InquisitiveScouter

Just now, fred8033 said:

Obviously left leaning.

Lol, I think you meant "right", brother

1 minute ago, MattR said:

But when a video comes along with the title along the lines of "what the left won't accept" I know it's not going to help move things forward.

@MattR  On that point, I agree.  The video title does enter the realm of clickbait.  But the title does not diminish the importance and perspective of the thoughts, experiences, facts presented by, and advice of any of those it portrays.

2 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

The video was 100% on target and useful to the discussion.   The point is the D,E&I badge will pull in politics.  Period.  This is another example of BSA picking a fight that will damage BSA.

@fred8033, to your point, and to move the discussion forward with you I respectfully ask you to search for a You Tube video on the interview with Mike Rowe (an Distinguished Eagle Scout, I'm sure you know) titled The Scouts' wounds are 'self-inflicted'

To save those whose feelings would be hurt by the content of that video, and not to burden the thinly stretched moderator corps, I will not post the video here.

It goes to the heart of the discussion here.

22 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I am going to bet this rule.

 

"must pertain to the original post and respectfully move the discussion forward."

How does this not pertain to DI&E MB requirements?  

Req 1.  The video address facts and opinions of influential people who are members of a perceived disaffected group.  Helps to understand what "equity" and "bigotry" are and are not.

These people are perfect examples of "upstanders."  They witness unjust accusations and asperisons being cast, and they address them publicly with facts and experience.

Req 2.  Self-evident

Req 3.  Replete with examples

Req 6.  Yup

Req 8.  Yup

@MattR , I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

Lol, @CynicalScouter I just thought, maybe I should be a Merit Badge Counselor for this!

3 minutes ago, MattR said:

I removed the video because it's not helping, it violates the rules, we're running out of moderators, and I'm just tired of watching culture war. Nobody ever changes their mind once we hit this point. I'd suggest looking for a different approach.

Please help me understand which rule this violated?

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1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

If you are worried, why not try and lessen it? Or pencilwhip the scouts through?

Because subversion and deceit go against the Scout Oath and Law, and my own personal code of ethics.

10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

The massive, massive backpedaling from National continues.

Since the leak of the documents on Facebook, National is getting the FB and Reddit groups to lock down and/or delete posts and denying that the requirements are real.

I saw that, too. 

10 minutes ago, BamBam said:

You choose the views of millionaires to say what is wrong with Black Americans.They are so removed from the plight of everyday Black Americans. 

Your statement could not be more prejudiced, bigoted, racist, and classist.  And this merit badge will never help you see yourself in the mirror.

55 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Why? In all seriousness, this merit badge will happen. If you are concerned, then why not become your unit's MBC for it?

Because of the inherent political agenda of the entire enterprise, and the misguided intent with which it has been established.

I will not indoctrinate Scouts into the language and mindset of "social justice warriors".  Nor will I tread on territory I deem sacrosanct to parents.

Over the past few weeks, I have been deep in research and thought, prayer, and in discussion with conservatives and liberals whose opinions I value.  This may be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and ushers me out the door of the Boy Scouts of America.  Although I have a fundamental belief that our American youth are not being encultured to value who we are as a country (warts and all), and have sought to take personal action to remedy that through my years of participation in and service to Scouting, I find as those years have gone by, the BSA establishment and I have been on a divergent path.

I do find many kindred spirits at the grass roots level...in the units, which gives me validation and hope.  But my usefulness at the "institutional level" seems to be drawing rapidly near its end.

I have made a commitment to serve as Scoutmaster for the next six months.  My son just completed his Board of Review for Eagle Scout.  My daughter will complete hers in January.  The timing is perfect, and almost seems ordained

4 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

You realize you'd immediately be bounced as a MBC, right?

I would never in a million take this merit badge on as a counselor

This is the video I would share as a MBC:

Would this be fodder for the presentation requirement in #5, or for #6?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/judge-rules-father-who-raped-daughter-can-receive-sex-change-on-taxpayer-dime

https://www.ohiocrimelaw.com/blog/2014/01/tax-dollars-pay-for-sex-change-for-inmate-really/

reductio ad absurdum

Here is a National Office Hours video put out recently...

Discusses DE&I requirements and says they are already approved (and that was 12 Nov.)

Scouts may start earning the badge on 01 Jan, required to earn for Eagle on 01 May.

Also notes that there will be no pamphlet, just Notes for the Counselor. (Can't find those yet.)

Also says there will be rank requirements for Scout through First Class.  Rank requirements will not be in Scoutbook until 01 May.

https://scouting-org.zoom.us/rec/play/p2Uq0xy0QJ9DAOZf1mIK2AKqCPaI-sCDyhQ8XSF1ToF-3PRz6i7nykYtnGe1nuIea6nyz57NNl2lOtmS.P95iGTFSGTTs1iPe

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

I recall that after that BSA National statement came out that the Exploring program had to come out with a "we didn't really mean it" statement or else lose their LEO Explorer posts.

