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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter

  1. 10 hours ago, mashmaster said:

    I am kind, trust me.  My experiences were all before this.  When I had to be Cubmaster, Den Leader, and Committee chair because they couldn't or wouldn't do their job.  So that is my experience.  I was kind by helping carry their load.  

    When I have committee members sign up to do things and not follow through which lets the youth down, I am there to pick up the pieces.  Because I am hear for the youth.  I am not doing this for the adults.

    So let me know how I am not being kind?

    mashmaster, you missed my intent.  I was answering the OP.  At the end, I quoted you to agree that these situations are a fact of life... 

  2. 2 hours ago, DuctTape said:

    the saturation of those with adult-led scouting experience happened a long long time ago


    2 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

    It was obvious the BSA no longer valued the independent-minded, outdoor-oriented scouter. 

    Gradually, our culture has begun to value Eagle Scout (or just "Scout" in general) less and less.  Someone previously mentioned, a Scout's rank was supposed to reflect what he can DO.  Those days seem gone.  I absolutely hate this "one and done" program.  It fosters an extremely poor attitude towards learning and retaining skills, and encourages taking "the path of least resistance".  They follow the lead of adults, because that is what their parents and our current culture have conditioned them to do.  They (and parents) just want to have you teach the skill, let the Scout demo it once, get the req signed off, RAM dump it, and get the badge.  This mentality will continue to erode the "brand", and eventually, our nation (seriously).

    Most Scouts I see now have no initiative.  I seek to train young people to look for, on their own, what to do it, and without prompting, to do it.  Maybe I am just an old fart, but this seems to be a more rare commodity.  I perceived this in the military, too...as the years went by, the youngers seemed more reticent to take chances.  However, it was awesome to empower them to make decisions, and then BACK THEM UP, even when they made mistakes.  Then self-reliant, yet interdependent, leaders emerged. 

    These are exactly the things BP saw over 100 years ago, and part of the reason he started Scouting...so I guess it is cyclical in societies.  Are we at, or approaching, a low point now?

    Adults make great Senior Patrol Leaders...but that is not our job.

    An outdoor, skills-oriented program is a pied piper for boys...they love it.  Have you seen the look on a young man's (or, yes, woman's) face when he chops down a tree?  Or swims a mile? Or actually completes a TRUE orienteering course? Or when he gets up in the morning after spending the night under the stars at 25 Fahrenheit? Or finishes 20 miles hiking in a day?  (And how do you feel when you still do these things?)  Magic




    • Upvote 3
  3. "The Good Idea Fairy" (TGIF)

    TGIF: "We really oughta do this idea I have!"

    Me: "That's a great idea!  Get started, and let us know if you need any help or funds to make it happen!"

    TGIF: "Oh, I don't really have time to do that.  I was just suggesting it for the Troop to do.  But it would be easy, and a great thing to do!"

    Me: 👿

    • Haha 1
  4. First, be kind.  Every person you know is fighting a great battle. Including you.  What is their battle?

    Present them with facts and ask them to follow through.  Offer to help only if you can (don't put another rock in your own rucksack).  Focus on behavior, not the individual.

    "You said you would do X by the end of March.  It isn't done.  How can I help you complete the task?"

    A word of caution...make sure your own house is in order first...

    I am constantly managing our Committee Chair, but events in his personal life are understandably distracting him.  We have no functioning COR.  So, I am de facto COR and CC while being SM.  Ain't nobody got time for that ;)

    16 hours ago, mashmaster said:

    It is kinda a fact of life.


    • Upvote 2
  5. 7 minutes ago, Ronmass said:

    throw a lot of mud against the wall...some of it may just stick"  Risk vs Reward...

    Don't see how National would weigh in on this.  It would erode their bankruptcy argument that councils are autonomous.  That is why they would only issue standards/guidelines to councils which choose to go ahead with their camps.  The guidelines/standards is the CYA for National.  Any departure from those is on the camp staff/ council that hired them.  My bet is, most of the holdouts are biding their time hoping for some relaxation of restrictions or state guidelines that give them some room to operate.  But hope is not a course of action 😁

    • Upvote 2
  6. 10 minutes ago, malraux said:

    Pretty sure ours are about to. There’s a big conference call tonight on the subject, at least on the cub side. But our governor has basically said no camps or pools open till July. 

    as a side note on that, does anyone have actual signup numbers. Ours are dead. No one signing up, no one asking about it, etc. even if it were allowed, we’d have to cancel because it doesn’t make any financial sense to run a camp with 5 kids. 

    We have 34 Scouts signed up for Summer Camp, and a crew of 7 youth for HA.  If they are cancelled, we will run our own programs, subject to state guidelines of course.

    • Upvote 2
  7. 1 hour ago, desertrat77 said:

    @InquisitiveScouter, we aren't too far from that now...the Zoom meetings and backyard camping trips aren't going away after the current virus subsides.  This will become the new culture of the BSA. 

