InquisitiveScouter

I'll even pull the applicable verbiage out: "Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered. " "Jackets and Their Insignia Multicolored jackets are available for optional wear by youth members and adult leaders. The universal emblem should be worn on the left pocket or, in case of a jacket without chest pockets, in the same area. The Philmont bull emblem is especially designed for the red wool jac-shirt to be sewn on the left side above the pocket. On all jackets, Philmont Scout Ranch, Philmont Training Center, or high-adventure base emblems may be worn centered on the right pocket or in the same relative position if there is no pocket. The Order of the Arrow has adopted the jac-shirt as its official jacket, and members may wear the 6-inch national Order of the Arrow patch centered on the back. The large Philmont, NESA, jamboree, National Camping School, and international participant emblems are approved to be worn on the back of the jacket. Only one such emblem may be worn at a time."

I know a Vigil Honor member who was accused of murder, convicted, and exonerated on appeal. It was appropriate that they put him in the IVF during the trail and after convicted. But once exonerated... ??? They will never re-instate him, even though our justice system cleared him, and expunged that record. I think because there is now an easily accessible electronic history of news articles, and that would make people nervous. BSA considers him "damaged goods".

If there are no patches on it, wanna sell it? I give these as gifts to awesome Scouters...

17 years later... Welcome to the forum @Smokediver! Sorry to hear this happened to you. BSA professionals are very much more worried about image than reality. This is why the head-in-the-sand (or should I say hiding the dirty laundry?) tactics of dealing with child sexual abuse within the ranks have come back to bite them. You are a victim of the pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction... Thank you for 39 years worth of service to Scouting. If I had the power, I'd re-examine the details of your case, and re-instate if warranted. BSA will most likely never do that, unless you are a big money donor, or well-connected in the C-suite. In their eyes, you and I are expendable, and easily replaced...

Agreed... But, perhaps the reason they have bumped this up is because of the level of fundraising he needs to do. Project costs more than $2500, right? Didn't you say fundraising that amount needed district approval where you are? Well, only professionals can approve fundraising projects, I believe. Form says needs signature by "Authorized Council Approval*" and then "*Councils may delegate approval to districts or other committees according to local practices." We do not know what your local practices are... Please talk to someone on the phone. Dithering over email is not getting anyone anywhere...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with gender separation, when it is by choice. This is a basic right called freedom of assembly (association), guaranteed by the First Amendment. I may associate with whomever I choose... You don't like it? Then work to get the Constitution re-written. Once re-written, I'll support you 100%. I do believe the current BSA model is neither well thought out, nor sustainable. "Separate but equal" is a bad idea. Chartering Organizations should have the option to have a single gender Troop( or Troops), or a blended Troop. Both have pros and cons. I do not believe there is "one size fits all" for what we are trying to accomplish. Give Chartering Organizations, parents, and Scouts the options to choose what program they'd like to participate in, according to the dictates of their conscience. And, it is not working out in reality. Many B & G Troops under the same CO are really "blended" troops just doing all their stuff together. And I am fine with it. Yes, it is against BSA policy, but I believe the freedom of assembly right is a higher ethical standard.

Concur... the only pertinent step in the advancement process is that a Scout "learns". And that can happen in many different ways... A Scout can learn the Seven Principles of Leave No Trace on his own. When he feels he is ready to be tested to "Recite the Leave No Trace Seven Principles from memory." , he asks. If he passes the test, great... sign him off. If he does not pass the test, he goes back to learning, until he feels he is ready again. You can offer instruction, but not require it.

The youth is not "signing off" the requirement. The youth (or, we should call them the Instructor) is simply using a column already printed in the Scout Handbook to indicate instruction is complete, and the Scout is ready to be tested. (The check mark column on left side of requirements lists.) However... if the Troop is "requiring" that this column be used, and is holding up a Scout from being tested or advanced because of it, then that would be adding requirements. I did not interpret the explanation as saying this "must" be done... just that this was a way to communicate it had been done, and that the Scout was ready to be tested. So, @KublaiKen, do you "require" that this left check column be "signed off", Or can a Scout simply present himself to a Scoutmaster-approved evaluator and say "Jimmy just finished instructing me, and I am ready to be tested!"?? If the Evaluator says, "No, your instructor did not sign in your book.", then you are violating advancement protocols. I can see the utility in the method if there is some time/space between instruction and testing. Say, Scout gets instruction at a Monday Troop meeting, but there is not time built into the meeting plan for testing. So, Scout gets the instructor check in the book (or checks it himself and maybe writes in instructor info), and then on Saturday, during the camping trip, he grabs an SM-approved evaluator and gets tested.

