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Everything posted by Treflienne

  1. Non-disclosure of what? the contents of the volunteer toolkit? In my service unit, there seems to be continuous attrition from about 3rd to 6th grades. Some troops hold together long enough for the girls to transition into the "older girl" troop (A local 6th-12th grade troop) but others troops just fold leaving their girls without a troop. It will be interesting to see how many of these girls will try Scouts BSA. I haven't been to any service unit meetings (as a parent) since Scouts BSA started in February, since I've been too busy with Scouts BSA, but prior to that I did not see hostility. I did see people in Girl Scout circles who thought cubs/scoutsBSA would not be interesting to girls - and this was from families that had children in both programs. I actually could imagine a family choosing Brownies followed by Scouts BSA. (If you ignore the journeys, stick close to Girl Scout traditions, and actually take the Brownies camping, the program works. And you can take them camping without their parents And, as "girl led" the girls get the fun of actually choosing what they are going to do.) I cannot imagine choosing to do cubs followed by Cadettes/Seniors/Ambassadors.
  2. The link was specific to the person taking the survey -- so yes the respondant can be identified. If I remember right, they said that your answers would not be shared with your daughter's troop leader. It will be interesting to see if my family gets any further surveys, or marketing targetted to the dual registered group. Another survey question, if I remember correctly, was whether the survey respondant's daughter was planning to re-register with GSUSA for the coming year. (It is currently early-bird reregistration season). Since the GSUSA registration year starts in October, any girl who decided to switch to Scouts BSA in February will still be a member of GSUSA through next September. A big question for GSUSA is whether these girls will continue dual registering or whether they will stick with only one organization next year.
  3. Moderaters, please move my post if you think it is in the wrong forum but . . . GSUSA is now, perhaps inadvertantly, advertising Cub Scouts and Scouts BSA to at least some of its member families. I was, as a GSUSA parent, sent a link to a survey for parents asking a lot of questions about my family's opinions of and experience with GSUSA. One of the questions was "Which other activities or organizations will your girl be busy with? (Select all that apply.) . . . Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts (Scouts BSA). . ." So if I had not been aware that Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts were admitting girls, I would be now.
  4. I can see three possible styles of camping that need three different types of equipment 1) backpacking. lightweight backpacking stoves. 2) front country camping where you want lots of time for other activities, and so want to cook quickly, using a propane stove, which is boringly similar to cooking in the kitchen at home. 3) front country camping somewhere you can build a campfire for cooking, on a trip when you have time to build a campfire for cooking. And then you need to keep this stuff organized. For #2 or #3, any do you have any recommendations between a) classic wooden patrol box that neatly organizes stuff and opens up into a work surface but weighs a ton (when empty) b) some kind of plastic rolling tool box So far we have been using equipment borrowed from troop families and a local boys' troop, and dumped into plastic tote bins, and returned to their respective homes after each trip. We'd like to be a little better organized. Also have it better set up so that our (very young) quartermaster can better manage the gear with less adult help -- a patrol box would seem managable for a 6th grade quartermaster to keep in order. Recommendations?
  5. Well I guess it would be. At your suggestion I went looking and found that Bryan on Scouting had already thought so: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2019/03/05/what-do-you-do-if-a-leader-is-too-quick-to-sign-off-requirements/ Revocation of authorization really sounds like the nuclear option. Have you ever seen it done?
  6. How to "flex their position of leadership muscle" while still remaining on good, cooporative terms -- that could be tricky. I think another go-round of attempted gentle persuasion first may be in order. I am still learning the interaction styles of the other scouters, and how hard I can push and have it still perceived as friendly, not hostile. Have you ever heard of the "tact-filter" theory? ( http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html )Nerds (scientists, engineers, etc) apply the appropriate amount of tact to everything they hear -- and when nerds interact with nerds everyone is happy. "Normal" people apply the appropriate amount of tact to everything they say -- and when normal people interact with normal people, everyone is happy. But "normal" people think the nerds are downright rude, and nerds think that the "normal" people beat around the bush in an infuriating way. And I don't know the other scouters well enough yet to know where they fall on this scale.
  7. I agree. Now, to implement this -- helping new and inexperienced scouters see the importance and benefit of requiring a full demononstration of skill mastery. Suppose you want to convince an ASM, new to BSA, about how rushing through shortchanges the scouts. About how cutting corners on demonstration of skill mastery shortchanges the scouts. Do you have, say, any recommended reading to suggest? (This is not a hypothetical question, I would like to bring someone around to this point of view and have not succeeded yet.)
  8. The article is so confused that it is difficult to tell whether or not the scouts are confused. A few examples from a single quote why I think the reporter did not know what she was talking about: 1) Girl Scouts has no ranks 2) One does not "graduate" to the gold award. 3) Their troop disbanding is not a direct consequence of their completing the gold award. 4) "will be considered a girl scout for life and will be able to start their own troop". In my area, moms with absolutely no scouting background are pressed into becoming troop leaders, has nothing to do with what experience they had in scouting as a kid. 5) "will be considered girl scout for life? Very unclear whether this is referring to the old idea of "once a scout always a scout" or whether it means that they are planning to purchase lifetime memberships in GSUSA as adults.
