InquisitiveScouter

Once again... @DuctTape for National Commissioner!!

@curious_scouter, it wasn't your recharter paperwork that was due on 16 Nov, it was your recharter PAYMENT that was due!! 😜 Never forget... it is all about the money. The service (even four months later) to youth is just a collateral benefit of having your cash. <sarc off>

I do support returning funerary items and remains, if the tribal representatives request, as these were most likely removed from burial sites. I also support museums and educational organizations (universities, etc.) asking a particular tribe for permission to keep and display those items and remains in a respectful way, so that everyone could learn about the culture and customs of their people. @Armymutt, you don't...

During our district Klondike Derby, I offered a one hour training class to adults, through five sessions during the day, while their Scouts were making the rounds to their stations. Got 21 adult students, and great feedback on offering it while they were already in attendance of another event that did not require their participation or constant supervision... (in a warm place, btw ;P)

@CLC848, welcome! This is an extremely common malady in any organization. And this malady is compounded by the not-yet-formed prefrontal cortexes of the people you are dealing with. Here's a good read to set the stage: https://developingchild.harvard.edu/resources/what-is-executive-function-and-how-does-it-relate-to-child-development/ Here are some observations along with ideas to "better capture" and hopefully create a culture to introduce corrections. 1. People often think they are being "negative" when they point out things that need correction. This is why "roses, thorns, and buds", aka "Start, Stop, Continue" (SSC) offers a better mindset to ID trends in an organization. Use this methodology to have Scouts say something positive and something of a vision for future success, along with identifying something that went wrong. And, from a cognitive perspective, if you put the "something" that went wrong in the middle, it makes a bitter pill easier to swallow. That is, when identifying issues, never start with, and never end with the thing that went wrong. Also, challenge Scouts to come up with all three BEFORE they start talking. You have to model this behavior a few times to get it going: "Start: Scouts, we should start checking our Troop/Patrol First Aid Kit regularly, preferably before a camping trip. When we needed some items this weekend, they had not been replenished in the kit. Stop: Something on this trip that must stop is for Scouts to not bring their Scout Essentials. Being prepared for the weather is very important. When it rained, a high percentage of our Scouts did not have rain gear and got wet. Because we had some lower temperatures, some Scouts started to get chilly, and we had to stop our activity to prevent them getting hypothermia. Continue: Scouts, a great thing I saw on this camping trip was the great teamwork of the Panther Patrol. They were always working together to get their tasks done, like cooking, cleaning, and breaking camp. Good job, Panthers!" - The idea here is simply to identify trends... not to pose solutions or create tasks to solve the issues. That is done later at a PLC... 2. Don't let SSC turn into a gripe session. And don't make it so long that Scouts do not want to participate. You do not need input from every single person who was on the trip. A good way to get input is by Patrol. Tell the patrols to work together to come up with an SSC input. Then, one person from the Patrol will present their input during the SSC session. It is important to do this at the end of the trip. We usually do this after our Scouts' Own, and just before we load up the vehicles to travel home. We have tried it before Scouts' Own, and after we return to the our meeting place, and both times seemed to detract from the session. Finally, as far as capturing... ask the Patrols to text their SSC to the Troop Scribe. If you try to have a Troop Scribe scrambling to capture ideas during the session, somethings things get lost in translation/transcription. (Also, do not have adults give input during the SSC. This is the quickest way to shut Scouts down. Get input from adults later, privately. Yes, an adult should model the behavior to get it going, but once the Scouts "get it", let them go with it. This creates a sense of ownership in their minds. And yes, you will see things they will not... resist the temptation to pontificate. It is not YOUR TROOP! ) 3. Have the SPL ask the Patrols to think about the SSC items on the way home, and propose ideas, solutions, or ways to continue a practice in the culture of the Troop. The Patrol Leader then brings these solution ideas to the next PLC to address. We do not have a Troop Meeting the week after a camping trip. That next meeting night is always a PLC, and one of the agenda items is to address the SSC from the trip. The PLC can then identify and task potential solutions or ways to cement specific habits into the Troop. Tasks must be assigned to an individual or a Patrol. For example the PLC may say, "The Quartermaster must check the Troop first aid kit the meeting before an outing to ensure we have all the items in the Patrol/Troop First Aid Kit checklist on page 109 in the Scout Handbook. The QM will report to the ASPL when this is complete. QM is responsible to do, and ASPL is responsible to follow up and check that it was done." (Notice how this is kind of a SMART Goal?) 4. The most difficult part of this process is the "follow-through" or the evaluation. As an adult leader, you have the role of teaching and mentoring Scouts in how to create a "culture of continuous process improvement." After the PLC, our youth do not follow-up very well to track that tasks are done. Reading the Minutes from the last PLC helps. (Notice, this means you have to have Minutes 😜 ) As SM, I would remind the SPL of tasks their PLC have identified, and challenge the SPL to follow through to make sure tasks are completed. This is often a short conversation before a Troop Meeting starts. You mentor, and the SPL is on the hook to make sure his Troop gets things done. As SM, I would also ask ASMs to mentor the PL on the same... if a Patrol had a task identified, a brief conversation to remind between the ASM and PL is all that is necessary. Help the PL understand that one of his youth leaders will be checking on his completion of that task. 5. Finally, as an adult, hold your tongue unless it is an item related to health and safety for your Scouts. Hope this helps you turn "Lessons Repeated" into "Lessons Learned"...