    Lone Scouting for everyone!  Parents sign off requirements; MBCs are contacted through Scoutbook; interaction with the Scouting community is virtual; no need for a council!  Dogs and cats living together...mass hysteria!!  Oh, National still gets your registration fee :)

    • Upvote 1
  8. 1 minute ago, HashTagScouts said:

    It was pointedly said during our summer camp pre-meetings that National does not consider a registered MBC to satisfy the two-deep leadership for units attending camp.  Only SM/ASM/Committee members can fill those roles (any one of those dual registered as an MBC, obviously is a different matter).

    MBCs may only fill the two-deep requirement during a merit badge session when the Scout's parent or another registered adult leader is present.  This would apply for on-line sessions or visits to a Scout's home, or a meeting in a public place like your local library or a restaurant.

    If a council running a camp says the MBC cannot fill any two-deep requirement, then that council will be supported by National in implementing that policy.  An SE, as CEO of a separate legal entity [501c(3)], may implement policies more stringent than National publishes.

    Wanna dive deeper into the can of worms?

  9. 2 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

    While a MBC may not be designed to replace the direct contact leadership needs, a MBC as a second trained adult certainly fulfills the needs of youth protection barriers to abuse. 

    Only in certain merit badge situations, not something considered an outing.  And that opens a new discussion about what constitutes a merit badge session, versus an "outing"

    Again, policies are often written with ambiguity to protect the BSA...not you, nor youth ;)


  10. 1 hour ago, RichardB said:

    Definition of Registered can be found in Scouting's Barriers to Abuse:  

    Source:  https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/#a

    The chartered organization representative, or in their absence the executive officer of the chartered organization, must approve the registration of the unit’s adult leaders.

    Registration includes:

    • Completion of application including criminal background check and mandatory Youth Protection training
    • Volunteer Screening Database check

    As mentioned in the post above, a MBC isn't a unit position, and it's certainly not designed to replace the direct contact leadership needs of a unit (SM, ASM).   It is as described here:  https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/mb-counselor-guide/ 

    Wouldn't common sense include that one should be properly registered and classified according to the roles that they plan to fulfill for youth?  


    An MBC is registered, and according to the same criteria...

    • Completion of application including criminal background check and mandatory Youth Protection training
    • Volunteer Screening Database check

    The only substantial difference between a MBC and a Unit Scouter Reserve, is that the MBC requires MORE training!! :)

  11. 10 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

    @InquisitiveScouter, a stray thought about the helicopter parents you mentioned...one of my favorite discussions at a committee meeting involved a parent insisting that troop slumber parties had the same benefit as camping outdoors.  This parent would not accept any opinion to the contrary.  I agree, the parents often more challenging to deal with, and I'll throw in certain non-outdoor minded scouters as well.  As we know, the scouts are looking for a challenge.  Unfortunately, these challenges are often watered down to the point of meaninglessness by certain parents and scouters.

    This is also why we don't go to our local Summer Camp.  Our unit has a history of parents who would come and take kids out of camp for storms, soccer practice, karate, or their fourth cousin's (twice-removed) birthday.

    • Upvote 1
  12. 6 hours ago, awanatech said:

    I would also like to know where it states that MBCs do not count as registered leaders.  I have not seen that anywhere.  And isn't answering privately exactly the kind of thing we are trying to prevent with YPT and GTSS requiring 2 deep leadership, lol?

    The policy as written is poorly worded and unclear, specifically about what positions qualify as "registered adult leaders."

    You will not find this clarified anywhere in "official" publications.

    I recommend, until BSA amends the wording, you follow what you see as the plain language common sense interpretation.  If that means you see MBC's as "registered adult leaders", then go with it.

    This council does not intepret it this way.  In this council, MBC's are not "registered adult leaders."  And I have it directly from National Director of YP that councils may apply stricter standards than National intends when it comes to Youth Protection.

    It is a long sordid story, as Eagle94-A1 can attest, so I answered it privately because it is these kinds of questions that have gotten me blacklisted from district and council positions in our council.  (Still proudly serving at the unit level.)

    IMO, this has nothing to do with YP, and everything to do with generating revenue for National.

    Many units figured out that, since membership costs are unreasonable, they can cut their re-charter costs (by a third or half??) by registering the minimum number of adults to satisfy charter requirements, and having all remaining adults register as MBC's (which is a no fee district position.)  Since this tactic does not change your YP stance or background clearance requirements, you should forge ahead and change only if your council calls you on it. 

    I also recommend that you do not ask for an official answer.  What you get back will only restrict you further, cost you more, and gain you nothing in actual YP. 

    But, if you wish to go down that road, please email your SE.  If you don't like the answer they give, then stick your neck out and email Youth.Protection@scouting.org

    Be advised, National will trace you and email you back with a cc to your SE with any response. 

  13. 5 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

    the vets brought a certain mindset as well.

    26 year Air Force vet here...my Scouting mentors were WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam War Vets.  Most have passed on...

    They all had tactical patience with us Scouts...


    Never jumped in when things went wrong (unless it was an real emergency)...just looked at us and said, "Well, what are you gonna do now?"

    I see way too much jumping in nowadays...

    Have you heard of snowplow/helicopter/lawnmower parents?  We have them in spades ;)  The parents are more of a challenge than the youth!

    • Upvote 2
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