yknot

The responsibility belongs with BSA. It will have to figure out a way to provide supervision. Perhaps if it restructures to operate in a more business like, effective way instead of the dysfunctional scout way it has adopted, it will streamline some of its convoluted and archaic structures and processes in a way that will make it more economical and functional to run.

I know they wanted something in place before June 30 but it's been an unusual process in that they set the unveiling meeting and said the agreement would be sent out prior to the meeting but didn't do so. Then they said it would be available at the meeting, then in the week following the meeting, and now they say it's still being worked on and are promising it for yet another week from now. It seems odd that there is still so much to work out after an unveiling meeting. It also seems odd that a facilities use agreement, which ought to be much more straightforward, is also still being worked out. I wonder if the fact that the judge's ruling, which I think both BSA and UMC thought would have been issued by now, is playing a role in that or if there really are that many issues still under discussion.

I'm not understanding what you're trying to show. This article is talking about accidents and deaths, not abuse. There are also relatively few boy scout camps compared to other private or commercial camps so I don't think you can draw any useful comparisons. the state of California alone has almost twice as many camps on its own than boy scouts has in the entire United States.

This is the common sense approach. They are the new Swiss army knife, and while parents want their kids to unplug they also want them to have them for emergencies. In the current Youth Protection environment, particularly in scouts, cell phones are basically part of the safety net. Most schools have policies like this, the kids are used to those kinds of policies, and they (mostly) work.

Speaking of Elks, late last year/earlier this year they were told not to recharter scout units although some still did. Supposedly there was going to be an update in a month or few. I have not seen anything but has anyone else? As far as assets and churches, many are failing so it's not clear how core some assets would be considered.

It was originally supposed to be sent prior to the webinar I thought but at the webinar I think they said a copy would be sent out in the next couple of weeks along with a video of the meeting and some FAQs. Also based on what was said at the meeting they expect the process to roll out at different times for different councils over the summer, to conclude by October. My assumption is that they had to do something now to appease the UMC before the June deadline but probably are far from having all the details worked out as far as how all Councils will handle it. Some are not staffed to take over the CO role I gather.

Yes, I and others generally recommend anyone working as a volunteer with youth carry a $1 million umbrella liability policy. There are many other settings where that That is not something that would be recommended as part of a CO model it's more of a personal decision. This discussion is more about the general liability market for scouting. Is that what you meant?

I agree. I've mentioned that here before and often been scoffed at. Pretty much every kind of insurance I've worked with has been tightening for decades but it's gotten particularly bad in the last 10 years or so. There has been a particular change in the youth market though and we are starting to feel it. Apart from the UMC, in the past year we've had several private or commercial youth properties who used to allow scout access say scouts can no longer use their properties due to insurance. Scouts specifically, not other youth organizations. I think scouts may be in danger of becoming the equivalent of a dangerous dog breed in the youth insurance market.

I watched the webinar too and to me it seemed clear that the UMC had understandable liability concerns about "owning" units for the BSA. They are certainly willing to continue a role as affiliates, which is something less than a CO relationship but more than a facilities use agreement. The UMC, like many community based organizations, is facing some of the same challenges as BSA -- membership in a steady decline and consistently falling revenues. I've seen some big Methodist churches that have healthy congregations and balance sheets, but most of the ones in my region are failing and hanging on by a thread. They are taking sensible steps that allow their congregations to continue to support scouting in some way but minimizes their exposure. One of the most interesting aspects of the discussion last night was a very brief mention by the insurance expert about the "hard" insurance market for organizations that are involved in or support youth activities. He pointed out that high risk activities with high loss exposure, like scouting, are facing rate increases and coverage reductions. That obviously, and logically, factored into the UMC perspective.

Not sure if this belongs here but I think this will solve many of the "What to do with one or a few girls" issues: https://hovc.org/articles/2022/06/family-den-pilot-program/

You are very funny, as always.

I thought the point about Jaquiss was bizarre. Plenty of journalists, whistleblowers, producers cross back and forth over that divide. The viral documentary My Octopus Teacher did essentially the same. It was just a less controversial subject. The point about lawyers having an economic stake in airing the abuse is also bizarre because... the Boy Scout representatives interviewed don't also have an economic stake in downplaying the abuse?

