Treflienne

It is my understanding that it is worn by all youth and adult members of BSA, and there is no requirement for a scout to do anything to earn the right to wear it. https://www.scouting.org/international/information-sheets/22-330/ I have already read, here on scouter forum, that in the past BSA did have requirements for wearing it.

Can you wear the world crest without wearing a uniform? Why do I ask? Because the girls' uniforms are not yet in at our local scout shop. And our girls will be registered as of two days from now. And they (or at least one of them) wants to be able to show her membership in the WOSM even though she won't yet have a uniform. (I think she envisions temporarily attaching it with a safety pin to her ordinary clothing.)

Also, from the foreword, written by Robert Baden Powell, in Scouting for Girls, the 1920 Girl Scout handbook.

Marguerite de Beaument (who was one of the original Girl Scouts who showed up at the Crystal Palace rally) wrote a biography of Baden-Powell (The Wolf That Never Sleeps, 1944), intended to be read by the girl guides, in which she wrote: (p. 45-46)

@qwazse I know that. And as I have said previously, it would be brand suicide for GSUSA to go with "Guides". There is very little recognition of the term in the U.S. Our little Brownies are always surprised to hear that elsewhere in the world girl scouts are called "girl guides". But the made-up name I used in this post was "Girlscout", echoing Girlguiding's running together of the two words.

The UK has "The Scout Association" (WOSM) and "Girlguiding" (WAGGGS). Perhaps we in the US are on our way to a situation in which a Scout and a Girlscout are as distinct as an Apple and a Pineapple. (Especially since some GSUSA councils are advising their people to always put the word "girl" in front of the word "scout".)

@John-in-KC This is morphing in the direction of a discussion of new leaders for linked troops. How about a Forum or Subforum devoted to Linked Troops? 3 days till we start. I expect that we will all be learning as we go along, and being able to pool experiences here will be helpful --- and it will be even more helpful if it is easy for people to find the posts relevant to linked troops by having a Forum or Subform for them.

With a boys unit splitting off from a boys unit --- new youth have to choose between the units. With a girls unit linking to a boys unit, it is clear which unit each new youth should join. That might help. Nobody yet knows how this is going to work out. We have the idea, locally, that the girls troop may be quite heavily supported by the boys troop initially, but start doing more and more stuff independent of the boys as the girls troop (girls and adults) gain experience.

It may be time to see just how poor a fit the boy-cut quick-dry shirts are on the girls. Only a few days now till they are registerd scouts.

I'd like to insert a new thought into this discussion. You know the saying. "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good". I'd also like to point out that when the first Boy Scout troops for boys started, a hundred or so years ago, none of the scouters had grown up in the program as youth. What if the choice is between a troop with inexperienced adults who at least think they want to learn, and no troop at all? (This may be the case for some of the new girls' troops.) We have youth wanting to be in Scouting and use the BSA program. Do we offer them a troop full of inexperienced scouts (them) and inexperienced adults? Or do we offer them nothing at all? By the way, this is one reason why I think that the linked troop idea is a good idea --- so that the experienced scouters in the boys' troop can mentor and help the scouters in the girls' troop.

Class A's are a "field uniform". Skirts and dresses are no good for such -- they would only be good as a dress uniform. And yellow shows dirt stains a lot more than tan does. Actually I have been disappointed that scoutstuff.org is only showing the girls-fit shirt in the cotton blend. How about a quick-dry Class A shirt for girls, so that it is actually suitable to wear on outings? Has anyone heard if one will be forthcoming? (We have told our girls to hold off on buying uniforms until it becomes clear what options will be available.)

A dance? Yikes! I'd rather supervise scouts playing with fire than at a dance. As the wording goes in the 1st edition scout handbook: "A scout is friendly. He is a friend to all and a brother to every other scout." In line with that I'd rather have the (male) scouts viewing the (female) scouts as siblings than as potential dance partners. Stupid question here, but are dances common or uncommon features of Boy Scout camps?

Reviving this thread about recommended Massachusetts summer camps. For a new Scouts BSA troop of girls new to Scouting (but not all new to camping) have you any recommendations of great camps readily accessible from the Boston suburbs or the middle of Massachusetts? In particular any comments on recent year's experiences at Resolute, Treasure Valley, or Wanocksett?

I started reading this forum last year, as a parent of a girl who wants to join BSA, with the idea of learning more about the BSA as I prepare to become a volunteer. It has been extremely helpful to read the range of opinions. I have been impressed by the number of people (too many for me to remember all their names) who, even though preferring for Boy Scouts to remain single gender, have been kind and courteous to answer my questions and give good advice as to how to have a good program for the girls. And I have been encouraged by the number of people who are obviously genuinely enthusiastic about girls in the program. I can put up with a few curmudgeons. Actually, I have appreciated hearing from them, also. I have appreciated learning, in this online forum, what some of the sensitive issues are. Better for me to learn that here, rather than to accidentally and unnecessarily annoy some of the old-time scouters in my town.

