yknot

In the midst of all this sadness over bankruptcy, youth abuse, and now the Ukraine, I have had a joy filled moment almost every day this week sighting a Bald Eagle in different locations all around my state of domicile. It is such a kick to see them back in such numbers to the point that what was once a rare bird is now a near daily occurence.... And it's not the same bird -- It's adults hunting to feed mates and newly hatched chicks from four active nests and now a fifth nest I've just discovered. Or juveniles from last year's nests, which can be so easy to dismiss as another turkey vulture in a kettle until you note that straight-as-a-board wing span, apparently hanging around near mom and dad or maybe flying through to parts unknown. I know the apparently extinct Ivory Billed Woodpecker was called the Lord God Bird because it was so big and so stunning, but for me, that's what I think every time I see an Eagle. No matter what happens with scouting, I hope we're always able to get kids excited and full of wonder about seeing creatures like this in the wild.

Hopefully one of the partners involved -- trust, municipality, Senator's office -- will conduct an independent environmental assessment of the site as part of the appraisal process. In fact, an extension could be negotiated to allow more time for that to take place. It would be of benefit to any potential purchaser because previously unknown environmental site constraints can be uncovered or better delineated ahead of time instead of after the fact as frequently happens. Such information can have a downward effect on any projected appraisal prices. Generally such properties are bought without a lot of specific information that is only uncovered as the development process unfolds. Once you start trying to develop a site plan, a developer suddenly discovers portions of the tract that cannot be developed due to wetlands, slopes, endangered species habitat, additional permits that are required that may be difficult to attain. It sounds like they have investigated some of it but there is likely more.

Not unique? No other youth or young adult organization at the time was selling itself to the American public as a bastion of moral standards and therefore safety. Not 4-H. Not YMCA. Not Little League. Boy scouts marketed its oath and law to boys and parents to convince them they were joining an organization where people adhered to higher ideals and implied their kids would be safe. I don't fault Scouts for having a problem with youth abuse and not being sure what to do about it in individual cases. I do fault them for continuing to cloak themselves in a dishonest false morality and continuing with business as usual when these cases began to pile up. The leaders knew there was a problem then, later, and now. The "red files" as they were first called in the 1920s or so, and then later the IV files, and now the more popularly labeled "perversion" files, are the irrefutable proof.

The big question is if you were Scouts, even in those early days, how could you countenance this. Scouting made a unique promise to youth, parents, and the American public via the Scout oath and law. BSA and no one else created the illusion that scouting was an environment where such things as truth, compassion and honor reigned. We know, with the creation of the then "red files", that BSA knew this was a unique problem within its organization. Whatever the social excuses might have been at any time during this sad history, there were no scouting excuses that applied to it.

It's more likely aimed at anti Catholicism, which was rampant and in the headlines at the time. The Klan was being criticized for its anti Catholic positions. Note he mentions Catholic boy scouts first.

It's not weird. It is sadly a cynical opinion based on experience. For lack of a better word, relationships between paid staff and volunteer or even elected volunteer boards can be incestuous. That's pretty real world.

The Council's interest will be in having the largest financial war chest possible in order to continue paying salaries for as long as possible in the face of dwindling membership and fundraising.

I don't see it that way. People who haven't been through hell cannot relate. Why don't we all just stop poking back at people who have come here for help. Many have had experiences most of us cannot relate to at all unless we've been in combat or lost a child. These are devastating life experiences. Is it really that critical to try and make a point on this piddling forum to someone who may be holding on by a thread? Where is the scout honor in that? No one else in scouting has listened to them. For whatever reason, the universe handed the forum this role and if two people find some healing in it, isn't that more important than trying to defend our dysfunctional BSA? Just let it be man.

