InquisitiveScouter
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Posts posted by InquisitiveScouter
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mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
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2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:
Looks like South Korea (govt, media, citizens) has started judging accountability for fiasco. WOSM? BSA? Canada?
"While thousands of Scouts spent their time away from their original campsite, ruling party politicians sought the person accountable for the disaster that put hundreds of youngsters who were heat-stricken and exhausted to clinics and hospitals. Kim Hyun-sook, , the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family , had her name put on the top of the list of the people who were the source of the problem by the ruling People's Power Party lawmakers."
Whether she has been a setup scapegoat, I do not know, She cannot be the only one who failed.
Source:
Blame Canada!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA&ab_channel=Movieclips
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10 minutes ago, MattR said:
Yes, it's miserable but they got to go home. Nobody got caught in the hurricane.
All I found was that 23 people across all of S Korea died due to heat. The scouts did okay. Going to the hospital for dehydration or eating bad food is not fun and a lot of scouts are angry at someone, but that's not the same as trauma. Money can be replaced.
I'm not saying all was fun and good. Certainly there are 40000 upset people. I feel sorry for them but this won't get fixed until a lot more is understood. There are a lot of events that led to this mess. The S Korea scouting organization is only one part of it. Something tells me that a month ago a lot of other people knew there was a problem and nothing was done about it. Were there any sort of intermediate check points that had to be met? They said they'd put in trees. That idea could have been checked 6 months ago. The food and toilets could also have been checked. Was there ever a plan B? Was there ever any sort of check that this was a good site to have that many people in August? Apparently not. In other words, the proposal was nothing more than a sales brochure - promise whatever is needed to win the event. Who's fault is that? Certainly S Korea is partly to blame but they were just playing by the rules. What about WOSM? It might be that WOSM doesn't have the budget to oversee such a big project. That's fine. Just make it smaller, or smaller and more often, or just pick one or two sites on each continent and rotate through them, or whatever. But unless people dig into what went wrong this will happen again, and next time it might be something faster moving than a hurricane.
Follow the money...
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6 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
This is interesting. Supreme Court put the Purdue Pharma plan on hold ato hear arguments about allowing non debtor releases. One wonders if this could give a bit of fuel to the appeals against the BSA plan.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/10/politics/supreme-court-purdue-pharma-opioid-settlement/index.html
Additional background:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/4777
Wonder why this bill died in Congress??
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1 minute ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
This sounds a bit like a good old boys network where performance is irrelevant and you don't want to be too talented or you might make someone feel bad so that they target you.
Lack of financial transparency, clearly a problem if embezzlement charges were brought, sounds like a general and ongoing problem for the BSA. Demoting someone who brought embezzlement to light is very problematic, especially for an organization that's supposed to have honesty as a value. If heads didn't roll in that council, then that's an indication of the general culture.
Welcome to Boy Scouts of America!
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Just now, Eagle94-A1 said:
Sadly @DuctTape is correct d some SEs are indeed despots. BSA pros have been going on for some time. I remember an SE telling his subordinates how to do it on the district level.
My observations over the years:
Turnover of DE's is extremely high. In general, those that take the role out of a passion for Scouting, helping youth, and program in the outdoors are rapidly disabused of those notions under the whip of money and membership, often being asked to depart from the values of the Scout Oath and Scout Law.
So, many, many leave after a short time. Those that remain (there are exceptions!!!) are often not the type of person we would want in that role... And the long production line of poor leadership and deficiencies in executive development begins.
The product is people who hang on in horrible, unethical work environments long enough to get vested in a pension program, and potentially get on the "SE Gravy Train" of an inflated executive salary, if they can work the system and get hired into that position in a council somewhere. And their primary goal is preservation of that system, which has rewarded them for their perseverance.
Again, I have met some wonderful counter-examples. But, on the collected whole, I think my assessment, although negative, is accurate.
And I love to hear about those successful counter-examples, so fire away! (They are what give me "a fool's hope") https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0S_MebzyzQ&ab_channel=Ejdamm
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10 minutes ago, DuctTape said:
The "pay to play" board models have become the norm. For many, the boards have abdicated their oversight responsibility and given over complete control to their CEO/Executive to the point where that employee dictates board policy and even who serves on the board. The boards are now that person's subordinate. Certain organizations which consult for boards have been infiltrated and now recommend even more drastic changes to by-laws which have the effect of making the situation even worse. When the executive is able to insulate themself from any accountability they have become a despot.
@DuctTape for National Commissioner!!!
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29 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
I actually heard of a council board firing the SE. Sadly he got hired in a larger council as a DFS.
I know an SE that got fired from his council, came here as Field Director, and is now back as an SE in another council.