I learned a lot of new words and ideas 😛😜😜

Citizenship in the Community (not Nation) ------------------------------------------------------- 4. Choose an issue that is important to the citizens of your community; then do the following: (a) Find out which branch of local government is responsible for this issue. (b) With your counselor's and a parent or guardian's approval, interview one person from the branch of government you identified in requirement 4a. Ask what is being done about this issue and how young people can help. (c) Share what you have learned with your counselor. ----------------------------------------------------------- Not hard for us in our community... we have had lots of folks... Any person paid for by local government could fit this requirement. - Public Works could talk about roads, sewers, water, or any other items they deal with - Animal Control could talk about the importance of proper pet care and how to work with your pet while out in public - Police Officer could talk about crime prevention - County Health could talk about how vaccinations are important for controlling communicable diseases (see recent news articles about measles and polio outbreaks) - Emergency Management could talk about the importance of being prepared for natural disasters etc, etc, etc Many of these overlap with other Merit Badges. And a phone conversation is fine...

Thank you for all those dedicated years of service! I care, brother! YIS

I am commiserating with you in most things. Our Troop is still good at the moment, but I have seen a decline over the past two-three years that is now what I would call a trend towards an end, unless something changes. All good things must come to an end.

Here's another one... In the early 80's there was a US Army Ranger program for youth at Mt Yonah in Dahlonega, GA. (It is still going, but much different today... https://www.nega-bsa.org/Ranger) We had a few of our older Scouts attend. Of course, they became immediate "experts" in climbing and rappelling 😜 They wanted to showcase their new-found coolness, and the venue our Troop selected was our annual Scout Show. We worked with the fairground managers and our local power company, and sank four telephone poles into the ground there. Then we got the lumber, hammer and nails, and built a 30 foot rappelling tower. It was the hit of the Scout Show. We had an assembly line of Scouts helping people tie a Swiss seat harness. (A requirement only recently removed from Climbing Merit Badge. And, no, there was no Climbing MB back then.) Visitors would then climb up ladders to the top, and rappell down a doubled-up Army-issue twisted nylon rope, with a single carabiner. No helmets. A few of us demonstrated Australian rappell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAnxYKUVNVI&ab_channel=SkillsforClimbing (That's not a video of us, of course.) Again, thank the good Lord, no one got hurt. But, knowing what I know now about safe climbing practices... we were dangerous, and put a lot of folks at risk.