I have also yet to definitively see a Goshawk other than someone yelling out at a hawkwatch that one was at o clock. On my bucket list. We worked with Harris's as well in Hershey PA where their plumage was particularly apt. They are relatively "docile." I have had two great lifetime views of owls, both GHO, while horseback. Ridden within feet of them while they perched over a trail. Being horseback is great for wildlife and birding as many creatures don't view you as a threat. Although none of my racetrack rejects would tolerate standing around much to look at things. I think we need a birding thread on this forum for stress relief and general edification.

Cooper's can be quite exciting to watch. Ospreys as well. I get to watch a lot of them hunt in the summer at the beach. We used to have a couple on the reservoirs but now that Eagles have moved in they are visitors only. I just watched a video of what I believe was a Great Horned Owl defend it's nest. It strafed a 90 lb dog.

Same. The sight of any raptor is thrilling, but especially eagles. We functionally had none and now I have four nesting sites within minutes of my house, one of which has yet to make it onto the state map so it's like a secret for now. Plus several places where they reliably hunt or roost. One of my side jobs was to edit an animal health related website and news feed. During one editorial meeting, one of the staffers, with all the excitement attached to uncovering a big scoop, pitched a story idea about this thing called "DDT" and how it had killed off a lot of birds back in the '60s. The younger writers were all gobsmacked, had never heard of it, and thought it was a great story idea... Makes you feel kind of old lol.

It is not negative to be accurate and honest. The NESA Yearbook is marketed by a company that publishes many other such vanity publishing projects in a number of fields. That's their business and that's the racket. Some people still think it's nice to buy one, and that's fine, but it would be dishonest not to be clear on what it is.

We have done falconry and some of the instructors have eagles, which they do not allow students to handle. One falconer had a Golden Eagle who he said was capable of eviscerating him in close quarters if he didn't keep her well fed and happy. The PSI in their talons is off the charts.

I think the general consensus is that if not a scam it's basically the same as the Who's Who type vanity publishing racket. Not to say there aren't some benefits to being listed but as we all know these days being listed anywhere means you'll get endless pitches, direct mail, promotions, etc.

I had chickens once. Somehow in my head I had this painting-like image of a rambling farmstead with county fair worthy chickens free ranging around the place. I've had a lot of livestock but never chickens. Finally got them and after a few months of careful husbandry set my prize flock free in the front yard for some hours of eye candy viewing. Knowing that we have predators galore I kept a close watch while doing chores. But the phone rang. I went inside and I swear I was not gone more than 5 minutes. I came out to piles of feathers exploded all over the yard and not one bird left. Same thing happened to my neighbor. The electric fence kept the bear, fox, opossum and coyotes out but not the Cooper's hawks which we have in abundance.

The things I thought I'd be doing at this point before random parts started breaking or old injuries made me realize what I thought was healed was just physiological MacGyvering... still trying to get back there, or at least somewhere.

Give up on scouting then maybe, not getting kids off their phones or outside. Kid participation in a lot of outdoor activities is way up -- fishing, birding, horseback riding, organized biking. The scouting program in some ways and in some places has become an impediment to getting kids outdoors. And phones and devices are not all bad. There are apps and features that can be fun to use outdoors. Edit: For example, I'm doing Cornell's Great Backyard Bird Count this weekend with my teenage son. He's using Merlin on his phone; I'm reporting via ebird. This is the kind of outdoors thing he likes to do.

This is a great recap of so many obvious problems in scouting today. I think you've hit so many nails right on the head here. Many aspects of the program are disconnected from the day to day realities and perspectives of an increasing number of families and kids, but there is a lot of resistance to acknowledging that. Anyone who tries to point out problems like these is simply told "You're doing it wrong" but I don't think these are issues or problems that are going to be fixed by adhering to existing program. I think program, as well as the whole scout mindset, needs to change. At least if scouting is going to continue in any signficant form or fashion. I'm not sure bankruptcy is the biggest threat to scouting. I think it's more the resistance to reimagining scouting into something that is more accessible, understandable, interesting, and doable for a greater number of current day families and kids. I laughed when I got to the part of your comments about giving roles to parents with no experience with kids or scouting. No parent today would dream of sending their little 6 or 7 year old off onto a field with a coach who has no idea what they are doing, either with kids or a sport, and yet that is exactly what scouting does. And it continues up the chain.

