InquisitiveScouter
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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter
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1 hour ago, malraux said:
I believe you can dodge the registration fees the first year by first registering as a MBC and then submitting a multiple registration application to register as an ASM. That said, for the future, the unit level registration will be considered primary, and the district/council level registration (like MBC, commissioner, district committee) will be considered the multiple registration.
No, you can't. The registrars will not allow this. MBC is a "no fee" position. All unit positions are "fee" positions. Registrars can see this. (The only "no fee" unit position is Institution Head (IH) )
If you are in a "no fee" position, and register for a "fee" position, the registrar will charge you.
Once you have a paid "fee" position in a primary unit, you can then multiple into other fee positions in other units at no charge.
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13 hours ago, Wondering said:
I am wondering...
What happens when a merit badge counselor (who didn't have to pay registration fees) wants to become an ASM as well? MBC is a district/council position so how does that work if the MBC is a parent in a troop--would this MBC have to then pay fees to be dual-registered as an ASM for the troop? Can this MBC serve as a Troop Committee Member and vote?
How about a currently registered ASM signing on to also become a MBC so that he/she no longer has to pay registration fees at recharter? Can that be done?
Am I right to assume that adults who register for free as MBCs will not show up on the troop roster on Scoutbook?
This used to be a work-around to avoid registration fees... but no longer.
1. What happens when a merit badge counselor (who didn't have to pay registration fees) wants to become an ASM as well?
- They must fill out an application and pay the fees to become a registered unit leader/unit member.
2. MBC is a district/council position so how does that work if the MBC is a parent in a troop--would this MBC have to then pay fees to be dual-registered as an ASM for the troop?
- Yes. Note: MBC's are not registered with your unit. They have not been approved by the COR as a unit leader. This COR approval is done through the signed application. MBCs do not count for two-deep leader requirements on unit outings. They can count for two-deep only in MB counseling sessions, where the other adult must be a parent/guardian of the Scout, our a registered unit leader (for the Scout's unit).
3. Can this MBC serve as a Troop Committee Member and vote? Can that be done?
- Yes, but only by registering as a Committee Member. Note: SM/ASM's are NOT members of the Troop Committee. The Scoutmaster Corps does not have a vote in Committee Meetings. They are there to advise and report. However, I have been a part of many units that just allow anyone who shows up for a meeting to vote. It should not be that way, but many do it. The SM/ASM's work for the Committee! The feedback on their performance comes through the Boards of Review that Committee Members do.
4. How about a currently registered ASM signing on to also become a MBC so that he/she no longer has to pay registration fees at recharter?
- It doesn't work that way. If the person wants to stay as an ASM, the unit must pay the fee at recharter. See note under #2.
5. Am I right to assume that adults who register for free as MBCs will not show up on the troop roster on Scoutbook?
- Correct. MBCs (if that is their only position) will not show up on your Troop roster. They are not members of your unit.
When Scoutbook was first out, you could put people on your roster there without having them pay registration fees. So, that's what we did: register them as MBCs, and internally have them be COR approved. It saved a lot of money on recharter. We followed the letter of the law, but not the spirit of it. Basically, it comes down to this, the BSA wants its money! Yes MBCs have to do YPT and get a background check done. So, administratively, other than the COR-approved unit application, there is no substantial difference between an MBC and a Unit Scouter Reserve. We actually kept our leader roster at the minimum of five (to recharter the unit), and put in the other positions in Scoutbook. (It saved us hundreds of dollars) Someone at National got wise to this scheme (maybe), and now that the Scoutbook roster is tied to your official unit roster, you cannot do this any more.
Does that help answer?
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51 minutes ago, MattR said:
But isn't the problem of no ownership what caused this mess in the first place? If COs weren't doing their jobs overseeing units then how will making councils responsible for oversight solve that problem. Now, DEs have the added responsibility of unit oversight? This seems to me like a bandaid.
Bingo! We have a winner!
Well, we can hire someone for oversight, but then, your council service fees increase. On the bright side, you may actually get some service then!
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9 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:
I don't want to derail the other threads... I am looking for more how it works than anything.
Obviously I am not new to Scouting, but I am new to having to get a new CO. We have been chartered by the local Methodist Church for decades, so this doesnt come up often.
Are there any requirements for an organization to be CO other than a willingness?
We don't need a meeting place.
We don't need a place to store equipment.
We will need an organization to fill the role though. The group we are thinking about knows all about the Units as many of the members are with or have been involved in Scouting in the community.
I just need to know what all the ducks are and get them in their rows. And fairly quickly I guess.
They have to agree to recognize your COR (you have to have one for chartering) and sign the Charter Agreement
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Normal.
Being a bit of a worry-wart tells me you want to do a good job as SM, and that the Scouts are in good hands.
