an_old_DC

I am hearing all of this through the grapevine as well. Word on the street also is an announcement at NOAC.

Regarding a breaking point, it is all adding up quickly for me. Scouts BSA announcement, Councils turning a blind eye to a lack of female leaders in packs, professionals pretending early adopter packs are not running co-ed dens, professionals ignoring conversations right in front of them about troops planning to run co-ed, and now the OA membership eligibility changes. I am not anti-girls. I have had young women in my crew for almost 12 years, including trips to Philmont, but this is all starting to be too much.

This is incredibly disappointing. Plus the whole backdoor approach to allowing previous years of experience and camping to retroactively count rubs salt in the wound. I keep hearing rumors that National Lodge is going to "forbid" use of Native American regalia in ceremonies soon. In less than 5 years it'll be a meaningless "honor club."

It figures a parent is involved in this nonsense—and probably one who is not an OA member. you should be able to find contact info for the Lodge Advisor, adult volunteer, on your lodges website. Your Chapter Advisor might know (some are really knowledgeable and some not so much).

@Eagle1993 @Gwaihir yeah, I get what you mean. The problem is parents are seeing this drip,, drip, drip steady stream from National about how “Scouting is for the whole family.” What happens when their son wants to join Troop 123 out of their Catholic Church but it is a boys-only troop so the daughter can’t join? So she can join a small, girls only troop out of the Lutheran Church, but it’s program isn’t as good. They will end up feeling BSA, or whatever it will be called by then, lied to them. Then the complaining will really begin

If they are good and are dedicated to helping their unit, Yes. Admittedly, UC are hard to recruit and really good ones are few and far between.

I hope you are wrong but I absolutely can see that happening. I have a hunch this whole thing has already been planned out.

Absolutely agree with David. Anybody with any real-world experience knows this “linked troop” business with everything shared between two troops except the SM will often lead to mixed patrols in one troop. Especially after parents and girls get used to seeing it in packs. I can hear the “but that’s how the pack did it” complaining now. Then Scouters will realize just how difficult it is to start a new unit—especially without a critical mass of girls. I am hearing from unit’s in my Council and seeing all sorts of social media posts across the country about how their unit flat out intends to go co-ed with girl and boy patrols mixed and the professionals do not correct them. Council-level professionals I work with are already saying they cannot prevent unit’s from doing that as long as on paper the unit’s are separate.

So, you mean Unit Commissioners?

It isn't the sole reason but it certainly is a contributing cause. Every story from National's PR juggernaut and every story in the media has a quote from somebody saying something to the effect that, their daughter has always tagged along and done everything with the boys and they are absolutely ecstatic now because she can finally do it "officially." When the professionals acknowledge and cite it for the record, you realize how prevalent it really must be.

I have done it too, and most people dont realize how exhausting it really is. You have to focus on the long game of putting all the pieces in place, recruiting and training adults, and recruiting boys (yeah, I said it) for future growth while still getting meetings and campouts done in the short term.

Call me cynical, but I am experienced, and as long as packs sell enough popcorn and bring in enough FOS money, the professionals will ignore packs having co-ed dens. And as long as council and districts can grow their number of units, they wont care if its on-paper only and the troops are functionally co-ed

I would bypass the DE and go right to Scout Executive over sex offender concerns.

According to the new marketing material, girls would just call themselves Scouts

They could say they are a Boy Scout but there will not be a Boy Scout program

You are probably right. Of course they never cracked down on rogue packs full of tag along girls “unofficially” earning badges, and they never cracked down on rogue troops with tag along girls on outings...but that’s different.🙄

No Boy Scout troop with a long and proud history is going to drop Boy and call themselves Scout Troop Xxx

@RememberSchiff check out the Scout Me In resources here https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Scout-Me-In-and-Scouts-BSA.pdf no mention of Boy Scouts after February 1. Youth that age will say “I am a Scout.”

Summer 2020 will be the end of an era, which is kinda sad. Talked about this at a council-level meeting this morning. Interesting observation: of all the professionals and volunteers with a “what’s the big deal? Get over it attitude” , none of them were Arrowmen as youth. So basically, they cannot relate

This is what I am hearing too.

This thread blows my mind. Six pages...so far? How can it even remotely be considered hazing if the SM has a quiet conversation away from other Scouts, discussing why there was a safety concern and how it can be avoided in the future? Its a quiet teaching moment that ends with clipping a card's corner. Nobody else even knows the card was clipped.

I agree with you but I couldn't get the CC to go along with that and I didn't want to make empty threats. She would only agree to move them from ASM to comm member if they wouldn't camp one a school year. When I was SM, the troop had approximately 70 Scouts. the troop ran well when I was SM with two strong ASMs.

Been there, done that. It’s their ego. They want to stand around in the back of the room in an ASM shirt and tell everybody “I am one of the troop's Scoutmasters.” In reality, they do nothing. As SM, I held a beginning of the year planning meeting for ASMs. As part of that meeting, I brought a calendar of campouts for that school year, and told them my expectation is all ASMs camp sometimes...and any ASM who does not camp a minimum of once per school year would be moved to committee member on the next charter. A couple stepped up and began to camp, a few became committee members and a few quit.

@Hawkwin, I am sorry for your, and your daughter's situation. Seriously. This is what happens when adult leaders rush in to something with no plan and no regard for National's policies. But that's water under the bridge now. How to best salvage the situation? Are you receiving any input or guidance from the CM? Any communication at all? What happens at pack meetings? Are there other girls in the pack? If so, they should all be put in one den so they can have a den experience. it is probably also worth a phone call or two to see if that district or council has an "early adopter champion" who can offer guidance and direction.

August of this year, when school starts