InquisitiveScouter

On 4/7/2021 at 11:31 AM, Jeff1974 said:

My biggest YPT issue, as scoutmaster and a MB counselor, are scouts who email me without including a parent or another adult leader.  I cc a parent in response and remind them a parent or another adult leader must be cc'd on any communications.   Yet, it keeps happening, time and time again.  

I have been thinking about sending them a response like this (with their parent cc'ed...)

---------------------------------

Hello Scout!  Thanks for your email.  But, I am not going to answer it until you send it to me again and include your parent.

One important component of Youth Protection is that there are no private electronic communications between adults and Scouts.  Please help our Troop with this.

I'm looking forward to seeing your request again soon!

The Scoutmaster

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Review the 2021 Troop JTE Scorecard.  There are any number of things there you could take on to build a ticket.

https://www.scouting.org/awards/journey-to-excellence/unit/

And, if your unit has not followed JTE as a guide before, even doing that could be one of your ticket items.

On 4/2/2021 at 7:48 AM, scoutldr said:

THey will sue everyone and let the Court sort it out.  It could still cost you thousands in legal fees even though you are dismissed from the suit.

And that is another facet of tort reform that we need...

This should be a perquisite for Scoutmasters?  If unit financial situation permits, ask your committee to cover the umbrella while you are in the seat.

Thoughts?

People will sue you, especially if you have an umbrella insurance policy   (Never advertise that you do!!)

I also had an umbrella, and cancelled for the same reason...it only covered the excess of things that happened on our property.

If you ever find a policy that will cover you, let us know! (anonymously here, of course  )

You are covered by the Federal Volunteer Protection Act of 1997.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-105publ19/pdf/PLAW-105publ19.pdf

https://www.astho.org/Programs/Preparedness/Public-Health-Emergency-Law/Emergency-Volunteer-Toolkit/Volunteer-Protection-Acts-and-Good-Samaritan-Laws-Fact-Sheet/#:~:text=The federal Volunteer Protection Act,for its protections to apply.

However,

"Protection under VPA does not apply if the volunteer engages in willful or criminal misconduct, gross negligence, reckless misconduct, or a conscious, flagrant indifference to the rights or safety of the individual(s) harmed by the volunteer. "

I don't think any insurance policy will cover you under those circumstances, either.  This is the basic position of the insurance companies who believe they have a case to deny payment under claims for sexual abuse...they hold that BSA violated those standards.

Which is why we diligently follow Guide to Safe Scouting, Scouter Code of Conduct, and written BSA policies.  You signed an application saying you would do the same

4 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Back in the day, this was just what boys did. Usually we went to top, if we stopped short of that, it was to build a tree house. No Tell, Show, Do involved. Boys climbed trees, dogs wagged their tails...

Snakes and snails...

10 minutes ago, MisterH said:

• Tree climbing

You tell a boy this, and they are like, "Yeah right, where's the exit??"

14 minutes ago, qwazse said:

And thus expired the LARPing crew that one of my scouts thoroughly enjoyed ...  next time you ask where did all of the venturers go ... point to that.

I thought judo was allowed, too...when did they take that out??

9 hours ago, David CO said:

That's not my sword.

Silly...can't even have a mock sword (light saber) fight with pool noodles??  I see this in the pool at Summer Camp every year...

G2A Prohibited Activities:

14.  Activities where participants strike at each other, including martial arts, boxing, combat games, gladiator games, and reenactment activities such as live action role-playing games (LARP) and Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA) activities (exception: tai chi)

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/#b

9 hours ago, yknot said:

I apparently didn't handle it well. My kids suffered because I did not have as much time for them as I devoted to other kids. I was determined not to give them preferential treatment because they were mine and in retrospect was actually harder on them than I was on other kids. They also could never have a day off because if I had to be there, they had to be there although I did miss some critical moments in their lives outside of scouting because I had to be at the scout event while they were elsewhere. This created some resentment towards scouting on my part.  Further, if I was trying to be neutral about an obnoxious kid I expected them to be as well and that was very difficult for them.  In my defense I did not put any expectations on them as far as advancement  If I'm being totally honest, in retrospect, I would have leveraged my position more to suit the interests of my kids. My quest to be scout like, above board, and altruistic backfired with my own kids. 

Sorry to hear that.  It is tough to balance. I struggle with same, and find myself often in the same territory you describe...