  9. https://sippican.theweektoday.com/article/rochester-girl-scouts-try-boy-scout-ranks/40541 has a great picture of Girl Scouts, wearing Girl Scout uniforms, holding their newly acquired Scouts BSA handbooks for girls. If I understand it correctly (and the article is a little confusing) a whole troop of girl scouts has joined the boy scouts. They plan to finish up their GSUSA gold awards, and also work on Boy Scout ranks.
  10. Hi Barry, Sorry, I don't mean to "rub sand in the wound". I am genuinely interested in learning what the BSA differences are. Every so often I feel like I am in never-never-land when something that I thought was common to all parts of the scout movment turns out not to be. I really appreciate that you are helping me learn the BSA way of doing things.
  11. Absolutely, context matters. But since @Cburkhardt was talking about scouting, "the movement" seemed perfectly clear to me. Anyone else care to comment about how common and recognizable this "movement" terminology is currently in BSA? I have been learning that in some cases BSA is just different from what I am familiar with in that other branch of the scout movement, WAGGGS. I keep encountering things that surprise me, especially in areas that BSA is just different, even different from other WOSM scout organizations. (Scout sign with hand at shoulder height, or with upper arm horizontal? Scout sign as part of the scout handshake? Scout "Oath" rather than "Promise? The third part of the scout Oath/Promise, symbolized by the third finger of the scout sign is what?
  12. Hi Barry, I don't know how common the "movement" terminology is in BSA currently, but it goes way back. The preface of the 1911 BSA handbook starts "The Boy Scout Movement has become almost universal . . ." and the first chapter of the 1920 Scouting for Girls starts "When Sir Robert Baden-Powell founded the Boy Scout movment in England . . ."
  13. The scout movement, or perhaps more specifically the "World Organization of the Scout Movement".
  14. When speaking to prospective female scouts and their families, I deliberately use the term "Boy Scouts of America", for example "a new Boy Scouts of America troop for girls" or "an all-girls Boy Scouts of America" troop. Why? Because the general public is familiar with the term "Boy Scouts" and does not know the term "Scouts BSA". I am careful though with terminology, and try to use "Boy Scouts of America" instead of "Boy Scouts" since the organization is still "Boy Scouts of America" even though the program name is now "Scouts BSA"
  15. To be clear, I am not talking about favoritism, I am talking about specialization in roles. (And even with a non-linked troop, how many roles a committee member takes on may vary with the size of the committee.)
  16. One new issue, caused by the presence of girls, is the linked troop structure. While I am very pleased to hear about @Cburkhardt's success with a non linked troop, for those of us with small girls' troops in not-quite-so-densely populated areas, and with scouters (parents of the girls) who don't have the years of experience working with BSA scout troops, the mentoring that is available from the linked boys' troops is invaluable. But that raises lots of new questions about best practises: Just how to structure the linkage? Do we do any activities jointly or all separately? Which ones? Do individual adults on the committee focus on one troop or the other, or on both? Etc. Etc. Hearing about other troops experiences (good and bad) would be helpful.
  17. Thanks for the explanations so far. They are helpful. Now for the second half of my question: do any of you also have an official BSA source to point to for the differences? That I could show to an adult who is not seeing eye-to-eye with other adults as to what exactly some of the requirements require?
  18. What is the difference between "demonstrate" and "show" in the S-T-1-2 rank requirements? Is there one? And can anyone point me to any official BSA resources stating the difference (or the lack of difference) between the two?
  19. Hi @Eagledad, I just don't understand what you mean. Can you restate in different words? By "the patrol environment is very important to growth" I mean that learning to work with others in a patrol environment is important to the growth of the individual scouts.
  20. I think that the patrol environment is very important to growth (based on my experience eons ago with patrols in a girl scout / girl guide context). Why do you think that patrols will be neglected now that girls have joined BSA? But I could see a girls' patrol having a rather different style of operation than a boys' patrol, just as any two patrols could come to have their own style or culture.
  21. I am really really liking the linked troop model. Maybe because we are linked to a really great boys troop. Separate (so far) meetings and all outings to date. Joint (so far) opening flag ceremonies. Upcoming planned joint activities: the annual Court-of-Honor and family potluck, the annual family camp-out (siblings invited), ILST. Merit badge groups will likely be open to scouts from both troops. The girls (and boys) have their own space. They can do things with their own style. (What do my newbie scouts plan and cook on their first campout? Gourmet meals -- but the conclusion afterwards was that they were really inefficient and could do better next time.)
  22. I am feeling that the amount of intervention is a tricky judgment call in this case. On our recent campout, there was a point at which, if I had been out with a bunch of junior girl scouts (grade 4) I would have told them "look at the kaper chart". But I held off. Eventually I did call the patrol leader out of the happily sociallizing crowd of girls and whisper in her ear that she might think about having her scouts take a look at the duty roster. The girls had a great time. But they did end up concluding that they would like to be more efficient next time.
  23. Hi Barry, You aren't talking about my scouts, are you? No trouble with lack of focus. They just prioritized getting out of doors over picking a patrol name. The PLC meeting has even scheduled in the date on which the patrol name will be picked.
  24. This is why I am glad that the girls and boys are in separate troops. I hope we don't get there. I doubt that the girls were instant experts. In my troop (which definitely would not be winning any camporee contests yet) we had girls come in that already had some scouts skills. (One-match fire building? Yup, one girl could do that. Quite familiar with lashing? Yup, one girl could do that. Done a lot of backpacking? Yup, one girl had. Different girls for each skill.)
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