If you submit the form for a carwash in July, and get declined by your council, I recommend you do it anyways. (I would be absolutely shocked if they declined.) Just inform parents that you are doing it on behalf of your CO, to benefit your unit through them, and that the BSA insurance does not apply in that case. BTW, do your unit parents know that BSA insurance is supplemental only? (There are some exceptions where it is primary...) That is, it only covers the copays for things. There are a few other benefits, but I would not rate them as significant enough for you to cancel your car wash. Again, inform them and let the Scouts and parents decide. I would not view that as a violation of the "Obedient" point of the Scout Law, in this case. You attempt to get it done under their guidelines. If they refuse, their own policy says your fundraiser is not covered under the insurance of BSA. Fine, do it as a CO group. One last caveat. Make sure your COR knows and approves. The CO CAN ABSOLUTELY SAY NO.

Please don't portray it that way to your Scouts. We live in a society of rules (and laws). No, Scouts do not get to make up ALL their own rules and laws. (Inmates running the asylum?) It's a good lesson that, any time you are dealing with money, you must be careful and know what you can and cannot do. It can also be a safety issue. Back in the 1980's, we youth leaders wanted to earn some money. We had adult leaders with chainsaws who agreed to teach us how to use them. And we had an old beat up '73 Ford farm truck with a trailer to haul away the wood. We then went out and cut down trees as a fundraiser. As long as it wasn't near power lines or structures, we would do them. And back then, you only had to have one adult present for a Scout function. It is only by the grace of God none of us ever got hurt... We made a heck of a lot of money, but it was foolishly done. It is a good thing there are rules made by adults, in many cases 😜

Always good to point out, though... units may accept unsolicited donations. That is, let's say you are selling popcorn, and your potential customer looks over the popcorn offerings (at their outrageous prices) and declines, but offers you $5 for your Troop. May you accept? Of course! And your unit keeps 100% of that. If the donor asks for a receipt... well, that is worthy of a separate post, and only if you want to know...

https://www.parentadvocates.org/nicecontent/dsp_printable.cfm?articleID=6970

@Maboot38, consider the source... I think in your other posts, you indicate this policy information came from a Unit Commissioner. Great, but the UC isn't the authority on this. What @RememberSchiffposted is... That is, the council can set additonal fundraising policies above and beyond what national lays out. I read through the link he posted. (If that is your council, I recommend it... it is well done 😜 ) The policy statement mentions a few key points: - Units can conduct all kinds of fundraisers - Units must apply for permission from the council to conduct a fundraiser (see the form) - "Do not schedule a project that conflicts with established dates of money-earning in the chartered organization, council, or community. " This is a deconfliction standard, so that units aren't all doing different fundraisers which impact each other, and cause "donor fatigue" in the community. Basically, it looks like that council is saying "We will most likely not approve unit fundraisers while our council popcorn sale is ongoing." - If you elect to go rogue, you will not be covered by our insurance. If you want to do a fundraiser, submit the form and see what happens. You never get what you don't ask for.

You bring up a great point! You have to "know what right looks like" before you can imitate it... This is why good leaders create a vision of success for their teams. The leader sets what "right looks like", and then has to communicate that vision to the team, and lead them toward it. If your council organization is floundering (and it sounds like it is) you don't really have a good model of what "right looks like" And, I have met many a professional who does not know what right looks like... we can teach them, too (if they are teachable, but that is another post.) That is one of the great uses of this forum. There are folks here who have seen the magic of what right looks like... And it is a beautiful thing to behold. BUT, it takes WORK to keep it right!! There is no vehicle on land, no ship at sea, no plane in the air, nor craft in space that doesn't require constant vigilance, checking, and maintenance by her crew. The same is true for our organizations. When an organization reaches a "somewhat" state of excellence, its decline is inevitable if the leaders "rest on their laurels" or people in the organization just want to rest on the work of others. This is one big contributing factor to why organizations fail. There must be an attitude of constant improvement through training, accountability, humility, sharing of leadership and followership, and transparency... An Air Force pilot gave a great TED talk on this... see link below for an approx. 10 minute video. [I would have an idea correction for him... change "perfectionism" to "excellence". ] (And, btw, this culture is prevalent in ALL Air Force flying squadrons, not just the fighter squadrons 😜 ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YErxkPyPP8M&ab_channel=TEDxTalks

You, my friend, are experiencing Webelos 3!!