It does happen, sadly... they survive and keep feeding at the trough.
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2 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:
Too Long, Didn't Read.
I guess it is all relative. At 44 pages in that format, the WSJ Guidelines are half the length of my son's Eagle Project Workbook.
Here is the same text, without pictures and copious white-space - 15 pages.
https://members.scout.org/sites/default/files/media-files/WOSM_WSJGuidelines_EN 2016.pdf
I meant it was probably TLDR for the Jamboree Planning Staff 😜
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9 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:"This document provides the key requirements for the Host Organisation to effectively plan and carry out the World Scout Jamboree.Relying on the constitution of the World Organization of the Scout Movement (WOSM), resolutions and policies adopted by the World Scout Conference, decisions made by the World Scout Committee, as well as invaluable insights and experiences gained from past World Scout Jamborees, these guidelines serve as a roadmap for a seamless Jamboree experience.
As the Host Organisation, it is our responsibility to adhere to WOSM’s guidelines for organizing the World Scout Jamboree, while also considering the wealth of knowledge shared by previous Host Organisations and the World Scout Bureau."
So for reference, the rather vague and lightweight 44 page ...
WOSM Guidelines for Hosting the World Scout Jamboree
(adopted by the World Scout Committee in March, 2016)
Facilities p26-27
TLDR??
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It is a corporation. By law, all corporations must have a Board of Directors. (even non-profit corporations)
Whether they fulfill their responsibilities or not is another matter.
15 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:Just wondering what it is supposed to do.
Why not just have professionals who run the not-for-profit?
Our board only meets quarterly. Hardly any committees and those (maybe one) are/is barely active.
Ever think that this is the way your SE and BSA National like it???
Things that make you go ...hmmmmm
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3 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:
Why does the BSA, like so many not-for-profits, have a volunteer board?
Because they cannot afford to pay them 😜
In fact, most councils I know use their Boards as a source of revenue. That is, if you want to participate in the governance of the council serving our local community, you must pay for the privilege... annually.
Going rate for a seat on our Board locally is $5K per year, my sources say...
Somehow, being on the Board here, whether they do anything or not, is a source of some sort of social credit in the circles they travel in...
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38 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
I believe they are making it up as they go along. I had a bunch of questions regarding the new registration process, and the pros could not answer them except to say "Keep doing what you do now."
To quote C3-P0,
I find your lack of faith... disturbing. 😛
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1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
What else is new.
When I worked for national, I had someone over me who had no experience with the program or summer camp experience. I created a SOP manual that included diagrams, schedules, etc for a trading post. They had no idea what happens at camp, and wanted us to work ridiculous hours that would not have benefitted campers, Scouters, or staff. We ended up compromising by opening up the hours I knew would work, and staying open during during the hours they wanted. Long story short, sales data showing the most productive hours had to be used to show the times I suggested worked. Further they thought they knew better about how to organize the shop., but didn't communicate this. Long story short, they got mad when we rearranged the shop according to the diagram in the SOP manual they approved. They stopped by to visit what they thought would be a slow time. It was actually the busiest, and the design of the store was shown to be better than what they set up.
The Peter Principle hard at work 😜
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And the weather is entirely predictable.
It is near the height of cyclone season in the Northern Hemisphere.
Look at recent history:
https://www.worlddata.info/asia/south-korea/typhoons.php
Would you plan a World Jamboree in Florida at this time of year?
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1 hour ago, gpurlee said:
While very appreciative of the military accommodations, they were crowded and uncomfortable. Participants were confined to base and there was essentially no outside communication available. Scouts remarked that the neckerchiefs should feature prison stripes.
If it is good enough for our military...???
This falls on very deaf ears.
The Department of Defense does not exist to provide creature comforts for tourists. Snarky comments about prison stripes belie any "very appreciative" sentiments.
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8 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
Covering for pedophiles is therefore also really bad. If you do it, expect people to be very angry when you get caught covering their crimes up, especially the victims.
I think you have this part wrong. BSA did not cover for anyone. It's that they had accusations, and not enough info to make allegations. False allegations are a crime... defamation, libel, slander, etc.
As I understand it, where they had enough info, or victims or families who wanted it brought to the authorities, they reported.
What BSA did was to hide the fact that they had a problem within the organization with child predators using it as an environment for depredation. They chose to protect the image of the organization and accepted the risks involved without making substantive changes to protect children, rather than bring the problem to light.
Those are still horrible actions, and certainly "bad karma," but they aren't the same thing as covering up a crime.
Agree 100% with the rest of your post.
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14 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
Scouting is civic, not political.