Those are all defenses of the status quo. Status quo isn't working on multiple levels. It enabled a tragic level of child abuse. It has fostered a steep decline in membership. You can keep saying what you are saying, but it's not a path forward, it's a path toward continued decline.

I think CynicalScouter was the one who used to dig out the real membership reports for us. Sure do miss him. My understanding is that the numbers aren't solid until after the recharter grace period is over, which I think is March/three months? Whatever numbers we are looking at now are likely subject to change downward and then possibly again depending on what happens with the UMC extensions in June. I think one of the big issues with membership going forward is going to be COs. As this process continues, some of the smaller CO groups that have been out of the loop have seemed to catch up and are developing cold feet. A number of units who were dropped by their church based COs shifted over to Elks for example. Elks were initially very welcoming but there were rumors of a change of heart and now actual letters have been posted advising Elk Lodges not to charter scout units next year. If BSA survives bankruptcy it is going to have to fix the CO model both to address membership as well as be able to ensure any kind of real oversight of the program going forward. The current structure doesn't work. In my local neck of the woods I have not seen data on any of the nearby councils but can report similar results. Troop level units had slight losses but are hanging on. Packs have imploded -- closed or lost significant membership. Our home Troop has no cubs crossing over for the first time in memory. One of the issues at the cub level is adult volunteers. Parents during the pandemic have been pulled in nine directions trying to cope with school closures, quarantines, child care, etc. They seem to have no bandwidth for anything as involved as scouting. I'm involved in a number of youth and community organizations and have observed that while scout numbers have dropped, nature center youth programs, horseback riding programs, golf and tennis programs, ad hoc rec sports programs, have record participation and in some cases months long waiting lists.

Declining membership over the years, which predates the LDS departure and Covid, is a pretty precise argument that the BSA program has not been syncing well with what kids and families want nationwide. What you or I see locally or even regionally varies greatly across the country. There is no BSA oversight to ensure consistency in program delivery. That's part of the problem. And while there is a grain of truth in your deflection that many problematic issues are not in the handbook, BSA's standard operating procedure has been to overlook or enable local interpretations of the handbook. BSA purposefully leaves many areas open to council or unit policy.

I feel like I've been writing the same things over and over again for years. Scouting has become way too complicated and too much like homework. It is very adult driven despite what people say about their units being scout led. If our report card is membership then the program has been failing to grab the interest of an awful lot of kids. Adults drive so many of the impediments. Take a recent discussion on mountain biking on another thread. Apparently mountain biking requires special bikes, special trails, specific terrain. I know a lot of kids who think they do mountain biking because they've got a bike and a mountain. To a city kid, biking through a local park is mountain biking. We make things so difficult some times and so not fun and often with the absolute best of intentions but with sad results.

A lot of kids don't have any interest in getting to First Class and yet a lot of troops push hard for kids to get it done in the first year.

I think BSA needs to do what other youth organizations have done and let kids follow a track that matches their interests. Love camping? Work towards the Outdoors Eagle. Love science? Work towards the STEM Eagle. There aren't enough troops around to find one that matches interests -- the kids ought to be able to control their own destiny a little more within a troop I think. For all our talk about scout run, there are an awful lot of troops that instead reflect adult opinions on what a 'true' scout is or does. You could come up with a common core but then let them branch out in tracks. Or at least that's one idea. Scouting needs to really take a good hard look at what kids want to do because while these declining turnouts are sad they are also sort of a report card on the traditional scout program and BSA should be paying attention. Better marketing isn't going to get kids to like cold weather camping more. .

We can't get kids (or parents) to devote any time to anything that isn't directly related to Eagle. The only way would be to make this the Eagle Scout advancement path instead. Which I would wholeheartedly support.