You are responsible for all things health and safety related, so it is normal to have anxiety over those things. It keeps you sharp and frosty!
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Just finished the film with my lovely bride, and my daughter [inaugural Eagle Scout who is a rising college junior). Although wifey has heard all points from film from me before, they were never delineated, condensed, and connected by me in such a good way as the documentary does.
She thinks (and so does DD) I should leave the organization.
Dear Daughter said, "It makes me ashamed to be associated with Scouts." I haven't processed that yet.
One question that popped into my head: Does the Congressionally sanctioned BSA "monopoly", and the revenue stream generated from that unique position, contribute to the cultural intransigence within BSA we have discussed in this forum?
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7 minutes ago, PACAN said:
This will be interesting to see how this is executed. BSA National pushing more workload on the LCs without any resources. Will they hire more staff and spread the cost to all units via "we need more FOS"? LC will now "own" units and will they have to have LC approval to spend a nickel?
I wonder if this was "you take the UMC units or we will LDS you" ?
One UMC church stopped sponsoring their troop and pack and they got an new sponsor with the American Legion.
Lots of issues.. Just my thoughts.
We will probably experience the same amount of neglect as do we currently 😜
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4 hours ago, yknot said:
They do love food but a lot of places will not allow you to have food. We can't have food items in any of our meeting locations -- we use a couple churches and a couple schools -- except a park campfire ring. Also, trying to do snacks in units with a lot of food issues is getting difficult.
Yeah, we have multiple Scouts with nut allergies, one with a shellfish allergy, and even one allergic to...get this...bananas, strawberries and citrus fruits! Poor kid 🙁
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One of our guys just finished National Camp School at Ten Mile River. He said they announced they will be selling approximately 8,000 acres (of 12,000) . No price mentioned...
Will be sold to State of New York??
Anyone got words on this??
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Our Chief Scout ought to be someone who deeply benefitted from the program... an Eagle Scout whose course in life was changed by their experiences in Scouting...someone who realized the "American Dream" and has continued in Scouting because of their success and a desire to give back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream
If we tell their story like that, and make them the "face of Scouting," imagine the appeal...
Demographics of the individual shouldn't matter, but the Chief Scout story would be more appealing if they were a minority, "underprivileged", immigrant, or etc. It hasn't been long enough to have the Chief Scout be a female Eagle Scout...
However, IMHO, there are way too many other corporate obstacles to overcome for the installation of a Chief Scout to be a panacea.
As @Cambridgeskippoints out, the Chief Scout won't be the be-all the end-all of a "turn around"
Although I am weathering the storm as best I can in my little corner of the world, I get the feeling we are on a sinking ship, and there is not likely to be a "turn around" for BSA. I don't have confidence in the crew or captain running the ship, and my life jacket is on...😞
I'll be looking for the film on the 16th, and interested to see if that story gains any further traction in detriment to BSA.
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The condition is fair. I'd give between $25 and $50. But, I have been out of the collecting game for about 10 years.
You may want the owner to contact someone else for a valuation:
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43 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:
The PR folks just really instinctively felt that everything had to be given a positive spin. They genuinely saw that as right and proper. and not an untruth.
How terrible it will be for those who call evil good and good evil, who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness, who substitute what is bitter for what is sweet and what is sweet for what is bitter! Isa. 5:20
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20 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:
statements that were so obfuscating that they became both meaningless AND inaccurate.
And when these are done intentionally, we call them lies.
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30 minutes ago, elitts said:
Two Deep Leadership is maintained by all the other registered leaders present at Summer Camp
I believe this applies only if they are registered in your unit. That is, registered leaders for your Scouts must be approved by your CO, and registered in your unit.
However, National will defer to your local council on how to interpret and implement this.
And, how this applies to OA is anyone's guess...
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Lol, got this email today:
Looks like we are really pushing the country club experience... read the part on accommodations a few times...
I think the messaging in this dilutes and distracts from the mission.
What say you?
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Hello InquisitiveScouter,
I’m personally reaching out to you today to share some information I think you’ll find exciting. You know, just the other day I was sharing a memory of my early Scout camping adventures with a friend who likes to camp but was not a Scout. I often find it hard to put into words why those outdoor experiences created such strong bonds and fond memories.
How often have you wished your family and friends could understand the amazing experiences you had in Scouting? If you could only share those outdoor adventures with them now. Well, great news! Now you can!
I am personally inviting you and your “crew” to experience the great outdoors as never before. BSA Family Adventure Camp is a one-of-a-kind vacation for adventurers of all ages. And everyone is welcome––you don’t have to be a Scout to participate!
We all know, no one does camping like the BSA, so you can count on endless family fun at any one of our select BSA camps. Enjoy a wide selection of amazing family activities unlike any other camp experience like kayaking, ziplining, climbing, ropes courses, shooting sports, and leather crafts alongside traditional activities including swimming, hiking, horseback riding, and of course, time around the campfire. Activities that keep you connected to what matters most: each other.