Does this mean that "Leadership Development" is no longer one of the Methods?

I looked at some cross-over ceremonies on the web, and they do seem to include the Oath and Law. Also, since 2015, the cross-overs will already have been using the Scout Oath and Scout Law as cubs, so they will already have subscribed to them as cubs. And the Scout Rank seems like it will take a little longer to earn than Scout did previously (or even than Tenderfoot did back in the 1911 handbook.) So the question really only comes up for new scouts who were never scouts or cubs before. I am looking for best practise for new scouts who were never scouts or cubs before. How to encourage them to think carefully about the Oath and Law, and be aware that they pledging themselves to a way of life, and not just drift into saying the oath thoughtlessly. While such new never-been-cubs scouts have probably been unsusual in recent yeats, we have on the order of a dozen (girls) who look like they will be joining Scouts BSA next month. Decent chance the girls will do combined opening ceremonies (at least part of the time) with a boys troop with which we will be linked. And the boys troop recites the oath and law at the beginning of each meeting. My personal (completely uneducated) opinion would be to have these new scouts think carefully about the oath and law and (in some fashion) swear them in at their first meeting the first week of February. But perhaps that is contrary to how things should be done in BSA. (I am definitely influenced by my GSUSA background, so I have a lot to learn.) Making them wait until they earn the Scout Rank to publically recite the Oath would seem like too long a wait -- and the boys who come up from cubs do not have that wait. Looking for opinions from opinionated people who find tradition meaningful, and who care about the Oath and Law.

Was this done very soon after they registered and began attending meetings? Or was this done after they had earned Scout rank?

You loved the berets? We Girl Scouts also had berets in the 1970s and they were awful. Never stayed in place. I think that GSUSA has gotten rid of many things it should not have gotten rid of, but I don't mind the disappearance of the berets at all.

So in GSUSA, a generation back at least, when we had an investiture for the new girl scouts we would sometimes also have what we called a "rededication ceremony" for the rest of the girl scouts (perhaps once a year). A log candleholdle with three candles for the three point of the Scout Promise, and another log candleholder with ten candles for the ten points of the Girl Scout Law . . . (But we had no "spirit of scouting" candle.)

So I looked up the (UK) Scout Association web site and saw that in the UK the Cub Scout Promise is different from the Scout Promise. (In particular the cub promise refers to a different, briefer, Law). So your new scouts, at their investiture, are making a new promise that they did not make in cubs. How long, typically, from when they start attending the scout meetings until their investituture? And during their time leading up to their investiture, when the rest of the scouts are reciting the Scout Promise at the start of the meeting (which I am assuming they do) then do these new scouts-to-be recite the Scout Promise along with the scouts, or do they wait until their investiture?

That would probably also work fine for any fifth grade girls crossing over from cubs to scouts this year also, and maybe for a few years. Everyone currently knows the old name "Boy Scout" much better than the new name "Scouts BSA", even the new girls.

Thanks so much for sharing that video. Apart from the setting (the high ropes course) and from the mention of the queen is the promise, it is very similar to what I am familiar with from GSUSA.

I would appreciate that.

So it seems like there were a couple of related changes in 2015 that are significant for the idea of an investiture: 1) Cub Scouts started using the same Scout Oath and Scout Law as Boy Scouts 2) "Scout" turned into a rank, rather than a joining badge, ( https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/10/19/scout-currently-joining-badge-become-rank/ ) So back when cubs didn't have the same oath, then in order to get the scout "joining badge" they needed to as well as a few other things which look like they could mostly have been done the first week the boy began attending the troop meetings. After the 2015 changes, most boys were coming into scouts from cubs already familiar with and subscribing to the Scout Oath. The new scout rank requirements are a little more involved, including So it looks like the current scout rank assumes that the boy has been trying for some time to put into practise the Scout Oath and Scout Law, rather than making an initial agreement to being trying to do so. (Which should certainly be true of any boy coming up from cubs.) So the Scout rank looks like a great time to recieve the custom troop neckerchief and woggle, after having demonstrated some committment to Boy Scouting, for boys coming up from cubs. But what about those kids who were never cub scouts. It will likely take most of them a few weeks to achieve scout rank. In the meantime they are attending the scout meeting each week. Do they just drift into saying the Scout Oath along with the other boys. Or is there some way to emphasize that what they are doing is a significant new undertaking for them? Might their be some form of investiture separate from and prior to the attainment of the Scout Rank, to signify that they are commencing to subscribe to the Scout Oath and Scout law?

Yes, please.