Treflienne

I agree. Now, to implement this -- helping new and inexperienced scouters see the importance and benefit of requiring a full demononstration of skill mastery. Suppose you want to convince an ASM, new to BSA, about how rushing through shortchanges the scouts. About how cutting corners on demonstration of skill mastery shortchanges the scouts. Do you have, say, any recommended reading to suggest? (This is not a hypothetical question, I would like to bring someone around to this point of view and have not succeeded yet.)

The article is so confused that it is difficult to tell whether or not the scouts are confused. A few examples from a single quote why I think the reporter did not know what she was talking about: 1) Girl Scouts has no ranks 2) One does not "graduate" to the gold award. 3) Their troop disbanding is not a direct consequence of their completing the gold award. 4) "will be considered a girl scout for life and will be able to start their own troop". In my area, moms with absolutely no scouting background are pressed into becoming troop leaders, has nothing to do with

https://sippican.theweektoday.com/article/rochester-girl-scouts-try-boy-scout-ranks/40541 has a great picture of Girl Scouts, wearing Girl Scout uniforms, holding their newly acquired Scouts BSA handbooks for girls. If I understand it correctly (and the article is a little confusing) a whole troop of girl scouts has joined the boy scouts. They plan to finish up their GSUSA gold awards, and also work on Boy Scout ranks.

Hi Barry, Sorry, I don't mean to "rub sand in the wound". I am genuinely interested in learning what the BSA differences are. Every so often I feel like I am in never-never-land when something that I thought was common to all parts of the scout movment turns out not to be. I really appreciate that you are helping me learn the BSA way of doing things.

Absolutely, context matters. But since @Cburkhardt was talking about scouting, "the movement" seemed perfectly clear to me. Anyone else care to comment about how common and recognizable this "movement" terminology is currently in BSA? I have been learning that in some cases BSA is just different from what I am familiar with in that other branch of the scout movement, WAGGGS. I keep encountering things that surprise me, especially in areas that BSA is just different, even different from other WOSM scout organizations. (Scout sign with hand at shoulder height, or with upper arm horizon

Hi Barry, I don't know how common the "movement" terminology is in BSA currently, but it goes way back. The preface of the 1911 BSA handbook starts "The Boy Scout Movement has become almost universal . . ." and the first chapter of the 1920 Scouting for Girls starts "When Sir Robert Baden-Powell founded the Boy Scout movment in England . . ."

The scout movement, or perhaps more specifically the "World Organization of the Scout Movement".

When speaking to prospective female scouts and their families, I deliberately use the term "Boy Scouts of America", for example "a new Boy Scouts of America troop for girls" or "an all-girls Boy Scouts of America" troop. Why? Because the general public is familiar with the term "Boy Scouts" and does not know the term "Scouts BSA". I am careful though with terminology, and try to use "Boy Scouts of America" instead of "Boy Scouts" since the organization is still "Boy Scouts of America" even though the program name is now "Scouts BSA"

To be clear, I am not talking about favoritism, I am talking about specialization in roles. (And even with a non-linked troop, how many roles a committee member takes on may vary with the size of the committee.)

One new issue, caused by the presence of girls, is the linked troop structure. While I am very pleased to hear about @Cburkhardt's success with a non linked troop, for those of us with small girls' troops in not-quite-so-densely populated areas, and with scouters (parents of the girls) who don't have the years of experience working with BSA scout troops, the mentoring that is available from the linked boys' troops is invaluable. But that raises lots of new questions about best practises: Just how to structure the linkage? Do we do any activities jointly or all separately? Which on

Thanks for the explanations so far. They are helpful. Now for the second half of my question: do any of you also have an official BSA source to point to for the differences? That I could show to an adult who is not seeing eye-to-eye with other adults as to what exactly some of the requirements require?

What is the difference between "demonstrate" and "show" in the S-T-1-2 rank requirements? Is there one? And can anyone point me to any official BSA resources stating the difference (or the lack of difference) between the two?

Hi @Eagledad, I just don't understand what you mean. Can you restate in different words? By "the patrol environment is very important to growth" I mean that learning to work with others in a patrol environment is important to the growth of the individual scouts.