It's been reviewed on a number of major media sites but more significantly is getting attention on social media, including Twitter which reaches wider and different audiences. A lot of younger parents and youngsters get a lot of their information from these other types of channels.

If you don't have Hulu you can sign up for a free trial (be sure to end it) or pay a month's fee. You can also pay to watch it on the Tribeca Film Festival site I believe for the next couple days. It's $15. That's where I saw it. It's playing in some theaters but those are mostly in major cities.

They do love food but a lot of places will not allow you to have food. We can't have food items in any of our meeting locations -- we use a couple churches and a couple schools -- except a park campfire ring. Also, trying to do snacks in units with a lot of food issues is getting difficult.

I think this is part of the scouting mindset problem that could use an update. Kids today do not need to spend hours in meetings to organize anything. They can do almost everything via text, email or online. This is how they pretty much organize school projects and most everything else in their lives now. They can collect money via Venmo or whatever. Meetings have become too much talking and ceremony and it's still not enjoyable even if it's outside around a campfire.

No. Every time new folks join the forum there is a lot of ground to cover and it's easier to just ask folks to go back and review the discussions. There is a recap section in Issues and Politics that has a good starting list of everything that can be reviewed. It says Read This First.

I just watched it. I think it's very effective from the standpoint of presenting the case to the public that BSA has covered up the child abuse scandal and that its corporate culture really hasn't changed. At one point towards the end of the documentary the National Director says the bankruptcy is about compensation for victims, and not about the BSA doing anything much different going forward. In his mind, they've already addressed most of the issues although he later says they will always look to improve. But for those of us hoping there would be some kind of meaningful reorganization, that apparently is not the corporate BSA view or goal. The documentary takes a very quiet, measured, reflective approach to the topic, and it looks at systemic dysfunction within BSA as a whole, not just the abuse scandal. It doesn't come across at all sensationalized to me. The whole film has a very weary, sad feel to it that's very evocative. I have no idea how much attention it will get on Hulu but I think it's going to raise a lot of questions for the average person who views it.

If it were 20 years ago, I would agree but he's kind of too old school now. He has also made some statements over the past few years that are pretty out of sync with what scouting's bankruptcy realities are. I think it needs to be some younger people with an idea of what challenges current families face, preferably from some different demographics like minorities and women, and maybe even from outside scouting. I could be wrong about Bear Grylls, but I don't think he was ever even a scout when he was a kid for example. Social media is the most likely place to look for useful personalities today, not TV. I would start with reviewing some of the people who have youtube channels or frequently post on facebook pages. I'd also look for some scouts who have made it in sports or other fields.

Of note is that Ron Howard also was an executive producer of the recent Hulu series Under the Banner of Heaven about the Mormon church. I recently watched it and was struck by some of the parallels with how the showrunners constructed the insular nature of the Mormon church in dealing with the depicted abuse against women and gender attitudes, and how BSA dealt with the child abuse scandal, likely during the same time frame. I don't know if anyone else watched it but there was a disturbing scene where two abused women are at a gas station screaming for help and they are ignored by all the men present, including a boy scout troop.

I feel for the survivors who have had to relieve their worst memories but the price of "leaving it alone" would have meant a future legacy of yet more destroyed children. BSA only began to confront this when it was put face to face with the nightmares that happened on its watch.

Some of it seems good but some of it seems concerning. Federal lands are already overrun in a lot of places. Not sure allowing more unpermitted usage even by smaller groups is such a good idea. Also given what I've seen of "capital improvements" they are too often connected to concession operations.

I would have appreciated a way to get my aunt's shotgun away from her before she started pointing it at me from her bedroom door.

I think it's kind of pointless to fight with the school district if they don't want to provide access. It probably has more to do with parent complaints than anything else. Just look for other venues. We were blocked from public schools but had good luck at private schools and getting connected with the local home school community. We also have excellent relationships with local sports leagues and do some cross recruitment there. Which is why I think the anti sports mentality so frequently encountered in BSA is counterproductive.

Yes, worth their time, appealing and impactful. Today kids are asked to do civic service everywhere and for everything and the opportuniaties can be a lot more... rewarding? Unified is huge as are high school envirionmental and service clubs. Even the sports teams are doing service projects. The stuff they can do is a lot more interesting and meaningful depending on the unit. They aren't that enthused about spending four hours parking cars at a fair or manning a booth or burning flags yet a lot of units seems to persist in these traditional service projects.