InquisitiveScouter

Anyone seeing a live feed yet for the conference??

NVM...got it

1 minute ago, malraux said:

While I understand the point, its hard to balance the goal of checking everyone who accompanies a group with a rule of every part of the program is open to parents to observe.

Not really...we do this, for overnighters.  Wanna camp out with us? Gotta have a background check...

11 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Why not at this point?

Done

Wonder if MJ gave National a heads up...so they could prepare for the potential excrement storm??

P.S.  OOO Reply from SE

Should I forward a copy to our SE?

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

I said earlier, my pure tinfoil hat theory is that this was timed to hit right when the bankruptcy ballots were getting into the mailboxes of the victims to vote no.

It could be pure coincidence. But there's a cynical part of me (get it, ha!) that says this press conference timing was not a coincidence and is timed to have maximum effect on the vote.

So yes, literally an October Surprise.

Here's a really tinfoil hat idea: CynicalScouter = Kosnoff

2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

If there are emails or documents showing or suggesting that BSA is actively engaged in not doing enough, that's on thing.

Hmmm...It was MJ who tried to skewer me in an email back in 2019 when I pointed out 1) widespread confusion with and implementation of the 72-hour policy, 2) inconsistency in application of the "registered leader" policy, and 3) incoherence of a 2-deep policy that did not extend to MB Counselors.

He cc'ed my SE on the return email, and my SE subsequently removed me from all District and Council positions to try to silence me.  The SE said he did so under the guise of addressing my outspoken efforts to drive transparency in council finances...  Of course, he retained me as one of his useful idiots as we have one of the best unit level programs in the council.

Wonder if those emails will be in the mix 😜

This is like an election year "October Surprise."

And I feel guilty for having a certain sense of schadenfreude.

14 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

No it is not. But the current scouts are absolutely part of the equation in terms of how the final settlements are made.

For me that is absolutely part of the equation. 

When I think on this, I can honestly say we don't really need our local council.  Everything they provide us could be done (and in most cases, actually already is being provided) through National functions (policy, materials (books and uniforms), standardized training) and local volunteers (local training courses and events).

Could anyone else here live without their local council?  With the technologies we have now, could they go away without a great deal of impact to Scouting?  I think so....and so, BSA toggle?

So, I am curious... does anyone here think the offer is fair? (I do not...)

Do you believe the LC's can put up more than they have? (I believe they are short of what they could "comfortably" do, and that they should be giving an "uncomfortable" amount.)

Understand this would be nothing but your opinion, because the spectrum of LC finances is wide...

15 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Specifically, the troop can send a letter to the leader’s COR and IH advising them that, with regard to the advancement of a scout in your troop, this leader broke trust.

Regarding publicity, the troop could write a letter to the editor of the newspaper that this scout claimed an award under false pretense.

You'd have to be careful with this... slander/libel territory

58 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Please note the Penn requirement includes any adult , anywhere,  (see time defined), school volunteer, school bus driver, sunday school,  parish priest, Scout leader from Nevada staying at a Gettysburg campground  for more than (?) 2 days, etc. 

@SSScout,

The PA requirement (for those that delved into the link) is actually three background checks:  1) A PA State Police Criminal Record Check, 2) A PA Department of Human Services Child Abuse History Check, and EITHER 3A) An FBI Background Check with Fingerprint Record OR 3B) IF you have been a PA resident for 10 years, a sworn affidavit of not having been convicted of a whole list of child abuse related crimes.

There is no cost to volunteers for these checks, except in the case of 3A, the FBI Fingerprint check.

My question is, if PA requires the volunteer to obtain these clearances, do the councils in PA do any further background checks?

Post Script...

Did a news search...of course a law is really only good if it is followed and enforced:

https://www.witf.org/2020/01/16/groups-are-skirting-pa-law-intended-to-protect-children-from-abuse-in-wake-of-penn-state-scandal/

12 hours ago, Wondering said:

I am currently a unit level volunteer and handles troop registrations and memberships.  I am also a merit badge counselor.  I am happy with these "jobs" but I find myself getting frustrated at times when I see that a lot of people around me don't do the "job" they are supposed to do.

Welcome!!

Get to know your local registrar by name...talk with them often   You both can save each other a lot of frustration!

As far as other people not doing the job they are supposed to do (or have agreed to do), this usually stems from ignorance about what their actual tasks are, then a lack of knowledge on how to do them, then from fear of being found out that they don't actually know what they are supposed to do or how to do it.  It usually is not a result of laziness or lack of diligence.  This is where a good Committee Chair comes in, with a detailed list of expectations and tasks for a position.

9 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Reminds me of a Robert Heinlein quote, the last line of which is:

"Specialization is for insects."

 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

Love that quote...I still need to learn how to set a bone   Of course, my computer programming skills have perished, too,  since college with BASIC, COBOL, and Pascal...dang I'm old...

meh...been to one, and not going to another.  Recommend a National Leadership Seminar (NLS) over a NOAC, if you (and he) have not yet attended one...

https://oa-bsa.org/training/national-leadership-seminar-nls

3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Rubber stamping only takes 30 seconds.

I see where this train is heading: the person who sticks his/her hand up to say "I want to teach it" will be insta-approved. No real vetting.

It's not cynical if it's true, right??

No one at National will touch this...

And since you said it was a couple of years ago, no one else will touch it either.

Here is the sad truth:  it is EASY to lie, cheat, and steal your way to an Eagle rank badge (and certificate).  I see it happen on numerous occasions.  One of the biggest dirty secrets in Scouting is the sham of a merit badge program most summer camps put on. 