BSA Family Adventure Camps are in some of the most incredible destinations - whether you prefer the mountains or the ocean. And there are accommodations for every type of camper. For you conventional campers we offer the traditional rustic tents. If there are some on your invitee list who prefer a little less rustic accommodations, there are a variety of options from bunkhouse rooms to luxury deluxe tents to hotel-style rooms.What’s more, you don’t have to worry about the food! All BSA Family Adventure Camp packages include all the hearty meals and BSA hospitality you’ll need. Come for a week, or just stay a few days. Reserve your outdoor adventure today and make some new memories with those who mean the most to you. Book your trip today at https://www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/family-adventure-camp.
Looking forward to seeing you around the campfire,
Jim Rogers
BSA Family Adventure Camp Chairman
Eagle Scout, Reno, NV
P.S. If BSA Family Adventure Camp doesn’t work for your family this year, check out your local council camp summer offerings! We just want you to get outside and make new meaningful memories.
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Hello @BisonBison, welcome to the forum!
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2 minutes ago, Spatulate said:
That is what I am reading. Sigh.
The path forward in some form of scouting is narrowing.
It would be a bit of a pain, but you could just form a "youth group" with the Y, use the program without uniforms and badges, get some insurance, and have fun Scouting!
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3 hours ago, Spatulate said:
Thanks - I had not seen that one yet.
@Spatulate... all Scouting is local. Just like the BSA has some policies, procedures, and actions which many disagree with, you may find the same in OSG. (They changed their name to OSG in order to "cancel" Baden Powell.)
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4 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:
The Ohio Department of Natural Resources has purchased 477 acres at the former Woodland Trails Scout Reservation and will make it a part of state’s wildlife preserve in Preble County.
ODNR paid the Miami Valley Council of Boy Scouts of America $1.815 million for the property, according to Brian Plasters, Ohio Division of Wildlife spokesman.
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Jeffrey Schiavone, Miami Valley Council scout executive/CEO, said the final parcel, the core area of the camp, has not been placed on the market for sale. The portion that was sold last week was deemed as “excess land.”
“This sale will allow the Miami Valley Council to make our contribution to the National BSA’s Survivor’s Trust, along with all local councils across the country, which will achieve two key imperatives: equitably compensate survivors of past abuse and ensure the mission of Scouting to continues in our communities,” Schiavone said. “Since the beginning of this process, we’ve been hyper-focused on continuing Scouting’s long-standing tradition of environmental stewardship, and we are very happy that the land is placed in the hands of a conservation-minded organization with ODNR.”
More details at source link:
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If you know the other folks who are operating under this construct, get the National contact from them and ask.
Or, try all councils surrounding yours, even if the distance is great. Start with the registrars, explain the situation, and see if they believe their SE will accommodate. (it does take SE approval, I believe...)
You are absolutely correct. And that the SE would not do this is inane.
We lived in Canada for a few years, and had our Scout in Lone Scouting through the (former) Direct Service Council. This has now been absorbed into a District of the National Capitol Area Council. If you hit other dead ends, try them...
https://www.ncacbsa.org/directservice/
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Just now, Eagledad said:The two signatures on the Blue Cards don't make sense to me, and set the SM's state of mind of being more involved. But, our district SM's had to be corrected in training that the signature is required at the beginning, not the end of the scout's required tasks.
The post-MB signature process is important. A unit leader should ask these questions:
1. How'd it go? Did you enjoy this MB? What did you like about it? What did you dislike about it? Then find out what the Scout wants to work on next. I often used the post-MB session to help the Scout pick the next MB, and then start the next blue card right then and there.
2. Did you like working with this MB Counselor? Did you review all the requirements with the MBC? Did you complete all the requirements with the MBC? (If the answer is "No", and it occasionally is, you work with the Scout to find a way to complete the badge. This is one of the hardest things to do, and it is impossible to intercept them all.) Did the MBC have you complete all the requirements as stated? Did the MBC require you to complete anything extra that was not written in the requirements?
3. Would you work with this MBC again? Do you recommend other Scouts in our Troop go to this MBC?
4. Did you thank the MBC? When the Scout has done this, I also send a brief email or text to the MBC thanking them for their support. No, it isn't required, but a Scout is Courteous, and when someone has given their time to help you, you darned well better thank them. If I had to make a 13th Point of the Scout Law it would be A Scout is Grateful!
Spend a bit more time with the Scout, and you've done a Scoutmaster Conference! Sign two things off!
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4 minutes ago, Tron said:
False, SM cannot refuse a blue card. Page 70 of the GTA makes it very clear that the decision to pursue the MB is the Scouts decision. The Scout has approached the SM about the MB which is the only requirement to get the blue card from the SM.
