yknot

I think this is where I wonder if it really is over for scouts. I'm aware, given BSA's use of the term "youth" rather than "scout", that there is an expectation that scouters follow YPT whenever and wherever they are involved with youth, scouts or not. However, imagine telling a non scout parent that you cannot take a group of kids to a movie or let your son have them over to your house unless another adult is present because you are involved in scouting. The inference is that you are not to be trusted because you are involved in scouting. I have taken BSA YPT, and similar training thro

Yes, wash your hands long and often. However, scouters are among the most hand shaking people I know, so cease and desist for the time being. Little is known about this virus. Most recommendations are being extrapolated from data collected in connection with the SARS and MERS corona virus outbreaks. However, this new virus is demonstrating some unique behaviors so prudent caution is advised.

Just at a COH this weekend where everyone, very scout like, shook hands. Please tell your scouts to stop this for now.

I'm in a high cost area so that sounds dirt cheap.

Skeptic, I heartily agree. Just had someone contact me to day to buy bluebird boxes from scouts because they assumed we sold them as a fundraiser. We don't. Why aren't we doing that, and becoming known for that, instead of ... rip off popcorn that has nothing to do with any scout value, oath, or law?

Eagledad, I think you are largely right. However, things change and if scouts manages to survive the bankruptcy, I will always believe that some scouting, even if it is a morphed program to fit new times, is better than no scouting. There are kids out here that love this stuff and I hope there is always a place where they can find it.

It's the Outdoors mission for me. Outdoors is neutral territory no matter what your politics. There is a huge groundswell of interest among young kids today in the environment, but a lot of them don't know the first thing about it or have access to it. Why are we not capitalizing on this? Our program -- the ranks and the merit badges -- need an overhaul to get rid of the school and homework type drivel and to emphasize more outdoors related activities. There is so much that scouting does not get into or go very deep with, from wildlife biology to weather to water resources. People mock STEM s

I just want to clarify that I follow YPT religiously when I am in a scouting environment. What I am talking about is when my son is outside of the scouting environment and wants me to take him and a couple friends to a movie. Or if a couple friends want to come over and have a nerf war.

If you read his "bio", the character was a cub scout and his den mother taught him to "be prepared".

I follow YPT as closely as I can but I realize some of it is to cover BSA's neck. Sometimes you have to use commonsense or your child wouldn't be able to have a social life.

I would agree. I think they've got their own problems that they are trying to address by distancing themselves from BSA.

I don't think we should engage in any fights over which organization is more "safe" for youth. Leader and adult use and abuse of alcohol have been issues at plenty of BSA activities too. While it's all inappropriate, there are those who could argue relative safety. I don't want to go there, and I think it's beneath us anyway. I can't account for what Girl Scouts says. Good PR for us will be local. BSA has pretty much boxed itself into a corner. Putting a light on what our kids are out there doing every week is something we actually can do at the grass roots level. It's helpful to remembe

Eagle 1993, I completely agree with the idea to sell artwork before camps. Artwork sold to a collector or museum isn't lost; it will be cared for and cherished and there is nothing to prevent a future exhibition of loaned paintings being brought back together. Camp properties sold, on the other hand, will likely be developed and forever lost.

I have no inside information and am not an insider, but based on what I heard through our council it made sense for our council to join the petition and that a significant number of councils have also done so. Would be interested to know what others have heard.

I agree. This exercise is interesting but it is more academic than practical. Reality, post filing, is probably going to be something we can't much envision or have much influence over. Council mergers are not going to be happening while the bankruptcy case is proceeding in all likelihood. I think it's good to try to frame out possible desired scenarios, but the reality is we are facing a new world order and we'll probably have to adapt as we go.

My understanding is that Councils can sign on to be part of the National bankruptcy filing and thus obtain some degree of protection however then any unencumbered assets could be at risk. My understanding is that many did so.

The proposal needs more work but the basic idea is good. Just to advocate for this poor scout who is unknowingly getting his proposal vetted by some scouters who are probably pretty intimidating in their collective expertise, he does state that all wood is already on site so he has at least thought about that aspect even if he didn't articulate why that's a concern. He also states that he is using 3 foot long logs not 12 foot. He absolutely should outline his work plan but I dug plenty of post holes as a kid so I"m not sure that aspect is far fetched. I've also helped build structures like thi

This is a great idea and with a little more context, such as including an educational component, it could be a great project. Insect biomass is plummeting. There is a valid conservation message in a project like this and if some education were provided about what it is, why it's needed, and how it could be replicated on a smaller scale elsewhere, it could be a really cool feature of a local park.

There is a certain amount of "local" logic in having regional high adventure or destination bases in the southwest, upper midwest, south, and now mid Atlantic, so I don't hate the idea of Summit either, but I think it's implementation has not been well managed. The loss of council camp properties has been an ongoing crisis BSA has ignored. It speaks to the lack of outside expertise because support easily could have been offered through property management expertise and advice, bench marked program adjustments, or collective purchasing agreements. Facility upgrades are a common challenge a

Being in an area where there are multiple councils and camps, the most successful ones are the most innovative and the most flexible and that least resemble the traditional week long scout residence camp. Allowing provisional scouts as well as non scout siblings and friends to attend; having weeks or specialty tracks that focus on STEM , Shooting, etc.; a day camp option for older scouts who are in summer travel sports and need to be home for weeknight games; two and three day camping options; family camping nights; programming that extends throughout the year; discounts for multi week attenda

The bigger issue is that if it is a Council that is involved in a possible case, the bankruptcy judge may have some ability to go back and review such efforts to hide or preserve assets. Similar to what happens during a medicaid review with an elderly relative who might have tried to gift assets to family members too close to claiming eligibility.

I worked on tort reform as a national public policy issue some years ago. Nothing happened then, nothing has improved since. It's only gotten worse. In parts of Europe and Canada, the legal liability system works differently and organizations like scouting don't have the same kinds of issues and challenges that we have here. We would have to change our system and also our cultural outlook. Americans like to sue. It's why I have always carried a very large personal umbrella policy. I don't like a lot of the changes National has made over the years, but I can understand why some of them happened

In trying to visualize a more decentralized future for scouting, one of the things that keeps stopping me is liability insurance. Even if we are no longer BSA, if we are anything scout like, I wonder how we are going to be able to obtain affordable insurance. The liability insurance crisis isn't limited to scouts. In every sector I work or volunteer in, everyone is trying to avoid or reassign risk. You can't stand in front of a supermarket, use school or town facilities, or do just about anything else without a COI. Any insurance experts out there with thoughts?

I kind of like that more informal approach. Our CO always has a service, but it's the exact time as our own church's service. We usually opt to go to our own, which is very low key and basically wear your uniform, stand up and say something short, and be friendly. I also have to say, I am not a fan of the BSA's enthusiasm for turning everything into a ceremonial event. A flag ceremony with meaning? Great. An Eagle COH? Great. AOL Crossover? Great. The rest of it on a near weekly or monthly basis just feels like a poor use of time and diminishes the gravity and impact.

The patrol method works in troops where the behind the scenes adult leadership is good. If it is, the scouts learn how to lead and manage their affairs through osmosis and observation of good leaders without a lot of direct influence. If that background doesn't exist, however, the patrol method doesn't work as well. If leaders aren't organized, planning ahead, or resolving interpersonal issues well among themselves, then the scouts will have a harder time figuring those things out because they have no one to learn from. The patrol method isn't an absence of adult leadership or mentoring but t