Where was that one?  Do you have a link?  All we saw was this...

https://scoutingwire.org/bsas-commitment-to-act-against-racial-injustice/

23 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

But I soon was replaced because instead of teaching about differences, I was teaching about how we are all the same. I talked about building relationships with those who were not like us through communication. sadly some folks believe if you do not agree 100% with them, you are the enemy, and will treat you like such.

Shame on you for trying to promote peace and harmony based on the commonalities of our human condition!  Back to the education camp with you!  You may return when you promote tribalism and identity politics veiled in terms like "diversity, " "equity," and "inclusion." 

https://medium.com/@samuelkronen/modern-tribalism-and-the-danger-of-identity-politics-33150fd257f2

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jordan-peterson-when-the-left-goes-too-far-the-dangerous-doctrine-of-equity

https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/blog-posts/lie-of-diversity/

Colleges and universities, judicial system, language, media, family, etc... 

This is just part of the long march through the institutions...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_march_through_the_institutions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institution

3 minutes ago, MattR said:

I think a patch showing Jupiter and Saturn crashing into each other would be a real hit.

Clash of the Titans!  (Although, they weren't Titans.)

3 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

@CynicalScouter & @InquisitiveScouter - I think you two need ratchet down the angst a few orders of magnitude here.  When I read these requirements, this sounds to like two pretty commonly accepted principles:

• Don't judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes
• Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself

If the adults can keep their hands off this merit badge and let a youth do as the merit badge says, it's allows the youth to go through a thought exercise in how they relate to others.  Are they welcoming of others, how do they treat others, do they unknowingly act in a discriminatory way, are they doing what they can to treat their fellow citizens with respect? 

It doesn't matter if your white, brown, black, or purple.  It doesn't matter who you love or are attracted to.  It doesn't matter what you think of your own gender and sexuality.  It's about how you treat each other.  It's about how you react to situations where discrimination happens around you.  It's about how you react when someone you know tells you they feel discriminated against.

I have every bit of confidence that youth, when put these sorts of questions - can reason them out in a way that is pretty consistent with the Scout oath and law.  

This all starts to get messy when the adults show up and start pushing agendas.  This is why the adults should leave this in the real of how youth relate to each other just as the requirements describe.

@ParkMan

How about this for the new DE&I MB requirements?

1.  Don't judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

2.  Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

The End

I could go for that...but I think those are already encapsulated in the Scout Oath and Law.

And the only angst I sense here is yours.

Physician, heal thyself!

7 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

This is a list of states that allow for parents to opt in/opt out their children from sex education in public schools.

I suspect there will be a push to have a similar opt-in/opt-out for scouts.

https://siecus.org/resources/opt-in-vs-opt-out-state-sex-ed-parental-consent-policies

•34 states + DC: Opt-Out

•4 states: Opt-In

•2 states: Both Opt-In & Opt-Out

•10 states: No Opt-In or Opt-Out

Thanks, @CynicalScouter!  This crucial piece hadn't even crossed my thoughts...

Wonder if the MB writers and those who will make the final decision to promulgate will consider the wide body of state law??  Or will they push something and have it blow up in their faces?? 

24 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Equally important is whether people perceive that they are being discriminated against.  Let the kids get the maximum benefit from the learning experience without adding in our own personal beliefs on the topic.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-power-prime/201908/perception-is-not-reality

Or...if perception is reality, then what do you do with this? https://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559604836/majority-of-white-americans-think-theyre-discriminated-against

The last time this was visible from Earth was during the Early Middle Ages in Europe between the Fifth and Sixth Crusades, and the reign of Genghis Khan in the East.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/jupiter-and-saturns-great-conjunction-is-the-best-in-800-years-heres-how-to-see-it/

If you can view it, it should be awesome!

Just now, CynicalScouter said:

I also suspect that the MBCs involved will simply skip those items outright and go with the rest.

Can't!  Must complete the requirements "as written"

21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I am trying to see how this might work. Would simply defining the terms work?

"Sexual orientation": a person's identity in relation to the gender or genders to which they are sexually attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, etc.

"Gender identity": Gender identity is the personal sense of one's own gender. Gender identity can correlate with a person's assigned sex at birth or can differ from it.

And leave it at that? Or is even this so much that we are going to see units defer this to parents?

No, that's fine...and, oh, by the way...let's offer this one at Summer Camp, too!  Jimmy is 15, and this is zir (Jimmy's preferred pronoun) second year on staff.  Ze doesn't have the merit badge zirself, but if ze teaches it, we will sign it off for zim.

Can you imagine how the merit badge mills will go with this one??

BSA has a good amount of work to do on this draft before they cut it loose to parents and some religious CO's.

5 hours ago, Navybone said:

Which requirement includes discussing any form of sexual conduct or gender identity other than welcoming them or that generalizations or stereotypes are wrong?  

How can you discuss those topics without the Scout understanding the meaning of the terms?

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I have been told that 2 units in my district will NOT have a counselor doing these discussions for the very reasons you cite. Instead they will be covered by the parents.

@Eagle94-A1 Right on...they should put in a blurb like that in Home Repairs MB:

"Either a parent or the merit badge counselor may supervise the Scout’s work on any Home Repairs requirements."

And Family Life "*This conversation may take place with only one or both of your parents or guardians."