Thank you for all your efforts.  I hope your kids will see the enormous amount of positive impact you are sure to have had, and realize that some of their sacrifice contributed to that positive impact on others' lives.

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Update: 03/22/2021

Police say a Penfield, PA man, Andrew Cole Shaffer, 26, got into the camp sometime between Jan. 18, 2020 and Feb. 8, 2020 where he removed four rifles, two shotguns, two crossbows, four paintball guns and four carbon dioxide cylinders."

Shaffer is charged with burglary, criminal trespass, six counts of theft by unlawful taking, and receiving stolen property, all felonies: criminal mischief, five counts of theft, unsworn falsification to authorities and receiving stolen property, all misdemeanors.

During centralized court on Friday, Shaffer waived his right to a preliminary hearing, sending all charges on to the court of common pleas.

He remains in the Clearfield County Jail in lieu of $100,000 bail.

 

More at source link, where you can read how a BB gun was used during break-in,  how a civilian used Facebook to find suspect, and how DNA testing lead to arrest, but you will not find out why paint guns were at a Boy Scout camp. 

https://gantdaily.com/2021/03/22/penfield-man-facing-charges-for-break-in-at-boy-scouts-camp/

You can shoot paintball at non-human targets...

G2SS: "Activities where participants shoot or throw objects at each other, such as rock-throwing, paintball, laser or archery tag, sock fights, or dodgeball"

Q: Can Scouts, Venturers and Sea Scouts shoot paintball or airsoft guns? 
A: Scouts, Venturers and Sea Scouts may shoot paintball guns and airsoft guns at targets only; they may not shoot at each other or at any form of a human silhouette target.

https://www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/shooting-sports/shooting-faq/

10 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

You know, Clan Macleod and Clan Ross have never fought against each other. That can change you know.

 I am Connor MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod. I was born in 1518 in the village of Glenfinnan on the shores of Loch Shiel.  And I am immortal.  😮

https://clanmacleod.org/

8 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@CynicalScouter, I believe that no BSA official will tell you why scouts-tenting-with-scouts-only is under “barriers to abuse” because the liability of giving an answer is costly beyond belief. Simply consider that someone would consider a child to have been groomed if they received kindness from a person who later sexually abused other children.

Now consider the vast number of abusers who are parents. More than one or two of them might have tented with their children. Those children, even if they weren’t abused, may claim that whoever permitted that tenting scenario to occur allowed them to be victims of grooming — taking the loose interpretation of the term.

I could be completely wrong, about that, and nobody has ever attempted to make such a claim. But the mere act of someone going on record to deny it would compromise the organization’s position.

@qwazse, yes, that is certainly a reason.  But why allow it in Cub Scouts?  Ages 7 to 13 are the most vulnerable to sexual abuse.

https://victimsofcrime.org/child-sexual-abuse-statistics/

https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cb/cm2019_4.pdf

https://americanspcc.org/child-abuse-statistics/#:~:text=411%2C969 victims (60.8%) are,2.3%) are psychologically maltreated.

1 hour ago, 5thGenTexan said:

 

LCs can't publicly mention anything is wrong due to directive from National.

OR

LCs are still in the denial stage of grieving 

OR

If LCs start publicly distributing information about the severity of what is going on current families start jumping ship AND recruitment in the fall is DOA.

 

I think 3 is the biggie.

All the above??

1 minute ago, MisterH said:

I always thought the point of Tigers and now Lions was to get the kids into Scouting before other activities could sink their claws into them.

That...membership = money

39 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Is it still a drop off and go deal?

For about 50% of our Scouts it is.  About 25% of parents hang around and talk, but don't contribute.  The other 20-25% are the ones who are really helping, mentoring, teaching, driving, camping, etc.

Pareto principle at work... or

More like Price's Law

https://dariusforoux.com/prices-law/

1 hour ago, mashmaster said:

The scouts move onto these other units because the program is more interesting for them.  

Well, duh!!  It is more interesting for them.  Unless very well executed, the Scout program, with the wide range of age groups, tends to focus more on the needs of younger Scouts.  I posit that is a drag for the older ones.  I know our older Scouts absolutely LOVE IT when we do program events for them only.

1 hour ago, RichardB said:

And yet when offered an opportunity to engage within the Service Territory structure (national) and be part of the solution moving forward look at the responses that followed.

