhead in terms of adult-hours required per youth served has sky-rocketed.

This is one of the things that is killing Scouting.

22 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

And who determines a persons BAD character?

You have jumped to the opposite end of the spectrum.  Fine.  The answer in all cases is the Chartering Organization.  You know that.

27 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

How can a program build character.

The program doesn't.  People build character in themselves and in other people.  We adults are supposed to be setting the example (Association with Adults, anyone?)  Unfortunately, a great many Scouters I have come across are not "people of good character".  Blame the Co's on this one...most often, the adult leaders are just the ones who volunteer to do it, without regard as to whether that person is a "positive role model"  "Scouts learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves."

"I think yesterdays overburdened Cub program steels the illusion of fun from the adult perspective and they loose any enthusiasm of it for their kids."

You got that right!!

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

And from what I gather when volunteers have offered to help with the IT side/development, they've been told to go away.

Things that make you go ..."Hmmmm"

1 minute ago, fred8033 said:

Of everything happening recently with BSA, ScoutBook is my big fear.  I've grown accustomed to it.  I was not in favor initially, but I've gotten used to it.  We only use it for roster mgmt and advancement  / recognition.  But within that context, it does work.  

I really fear national becoming unable to support it.  Councils, units and individual scouts have grown very dependent on it.   That's a large user base for such a small IT organization such as BSA must have.  

It is our primary platform for event scheduling, communication, advancement tracking, and financial transactions (outings, dues, summer camp payments, etc.)

Whatever comes next must provide similar or enhanced capabilities, along with a seamless transition.

Had to make one more post, because I was at 666

9 minutes ago, qwazse said:

As a general rule, it's always better to perform scouting as if National doesn't exist and be pleasantly surprised when they do something that benefits your scouts.

That's good advice.  We already operate with that attitude towards national, council, and district.  The danger is in going rogue   But then, most other unit leaders around here, that I have observed (and continue to see), don't take the time to read the literature, practice the skills, or put the "true" program into place.  

Scoutbook actually enabled our "departure" from district and council to a great degree.  So much functionality and promise... 

Alas, it doesn't sound like the future "solution" @CynicalScouter relayed holds much to look forward too...

(Lol, just realized I didn't mention regional...what do they do again??)

National has really failed membership on this one.

They abandoned direct member support for Scoutbook issues and pushed all interface through local council registrars, with zero training or warning (our council registrar was and remains livid.)

Our registrar doesn't have the time or expertise to fix any issues.  She just throws work tickets back at national.

With no responses from those, she kicked several issues to me.  I have been able to help some folks, but with most, I have had to post issues in the Scoutbook forums and get Scoutbook User Advisory Council (SUAC) volunteers to work issues because they have permissions.  God bless the SUAC folks, but this is just wrong that we have come to this.

I have been getting really tired of being "a useful idiot" for BSA lately.  I work diligently to put on a good program for our Troop, and our local council and national (over the years) have repeatedly <expletive deleted> on adult volunteers.  They are being paid to support membership, but I am seeing little value-added support.

Perhaps liquidation will provide the "creative destruction" needed to reset the Scouting program (sans BSA) in the US.

53 minutes ago, MattR said:

As a teenager I certainly had those tendencies as well. I don't think this is a generational thing so much as a growing up thing.

Yes, we all want that.  But that is the point.  Fewer are growing up.  We are a nation of children.

5 minutes ago, yknot said:

Yes that really is one of the best things that Qwazse has ever said. It is so profoundly true. 

Why, though, is scouting having such a hard time seeing this? 

Because the underlying motive (I perceive) in many youth, and their parents, is to aim for freedom from responsibility, rather than freedom to choose your responsibilities, and then living up to them.  I hope I am wrong.

3 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

I can’t tell if you are being facetious or not. Our unit commissioner attends all Pack, Boy Troop, and girl troop meetings. He lets us know when he can’t. He also attends a normal unit meeting of each, each month or so. He does this for three COs. Each have 2 or 3 units. So, I’m the 3 years I have been on the troop committee, the commissioner is always there to help. He does a great great job of not “getting in the way”, but is there when needed. 

You are the exception, I think.

Depends on your intended use.

With ground radios, line of sight is always an issue, particularly in mountainous terrain.

You may consider renting satellite phones for your trip

https://www.bluecosmo.com/iridium-satellite-phone-monthly-rentals.html

10 minutes ago, yknot said:

I don't know why they changed but outside of scouting BP has a problematic history that has nothing to do with cancel culture. Most scouters just know the official biographies about him. There has been a lot more published, some outright scurrilous, some serious research, that has to be taken as a part of the whole when considering him. For my part, I think he had some great insights into the minds of kids and how to engage them in constructive fun - an approach that I think works for girls as well as boys by the way - but he was by no means the paragon that the scouting world has set him up to be. I don't fault people for being a product of their time but he had some weird interests including a morbid fascination with executions. He was not a normal guy. 

. 

 

 

There are no paragons (save one, but that's a religious discussion).  There is no "normal guy."  I'm sure, being human, you have as many deep flaws as I do...

It is still "cancel culture"

From the link @CynicalScouterprovided, "By retaining his name as ours, we associate too closely with his entire legacy, including his racism, imperialism, colonialism, sexism."

That's a lot of "...isms", and belies a deeper self-loathing associated with the "woke"

Ahhh...more cancel culture...B-P is bad now 🤪

Wow, are they taking this step to distance themselves further from BSA?  BPSA marketed themselves as "traditional scouting"

They'll probably be changing their pages soon.

https://bpsa-us.org/

3 minutes ago, JoeBob said:

Fire me, PLEASE!!!

OK, you are fired!

Now, fire me, too, please!!🤪🤪