Welcome, @AmberG! Thanks for the post, and for reviving an old thread. Trust is extremely important. It is earned, and can be easily lost through inconsiderate acts.

Welcome!

So, did you get your Stegosaurus Husbandry Merit Badge?? 😜

Agreed.

Totally agree... and I did not ask anyone to decide between anyone or anything. I merely noted observations and experiences... and I agree that all these decisions are local. However, that was not the deeper point... I'll endeavor to make the point here, after answering a few more of your charges 😜 Sure, concur... but ambition (and enthusiasm) must never be confused with ability nor achievement. And I never remarked on probability of the event. I merely noted the timeline, and asked the question... No, I sought to head it off long before that. Since you are ignorant to my circumstances, I'll enlighten you... I submitted my Eagle Scout application 11 days before my eighteenth birthday, but only at the urging of my Scouter mentors, Council Exec, and Council President. I had decided not to submit it. For a variety of reasons, including some of those I mentioned, but also, from a religious perspective. You see, during my journey as a Scout (started at 13), I became a Christian (at 17), and I was learning quite a bit in my new faith. I had reached a personal conviction that I did not deserve the Eagle rank... But, when a group of my adult mentors (including the Council Exec and the Council President) found out about this, they staged an "intervention" (if you will). They sat me down and explained that, that of the Scouts they knew, I was among the top in their regards. And that, if anyone had attained what they thought was an Eagle Scout, I had. My most treasured mentor spoke to me about law and grace... In my thinking, by the law, I was not deserving of the rank. But he asked me to see it more through a perspective of grace... in that, no matter how hard we try, we can never fully live up to the Scout Oath and the Scout Law... none of us... and if that is the case (which I know that it is), then who among us ever deserves to be afforded the honor? This is where the grace (if you will) comes in... in that we must trust in the adult leaders around us that we have reached a level (or measure) of character, citizenship, and fitness that marks an Eagle Scout. I trusted in their words and judgement, and submitted the application. I even said this in my Board of Review... and told them all about being caught "trading" merit badges as a camp staffer, and how I had seen this as disqualifying. My Board of Review chose to see it in the way my mentors did... and they awarded me Eagle rank... You read way too much into the post... Yes, I assume the same with anyone who wears an Eagle Scout rank (or any person at all, to be frank)... but I reserve any judgement until I get to know the person. You must get to know them, and see their character (and this takes time). The real measure of a Eagle Scout is not in the achievement of any requirements... it is in the realization that asking perfection of anyone (including yourself) is impossible. The real merit is in the continued striving to do so, and having the conviction to take up that mantle every day, through every failure and triumph... to keep those lofty ideals ahead of you as an aimpoint; to recognize and admit your weakness in attaining them, yet continuing to strive for the mark... I've not found that awareness or conviction in any 12 year-olds I have ever met... and in only a few 22, 32, 42, 52, 62, 72, etc .... year-olds.