Do you think it needs to be a survivor of abuse from within Scouting? Or someone with that experience in any arena?

Yes, don't use a script. You are really selling yourself, not some tickets. Just know your stuff and talk to people. Connect with them. Or, come up with your own script. You can do it. Here's a teaser... "Hi, my name is Zhu, and I'm a Scout in Troop 4321 here in Malibu. We are putting on a great breakfast for Mother's Day! If you do not have plans already, the breakfast will be at Camp Josepho near Crestwood Hills, at 9 AM on Mother's Day. Tickets are $10 per person, and it is all you can eat! After that big breakfast, you can take a nice walk with your Mom to enjoy the outdoors in our camp. Would you like to hear what's on the menu?"

Oh, and 9) if you are not attending, you'd better have a good excuse. Like, you don't live with your mother, or something like that. If a potential customer asks if you are taking your Mom, and you just say "No", you will probably lose a sale. If you offer a valid explanation, they may be more sympathetic and open their wallet. So, 10) go out and earn a little money to help your family buy tickets for the event, if you can go.

OK, stop saying "fined." You are not being fined for anything. 1. Having the right attitude is the first tip for selling your tickets. 2. Know your product. What are the menu options? What time does it start? Is it a buffet, cafeteria-style, or served at tables? Is it kosher, or are there vegan or vegetarian options, or some other menu specialties (gluten free, allergy free)? Is it open to non-Scouting families? Will there be alcohol served? (Should be "no", but make sure you know the answer, in case someone asks you.) Are there flowers, gifts, keepsakes, pictures, mementos, included for the Mom's? How much are the tickets? Is there a limit to the number of tickets (or seats at a table) that someone can buy? Do you have a flyer you can hand out? When is the deadline for buying tickets? How can someone pay you? (Cash, check, Venmo, Zelle, etc ??) How will you handle donations? (that is, if someone does not want a ticket, or cannot go, but donates $5 to you instead, how will you handle that??) Etc, etc, etc, Find these things out... the more you know about what you are selling, the better salesman you will be. 3. So, your market is people who are willing to take their Mother to a breakfast for Mothers Day, under any constraints you find in #2. Find those people. They are all around you. Contact them! The best way to sell something is face to face. Email, texts, etc. are going to have a very bad return. For example, if your event is open to all families, then ask your neighbors or friends at school if they want to take part in this wonderful opportunity to do something nice for their Mom on Mother's Day. And all they have to do is show up! Make them understand why your product is good for them! 4. Be polite and courteous. If someone says "No, thank you!", then you say "OK, thanks for your time, and have a great day!" I have seen people change their mind based on salesman's courteous reaction to their "No." Doesn't happen often, but it does happen! 5. Find out if you are allowed to wear your Scout uniform. If yes, then wear the best uniform assembly you have... shirt, pants, belt, socks, the whole nine yards... You WILL get more sales if you are in uniform. Be clean, showered, hair reasonably tamed, fingernails clean, etc. Look people in the eye, and smile. Some people may even buy tickets from you with no intention of going, just because they want to support you. 6. Tickets will not sell themselves. You will have to get out and do it. 7. If your mother and grandmother are still with us, find someone in their lives who would like to do this for them (Dad, grandfather, brother, sister, aunts, uncles, etc. ), and ask! 8. Ask your teachers, coaches, tutors, Scout leaders (who are not trying to sell tickets themselves). Best wishes!!

Who, what, when , where, how, why?? Tell us about the event, intended audience, who is putting it on, where is it, when is it, what is the purpose of the event??? Then we can give you some great ideas on how to sell tickets for it 😜

Then, it is not a "fine." A Scout is expected to pay his way... so pay your way, either through the fundraiser, or with the buy-out.

Welcome! Who, what, when , where, how, why?? "Fine" is probably a "buy-out" cost. That is, for the Troop fundraiser, there is an expected amount each Scout will raise to offset unit expenditures. If you do not raise that amount, you must make it up. This is normal, and helps prevent someone from taking advantage of the diligent fundraising efforts of others in the Troop.

Excellent. And as long as the Troop is consistent in applying this for all Positions of Responsibility, then I am all for it! A good leader communicates, confirms understanding of, and enforces expectations 😜

"Rules for thee, but not for me." Unfortunately, we have to work very hard to avoid these kinds of people. Yes, it is less headache all around. But, it is also a life lesson, as you will NEVER be rid of them. Sometimes, you have to feed the dragon. As for me, my tactics are to learn all the rules, and try to think about why they are in place. Then, I find ways to work within the system to maneuver around those people who do not know/follow the rules and just want to have their own fiefdoms. There are times when you win, and times when you lose. Some of the greatest warning phrases you'll hear when you are encountering these folks are: "That's the way we do it here." (The message here is that "We know better." and "We are above the rules.") "That's the way we have always done it." (Versus an explanation and justification for the rule. It's just plain lazy thinking...) "That's the way I was taught." (Well, maybe you were taught incorrectly?? What does the book say? What is the reason for the update?) Asking you "Why?" (instead of asking themselves "Why not?")