Lol, well, he did, so he can. Agree that he is probably wrong to do so, but we do not have all the deets on this one.
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One more article to help inform... https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/08/25/merit-badge-work-done-blue-card-issued/
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1 hour ago, AScoutIsHonest said:
This is the last episode in a series of exchanges I have witnessed that I find troubling.
BIG NOTE before the discussion: Your Scout may work on any merit badge he wants, at any time. He does not need a blue card from a unit leader to work on a merit badge. (However, some requirements may need counselor approval before starting.) He needs the blue card to help make the connection to a merit badge counselor in order to sign off on his work (or perhaps help him navigate his way through some particularly difficult requirement.) So, tell your Scout to begin working on any and all merit badges he wants, RIGHT NOW! It helps him to keep track of his work and progress...especially if you are going down the road of selecting a new Troop after all this. (I neither encourage nor discourage the use of "workbooks" [see http://usscouts.org/mb/worksheets/list.asp ], but if your Scout uses one, he must make sure the requirements are current by comparing it to requirements listed at https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/advancement-and-awards/merit-badges/ )
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My first question would be, were you actually present and/or did you witness and hear these interactions between your Scout and the SM? If not, then please feel free to call the Scoutmaster to clarify what happened, and when your Scout can meet with him to sign the blue cards. Note, the SM does not "approve" a Scout to take a MB. The blue card exchange 1. gives the SM an opportunity to mentor your Scout, and 2. creates a demand signal for the introduction of a MB Counselor. If your Scout already has MB Counselors "selected" that is fine. Also note the verbiage on the card where a Unit Leader signs " I have discussed this merit badge with this Scout and recommended at least one merit badge counselor."
If yes (you witnessed/heard), then proceed to the next person, the Committee Chair. You can do this in two ways. 1. If you wish for your Scout to help navigate through the situation, he can request a Board of Review. A BoR is not just for Scout advancement. It also provides a feedback loop for Troop health and Scoutmaster Corps performance through the parents and Committee who sit on a BoR. Or, 2. if you believe the situation has already deteriorated to a point (and from your post, if all is true, it has...) where you do not wish your Scout to pursue this, then please call the Committee Chair directly to discuss the situation.
If the Committee Chair does not address this promptly, then it is time to seek another Troop.
For clarity's sake, would you also please share the following?
1. How many Scouts are in the Troop? (Helps provide insight into the "control freak" claim. If your Troop has 10 Scouts, then SM signing all is no biggie. If your Troop has 30, it is an indicator.)
2. How was this SM's decision exclusively to sign all blue cards put out. Verbally? Email or written anywhere? If verbally, did you hear it? Perhaps there was a miscommunication? A decision like this should be put in writing to all the Troop, in case there were members not present...
3. How many blue cards are we talking about? If less than five or so, this should not be a big deal. If your Scout brought me 20 blue cards, I'd ask him to work out a time when we could sit down together and go through these and have a discussion. I would never say "No" to signing, but I'd like to prioritize, because the person signing must provide info on counselors, and this takes some time. (I personally like to contact MB counselors first, as a courtesy, to see if they have the availability. Not required, but does help smooth the process.) I'd like to ask your Scout about his priorities, and then help work through the prioritized list. Also, if your Scout has a lot of "open" blue cards, I'd like to have a chat with him about setting priorities and finishing what he starts. I might negotiate with him. Which are the top five you want to work on? When do you want to finish them? (I did have a Scout ask for 14 blue cards at once. I did not say "No", but I did say "Not yet..." We had a discussion about MB Counselors and respecting their time also. The Scout chose five to work on now, and when completed, kept on working on his list. He learned the process goes much faster when you complete as much work as you can before initiating the blue card process. This also reduces the amount of "misfires" where a Scout starts but never finishes a badge with the counselor.)
4. Ask your Scout if any other Scouts are in a similar situation. If yes, then maybe discuss with some other parents to find a way ahead.
5. Is the Troop going to Summer Camp? If not, then do you know about "Provisional Troops"?
That's enough "peeling back the onion" for now...
Rifle Qualification Clarification
in Advancement Resources
Posted
Very poorly worded....
I would read this to say you must determine whether you can adjust sights before you begin shooting for score...
If you can adjust, then do requirement l) and show that you can shoot 15 shots (five groups of three) that can be covered by a quarter. (It doesn't matter where that grouping is on the target.) Then, m) make the adjustment and then shoot 25 shots (five of five) for score (which aims for bullseye) In this scenario, Scouts must shoot a minimum of 40 rounds.
If you cannot adjust, you must shoot 25 shots (five groups of five) that can be covered by a quarter. Again, these groupings can be anywhere on the target. Then explain how to adjust. In this scenario, Scouts could complete the requirement with a minimum of 25 rounds.