  @RichardB, your request has only been up for 36 hours...give it time...

Also, would you mind elaborating a bit??

What is the task and commitment required, please?

And what role do you play, if you can share...I think you work with Health and Safety at National, right?

Finally, please let me know if you will vet folks through their council.  If so, I'm out... not on good terms here... for asking a LOT of the same questions and not accepting unacceptable answers

But if you want someone to shoot straight, not beat around the bushes, and will really help you with issues, I might be one of your lackeys

2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

This is what blows my mind (not really)

Until 2020 and the bankruptcy, by BSA's own admission, direct contact leaders were NOT all YPT trained. They only hit 99.9% in 2020.

As recently as 2018 that number was only 67.1%.

Membership and money over all else...

13 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Im not sure what you mean by cohort attrition, but I agree with the rest of your post.

The parents have to be on board to get the scouts pasts the first year, so we have an ASM team up with a TG or PL to work with and educate the parents. The ASM is there to give the scout and parents comfort that an adult is around for support. But, all communication goes through the TG or PL to show the family that the scouts manage and run the program. The ASMs main responsibility is to show outward trust of the youth leadership. All decisions go through the TG or PL. 

And yes, if a scout stays in the troop a year (really after summer camp), than they are likely to stay several years. 
 

Barry

We are saying the same thing...

By age cohort, I simply mean first year Scouts who are in the age group of 10.5 to 11 years old.

2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I have often thought the way to light a fire under National would be to get a group of adult Scouters to file a brief in the bankruptcy court indicating that BSA does NOT take YPT seriously, as indicate by the fact that when we as registered adult leaders ask questions we are given a) multiple answers or b) blown off.

Of course, any scouter who did that would a) be purged and b) if they had kids in program would see any chance they had a Eagle voided on the spot.

I think a pervasive malady at National (and many Councils) is simply not understanding who their primary customers are:  Adult Volunteers! Without them, you don't have youth membership, YP, program, or anything else...

On 3/18/2021 at 10:04 AM, CynicalScouter said:

No, that answer has precisely 0% to do with safety it simple says Scouts, BSA is a "youth led program."

Program.

Let me say it again.

PROGRAM.

How is my tenting with my son a safety issue? A protection issue?

And my S.E. told me "Ask national". And when I emailed I was given the above. When I asked the follow up, the email was ignored/I received NO response. Not a boilerplate response. Not the response you just gave (which is to blow me off and not answer the question). Simply IGNORED.

So, as I said, I'll start to believe BSA is serious about Safe Scouting when it starts to answer some questions.

 

 

@CynicalScouter, I have had many questions, also.  One particular question was regarding 72 hour rule and MBCs (whether they were "registered leaders" or not, and what was the difference if our CO approved them to camp with us.)  I asked our DE (when we had one), who did not have the answer.  Asked a more senior DE, and the FD, who had different answers (one of them was "blow it off" ).  Asked the SE, who said ask National.  Asked DE friends and another SE in separate council...another different answer!  

When I asked National, the YP person said right out, that I was trying to circumvent National's membership policies, and that I should just ask my SE, and that they questioned the leadership of our council.  He also included the SE in the email.  I thought it was really nasty, and I called him out on it.  Later, our SE used some very unScoutlike language to describe the National person.  LOL

In this particular case, it seemed to be about the money... not YP or Program

20 hours ago, Eagledad said:

That drop has been consistent since National started tracking drop outs. The cause is a human nature reality that is hard to get around.

I'm saying the 21% would be a lot less if not for the first year drop outs, which would expose the cub program problem to be even more significant.

I believe about half of the Scouts we see enter at 10.5 to 11 years old (and their parents) are not really psychologically ready for the shift towards more personal responsibility and less parent involvement.

Over the years I have seen attrition in that age cohort of about a fourth, at most.

If they make it through the first year , their retention rate thereafter is high...over 90%.

3 minutes ago, Owls_are_cool said:

@InquisitiveScouter We plan separately our campouts, so we meet the spirit of the requirement. We have several adults duel registered. I do appreciate the heads up to keep myself out of trouble with the district and council.

No worries... I think the "policy" is not well thought out, nor articulated, much like the no co-ed thing or co-ed buddy pairs... 

When you do a Webelos recruiting day, for example, isn't that program for a separate unit if packs other than your CO's show??