@swilliams, Another point... Are you prepared to fully fund this project now? Doing a GoFundMe, or soliciting donations from anyone outside your family will require additional paperwork which will further slow things down. That paperwork DOES have to go to council. But, only AFTER the Proposal has been approved by Council or District Project Approval Representative. See Fundraising Application Page A (did he already get signatures on this one, too??) If you have the ability to fund the project, do it.

If you have records for all this, we can submit an appeal to National and get this Master Sergeant his Eagle Award. Mostly, we would need the application. If he did, in fact, have his requirements complete before 18, National will award the Eagle. They are not usually martinets about the date of a form... You willing??

@swilliams, sent you DM as well, but for the benefit of others: If he has all signatures, have him email the Workbook (with pdf of signature page) directly to the Council or District Project Approval Representative. Contact info on proposal page B. Give a brief explanation... something like Eagle Project Coach made a commitment to submit on such-and-such a date, but this has not happened. Ask for a reply email to acknowledge receipt. He has off from school today for the holiday, right? When he sends it, have him cc his SM and Unit Advancement Chair. (again, see contact info page.) And just make sure you are holding on to any email history sent. This will buy him extension time, if needed. Any extension granted may only cover time lost since he submitted his proposal to Eagle Project Coach. His other impediments on previous projects will probably not carry any weight. ----------------- Also, some process notes... "Council" should not see his workbook until after project is complete (even if that is their process.) This is all in the hands of volunteers at this point. Specifically, the Council or District Project Approval Representative, who is most likely a volunteer. ------------------- Have a heart to heart with your son, and make sure he is committed to this. It is worth doing! If he gives up, he will regret it for the rest of his life, and be bitter about the people who have let him down thus far. Convince him to go down fighting. If he does have today off from school, after his sending in the Workbook, turn him to his Merit Badges. He has a lot to do!

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. $10K - $15K is a good range for houses in your area...

Cutting off their nose in spite of their face... I see you are in Central NJ. DM me, please. If we are close enough, and you are willing, you can have your Scout multiple into our unit. We can get that proposal moved in quick time... I also have some bandwidth available and extensive contacts. Let me know what MB's? (Some can be done entirely over Zoom, if your Scout has done his/her homework.) Always remember... it's the adults that ruin Scouting 😜

I sympathize with your plight. And despite all the promises and pronouncements made, I have always harbored a suspicion that this was never about justice for victims like you. It was only a legal/business play made by BSA National to reduce exposure and protect assets. The real outcome (currently) is that it has added insult to injury. I am still hoping for some sort of positive outcome for all of you. Specifically, if the current Chapter 11 falls through, I hope the window opens for many of you to bring perpetrators and/or responsible parties to court for judgements or settlements. God be with you, and grant you some peace...

Only they got the script wrong... "I was an Eagle Scout." For shame... I AM an Eagle Scout 😜

No. We group patrols by age. If younger ones want to join a backpacking trip, we have to factor in the two-years in age difference rule for tenting. Otherwise, elders help the juniors. If a small group, we do not allow for "strung out" backpacking. Put the slower paced up front. If you have eight or more, split into two crews. Recommend not backpacking with more than 12. Gaggle, noise, space, courtesy, impact, etc... If you are lucky enough to have more than twelve (and four adults), split into groups that go opposite directions on a loop. High fives when you pass each other out on the trail... Also, with larger groups, we will divide into crews of three, four or so (two buddy pairs, or a triple). Set out about five to ten minutes apart, after map study and rally point are understood. Slower paced first, then a little faster, then a little faster. If multiple adults, two adults go after first or second group, but do not pass. Two adults go after last group as sweep. Learn trail etiquette... step aside and let faster groups pass. If only two adults, then one adult goes behind first group, one goes with last group (fastest). At the rally, last group arriving gets a full rest period. Then start off again in same order (or revised, based on slower paced first.) This spacing is a health and safety issue for me. We all need to provide mutual support in an emergency. Stringing out makes accounting for everyone, and taking advantage of first aid resources and rescue options extremely difficult. One of the most mind boggling things to me is the tendency of older, faster Scouts to hike with their face in the backpack of the person in front of them. So, a few times during the trip, we practice lightning safety spacing... 100 feet apart while making our way to "cover". You should try this. It is an eye opener for group dynamics, communication, planning, and keeping track of the party.