I think that the patrol environment is very important to growth (based on my experience eons ago with patrols in a girl scout / girl guide context). Why do you think that patrols will be neglected now that girls have joined BSA? But I could see a girls' patrol having a rather different style of operation than a boys' patrol, just as any two patrols could come to have their own style or culture.

I am really really liking the linked troop model. Maybe because we are linked to a really great boys troop. Separate (so far) meetings and all outings to date. Joint (so far) opening flag ceremonies. Upcoming planned joint activities: the annual Court-of-Honor and family potluck, the annual family camp-out (siblings invited), ILST. Merit badge groups will likely be open to scouts from both troops. The girls (and boys) have their own space. They can do things with their own style. (What do my newbie scouts plan and cook on their first campout? Gourmet meals -- but the co

I am feeling that the amount of intervention is a tricky judgment call in this case. On our recent campout, there was a point at which, if I had been out with a bunch of junior girl scouts (grade 4) I would have told them "look at the kaper chart". But I held off. Eventually I did call the patrol leader out of the happily sociallizing crowd of girls and whisper in her ear that she might think about having her scouts take a look at the duty roster. The girls had a great time. But they did end up concluding that they would like to be more efficient next time.

Hi Barry, You aren't talking about my scouts, are you? No trouble with lack of focus. They just prioritized getting out of doors over picking a patrol name. The PLC meeting has even scheduled in the date on which the patrol name will be picked.

This is why I am glad that the girls and boys are in separate troops. I hope we don't get there. I doubt that the girls were instant experts. In my troop (which definitely would not be winning any camporee contests yet) we had girls come in that already had some scouts skills. (One-match fire building? Yup, one girl could do that. Quite familiar with lashing? Yup, one girl could do that. Done a lot of backpacking? Yup, one girl had. Different girls for each skill.)

I agree. But, I have an ASM that I need to convince of this. Do you have any good recommended reading on the subject? I would like to see, for the scouts, high opportunity and low pressure when it come to rank advancement. That is, lots of opportunity to use (and to learn by using) scout skills. Low pressure as to how quickly to get them signed off. I definitely want to avoid the "once and done" mentality.

I imagine that typically a group of new scouts has been a bunch of fifth-graders, not a bunch of teenagers. Being half again as old (as the 16-year-old in that troop is) makes a difference. I have been impressed by the enthusiasm of the girls that have joined our troop. They did not just drift into this because someone signed them up for cubs (or for brownies) years ago and they've drifted along with their friends. They really want to be there. We have around a dozen girls drawing from four towns, three school districts --- it is a very self-selected group. And yes, I've got a

Culture shock time. One of my new scouts was asking about the scout handshake -- working on scout rank. So I raised my right hand in the scout sign and stuck out my left hand for a handshake --- and my ASM (also new to BSA) said "but that's not what's in the scout handbook". Having grown up in a different scouting organization, and having done its scout handshake hundreds of times, this took me by surprise. So I went looking back through the various old handbooks and facsimiles of handbooks and found: In Scouting for Boys by Baden-Powell, p42 I could find nothing

To say that three scouts (girls) with a 28 month age spread from oldest to youngest may share a four-person mini-cabin, but may not share a four-person tent also makes to logical sense.

Your descriptions describe some of the GSUSA problems also. Not just currently, but running a generation back also. Actually, an old friend from my high school girl scout troop, whose daughter did venturing, told me that, in contrast to the Boy Scout program, "Venturing . . . culture-wise, feels much more like scouting as we knew it in [Town Name]"

As @qwazse suggested, I'd definitely try to get in the full organization name "Boy Scouts of America" since the general public recognizes "Boy Scouts" but does not yet recognize "Scouts BSA", and since the program name changed from "Boy Scouts" to "Scouts BSA".

See this infographic: https://scoutingwire.org/this-infographic-shows-the-right-way-to-refer-to-girls-who-will-join-scouts-bsa/ A couple of the main points are never put the word "girl" directly in front of the word "scout" and make sure that people cannot confuse your girls BSA troop with a GSUSA troop. Also, for our town's recruiting night, we were careful about the wording so as not to imply that we are the only scouting organization in town. (Since GSUSA is still around.) As far as I know, there is no problem with continuing to put the word "boy" directly in front of the wo