Some wandering thoughts on @PACAN's question, "How does this happen?"... Well, as you know (but for the edification of others), the requirements can be completed in 19 months, with the following being the "limiting" factors... - 30 days for Tenderfoot fitness requirements - 28 days (four weeks) for Second Class fitness - 28 days (four weeks) for First Class fitness - 4 months to Star ("be active" requirement) - 6 months to Life ("be active" requirement) - 6 months to Eagle ("be active" requirement) So, give or take a day or two, 1 year and 7 months to complete in minimum time since joining. And what is the earliest one can join Scouts, BSA? "Youth can join a Scout troop who have earned the Arrow of Light rank and are at least 10 years old, or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10, or who are 11, but not yet 18 years old." Parse that out, and a youth can join Scouts (begin working on requirements) on their 10th birthday (with either Arrow of Light or 5th grade complete.) So, the earliest a youth can be awarded Eagle Scout rank is at 11 years and 7 months of age. (Can you imagine that??) The difficult part in accepting this is that we have in our minds what an Eagle Scout "ought to be." And it is highly unlikely that most under the age of around 13 or 14 are "there." (In my experience, they aren't "there" until about 15 or 16.) But there is no objective way to measure that... To quote an old mentor of mine: "If the minimums weren't good enough, they wouldn't be the minimums." The real issues in most of these cases lie in two areas: leadership and merit badges From my observations, we (collectively, the adult volunteers in Scouts, BSA) do a horrible job in teaching/crediting leadership, and in holding to the requirements for merit badges as counselors. Many Scouts hold a position of responsibility in a unit, but do little to nothing to fulfill the leadership requirement, because no one sets standards, expectations, and goals, and then holds their feet to the fire to meet those standards, expectations, and goals. From the Guide to Advancement 2021, "4.2.3.4.3 Meeting Unit Expectations. If a unit has established expectations for positions of responsibility, and if, within reason (see the note under “Rank Requirements Overview,” 4.2.3.0), based on the Scout’s personal skill set, these expectations have been met, the Scout has fulfilled the requirement. When a Scout assumes a position, something related to the desired results must happen. It is a disservice to the Scout and to the unit to reward work that has not been done. Holding a position and doing nothing, producing no results, is unacceptable. Some degree of responsibility must be practiced, taken, or accepted." Secondly, most Scouts (including me, when I was a youth) do not "earn" the merit badges. That is, Scouts commonly do not complete the requirements AS STATED (nothing more, and nothing less.) This is especially true at summer camp. There is a whole lot of pencil-whipping going on. G2A 2021: "7.0.0.3 ...Universal to all the merit badges, however, are the methods of advancement, personal growth, and adult association. Here we will focus on adult association, which is furthered through experiences involving discussion, counseling, and learning that are facilitated not only by a merit badge counselor, but also by the unit leader." How many of your Scouts were awarded merit badges from a 15 year old at summer camp, without ever having the "adult association" that is supposed to be "universal to all the merit badges" ?? And how many sat around a picnic table for four or five days and were given a badge, without having completed the requirements AS STATED??? So, like you, when I see a really young Eagle Scout, or someone with all the merit badges, I know there is an extremely high probability they did not "earn" it. If we want "better" Eagle Scouts, then we adults need to be better people to set the example for them, and hold them accountable for the requirements as stated. Is there any one of us who consistently aligns our actions with our words in the Scout Oath and Scout Law? No. But I am only responsible for my own actions, decisions, and integrity. I will try to keep my honor bright, and when I wake up tomorrow, I will try to be better than I was today. I do find that my uncompromising attitude on requirements drives a lot of adults and youth away, to find the easier path that is out there. As I tell many parents, it is easy to lie, cheat, and steal your way to getting an Eagle Scout patch. But having the patch doesn't make you a good Scout. There are a handful that become true disciples of the Scout Oath and Law... and these become really capable Scouts and leaders. Some even have Eagle Scout rank. Your thoughts?? Happy New Year

@SSScout, Hope I catch you before you fire off a note (pun intended) to BSA... Please check your notes (pun #2), and you'll note (pun #3) that 14 of the 15 bugle calls required, indeed, only four notes. Only Call to Quarters requires five (the fifth being the single low C, see link) http://www.usscouts.org/mb/bugle_calls.asp Now, it is a travesty that they dropped the requirements to play 10 of the 15. Just more signs of the times, I guess...

With this, I am in complete agreement. Thanks for finding some good common ground.