There are many who cannot distinguish between the two. Ideology often runs deep into our Scouting experiences here in the US.
This (for example) was the source of much of the pushback against the genesis of the Citizenship in Society Merit Badge. And that pushback caused BSA to rewrite (thankfully) many of the originally released requirements.
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2 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
Maybe this is because I'm not US American, but this seems completely out of left field to me. Nothing I've seen or heard anywhere connects to this. Would you be willing to explain more about why you believe this?
For example, what makes you say that scouting is a pillar of traditional American society? I don't think anyone in Sweden, including scouts and scouters, sees scouting as a pillar of Swedish society, so it's not clear to me why it would be here. Would you be willing to explain?
Who are these activists, exactly?
I have never heard of anyone anywhere consider pedophilia anything but morally repugnant.
The are many groups within the US that are (were?) considered "pillars" or a "bedrock" of America, and represent "all that is good about America" Here are a few:
Boy Scouts of America
Girl Scouts of USA
US Olympic Committee
American Red Cross
American Legion
Little League Baseball
National Academy of Sciences
Daughters of the American Revolution
This list is not "official", and will vary depending on whom you talk with. One good listing contains those organizations with a Congressional Charter, although some are questionable, and Congress is no longer doing this:
Norman Rockwell, with his paintings, many of which were published in widespread media, helped to seal Scouts into the American experience...
https://www.nrm.org/2018/04/norman-rockwell-boy-scouts-america/
The activists he is referring to are various groups who wish to change (or destroy, as an alternative) social institutions in order to reshape the social landscape, through a strategy called "The Long March Through the Institutions."
Here are a few viewpoints on this:
https://renew.org/the-long-march-through-the-institutions-of-society/
https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/the-long-march-through-the-corporations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEt9XepeGt4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_march_through_the_institutions
Some folks think this is tin foil hat stuff, some think it is a concerted effort (conspiracy?). I am somewhere in the middle of those two.
As to pedophilia being rebranded... yes, there is a move afoot...
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6 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:
Tough call to make and given how much money was spent, I hope BSA finds a way to compensate.
Maybe another fee increase for all of us? 😜
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1 hour ago, 5thGenTexan said:
I want to ask here. Is demanding Scouts do one thing OR do push-ups considered corporal punishment in 2023 in the barriers to abuse? Yelling loudly, not to be heard but angry... pick up trash or do push ups.
I haven't slept all night worrying I'm putting Scouts in danger if I quit and dont stand up for thier safety.
OK, so what happens if the Scouts do neither?? What are the consequences??
"Pick up trash or do push-ups" is just plain silly, and shows a lack of understanding in dealing with youth. In the Scouts' minds, you cannot really make them do either, so to make this ultimatum makes the leader look foolish.
I do not see this as a safety issue... nor corporal punishment...
It is hazing, however. Which is also prohibited.
If, indeed, this demand was made by a leader, and the push ups were imposed somehow, then you'd be obligated to report it. If you intend to do so, recommend you find a second person to corroborate your story.
"Physical violence, sexual activity, emotional abuse, spiritual abuse, unauthorized weapons, hazing, discrimination, harassment, initiation rites, bullying, cyberbullying, theft, verbal insults, drugs, alcohol, and pornography have no place in the Scouting program and may result in revocation of membership."
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18 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:
That's because 50°C is too hot for human habitation and so no planes will need to fly in that kind of heat. ☠️😳
The enemy voted, and you lost that argument.
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On deployment to the sandbox, one day we recorded 50 C (122 F), and that was the ambient air temperature... And we were on the tarmack loading and launching aircraft... the soles of our boots got squishy... You could only work for about 20 minutes, and then had to go cool off and hydrate for 30-40. Black flag days are wonderful 😜
Some of our planes were grounded because their performance charts were not graphed, nor their flight computers programmed to go that high. (Engineers... sheesh...)
I still use the heat index info to limit Scouting activities... check it out...
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I'd like to think our discussions here had something to do with this.
Anyone have a connection to a decision-maker to be able to tell whether this is true or not??
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We have a committee ldr who is abusive beyond tolerable limits.
in Issues & Politics
Posted · Edited by InquisitiveScouter
Kleenex? No...
You got a negative reply from me for your post:
"Well, this conversation appears to be unnecessary as the questionable replies appear to no longer exist which is kind of telling in and of itself. Good day to all."
You got people who did not see eye-to-eye with you on an issue that we have only one side of the story on... I certainly did not understand what your message meant... "questionable replies appear to no longer exist..." But then you become condescending and dismissive with "...which is kind of telling in and of itself. Good day to all."
That is why I gave you a negative. Please put a more positive expression in your tone. You catch more flies with honey...