But, ultimately, what we hope for is that the values we seek to instill will take root and grow into a way of conducting your life.  For example, when a Scout asked me to be his Eagle Project Coach, I was looking over his record and asked him about his Hiking Merit Badge..."So, tell me about your 20 mile hike in one day...was it difficult?"  He replied he had not done a 20 mile hike, and that the counselor (a lawyer in our community, council board member, and fellow "Eagle Scout") had signed him off on it because of hikes they did over a few days on a trek.  I told him that, in that case, he had not earned his Hiking Merit Badge, and asked him what he thought he should do about it.  "I'm gonna hike 20 miles" was his reply.  When he had done it, he came back to me and said it was one of the biggest physical challenges he had in Scouting, and he felt proud of the accomplishment.  He is an adult now, and still very active with our Troop as an ASM.  I tell him this was actually a bigger ethical challenge than a physical one, and he passed it superbly.  This young man IS AN EAGLE SCOUT.

My suggestion is to let it go.  You will see it again.  Simply speak the truth when you do, and follow @MattR 's advice above.

You can set the example by getting (if you don't already have one) your own Scout Handbook, reading it, and practicing the skills and knowledge in it.

This helps you understand what the Scouts are going through as well...

Go to the source...

1 hour ago, jcousino said:

They can not  be a patrol of a boys troop, they must be their own troop

Correct, on paper and in theory, but that is not how it is playing out in reality in many cases.  I think that is what @mrjohns2was referring to.

Esse quam videri

7 hours ago, livitup said:

Hello everyone!

I was a youth scouter (aged out at Life) and active in OA in the early '90s.  My son and daughter are currently Life and Tenderfoot Scouts. I steadfastly avoided adult participation in my children's units, because both of them struggled to interact with other youth and adults without constant reassurance and validation from myself or my wife. I felt that by not being there, I was actually giving them the gift of learning how to forge those relationships with peers and adults.

My daughter had a great Cubs pack and bridged to a great troop that, unfortunately, disbanded the following year.  Her current troop was not a good fit (it was more of a military-style troop, and she needs something a little less formal) so she has decided not to re-up with them. Which brings us to...

The CO for the troop my son is in doesn't currently have a girl's troop - though they have expressed interest in doing so, if one could get off the ground.

• My daughter needs a troop
• The CO for my son's troop would love to have a G-troop
• Nature abhors a vacuum, therefore
• I volunteered to lead the charge (and SM, if they'll have me) a G-troop for the CO
• I further suggested/volunteered to serve as an ASM in my son's troop as "practice" for SMing the G-troop when it goes live.

I'm attending the committee meeting this week to sync up with the rest of the adults managing operations for the current troop.  I don't worry much about my son - he's matured a lot and I'm confident in his capabilities. (Quick Dad brag - he'll be starting his term as SPL effective the COH next week!) I do worry that my involvement may stunt my daughter's acquisition of the life skills that Scouting is so good at teaching - we'll walk that tightrope and see what happens.

Anyway, I'm a voracious reader and life-long learner, so I've been going through a ton of the posts here over the last few weeks.  I've always figured knowledge is the ultimate embodiment of "Be Prepared," so I've been doing a ton of researching and reading. I tend to jump in to things with both feet, so I'll probably be posting more once I'm "official."

Good to meet you all!

Welcome!

Is there a female over 21 who is willing to sign up with the G-troop??

3 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

It hasn’t significantly affected us. Girls enjoy being in a girl-only organization. Our model is centered on being girl-led, learning-by-doing and cooperative learning, which resonates strongly with today’s girls. Girl Scouts remains focused on building courage, confidence and character.

Marie Gieringer, CFO of Girl Scouts-Diamonds of Arkansas, Oklahoma and Texas

She has to say that...whether the facts are otherwise or not.  Notice, no stats or raw numbers in the article...

3 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Having a troop mentality that you don't cancel is important.  Otherwise, it does become a bit too easy to cancel one or two a year.

This^^^

The only reasons we cancel trips is if the roads are treacherous (ice storms) or we have a hurricane blow through

There have been many times we have changed destination at the last moment and camped in the field behind our church.

23 hours ago, David CO said:

I totally disagree with all of this record-making stuff.

Agreed.  I find it extremely difficult to believe that, over 50 years, not a single month was without camping.  Record keeping, weather, unit leadership, what constitutes camping (was it in one night in someone's backyard just to keep the record going??)...too many variables, with too much possible human error, bias, and stretching, to get to something like this.

Knowing what I know from 35+ years of Scouting experience, I glance sideways at things like this...much like a Scout earning (actually, "being awarded") every merit badge.

35 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

The issue I'm running up against is how to make Scouting work for the rural poor.  Cities should be easier, if you can get the timing, locations, and volunteers right.  In rural areas, it's more complicated.  If the kids don't have transportation, getting to a meeting is impossible.  

Lone Scouts with an itinerant Scoutmaster working on a grant, if the parents are unwilling/unable to be the Lone Scout Friend and Counselor.

I like the idea, and believe you should scope the idea first by defining the problem.

What, exactly, is the problem you are trying to solve?  And then explore the question as to whether Scouting is a solution to that problem.

The way to have phrased your OP, it seems like you are putting the cart before the horse.  That is, you have a solution (Scouting) that is looking for a problem (some sort of public health issue that can be addressed by a youth program, and the crafting of a policy to implement your personally desired solution.)

On 9/5/2021 at 8:37 AM, SSScout said:

What is Lion, Tiger, Wolf, Bear?   

And there are no lions in The Jungle Book.

23 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

all be a wasted effort.

Naw...every time they rehearse and prep, they gain a deeper understanding of what the Order of the Arrow is...

"You need seek no rocky summit.   These high places are within you.  All the natural world around you shows you clearly your reflection.  This Ordeal is but a pattern for a journey whose directions are the whispers, urgings, promptings deep within your hearts and spirits."