Eagle1993

A good EBOR will bring up items in the letters without disclosing who wrote them. The scout already gets to select who provides the letters, the feedback from those letters should be unfiltered. I am aware of EBORs where letters were negative. The boards asked questions raised in those letters and the scouts responded well (essentially admitting past mistakes and that he has grown and matured). So, instead of whispers by some that a scout isn’t Eagle worthy, he had the chance to confront the negative feedback directly. While I agree with @qwazse that one should have the stones to provide negative feedback directly but many do not and the current method allows those individuals the opportunity to provide unfiltered feedback.

I attempted to think of various ways this forum can change, but it is difficult to see a way unless Mr. Mosby changes how National listens to volunteers. I was/am 100% behind the various changes with respect to gays, transgender and girls; however, it was not handled well by National. I think what we need, to be effective in providing feedback, is more transparency. There is a ton of unit and district experience on this forum. When decisions are being made/debated without transparency, we are left guessing and providing opinions on partial info. So, if Mr. Mosby brings forth more transparency, I think we should be willing to discuss/provide feedback regarding the issues of today without constantly bringing up actions from the past. We should understand that the youth, parents, media and culture today are different than those in the 1980s and prior. So what worked in 1965 or 1985 may not work today. However, we also should stay true to the mission of the BSA. Finding that balance is difficult, and we should be willing to admit that while providing feedback and comments. Now, if Mr. Mosby starts by talking about eliminating god from Scouting, kicks off a poll, refuses to release the results and announces the change ... the gloves come off. 🙂

I expect his first job will be keeping BSA alive through bankruptcy. This will include saving our high adventure bases and major cost cutting. He should read Bullsh*t Jobs by David Graeber and Six Simple Rule by Yves Morieux. Both talk to how corporations (and private enterprise) create inefficient and ineffective solutions to solving problems. Centralize what makes sense for consistency or cost needs (IT, uniform, program requirements, marketing (some)). Distribute the rest back to councils, districts, units. Lay off most if not all assistant chief scout executives ... I see no reason why their high salaries are needed. Find ways to revitalize our volunteer ranks. They (unit, district and council) are the key to our success. Consider dropping non core items to our methods or aims (learning for life, STEM) so focus can remain on the program. Reach out to long term volunteers who quit to find out why... if it is girls/gays, not much you can do, but I expect there are other reasons that may be able to be improved. Just a few thoughts. This will be a significant challenge and I wish him the best of luck.

LinkedIn profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/roger-mosby-a6300a61 He worked for Enron for 11 years... Hope he can guide us through the next few years. I expect it to be a bit bumpy.

I’m starting to hear rumors that there will be more changes at National after the year end and work will start transferring to councils. Not sure what work but should be interesting to see where this goes.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/12/17/mormons-pulling-youths/ Interesting highlights below: "The reality there is we didn't really leave them; they kind of left us," high-ranking church leader M. Russell Ballard recently said about the split. His comment upset Boy Scout officials, Perry said, because the organization went to great lengths to ensure the faith still had robust religious liberty protections after the Scouts welcomed openly gay troop members and leaders — even allowing the church to craft the language. ..... As of 2013, there were more than 430,000 Latter-day Saint boys in the Boy Scouts. The latest tally of the Scouts' total youth membership was about 2.2 million last year, and its press office confirmed that the church exodus would push that number close to 1.8 million. ... (About Philmont)...The Scouts says similar liens are in place for its other national properties, including its headquarters in Texas and “high adventure” bases in Minnesota, Florida and West Virginia.

My committee meetings are held in bars, so no scout uniforms, oath or law. Our opening ceremony is starting a tab. That said, if committee meetings are held at other locations reciting the pledge is a good opening.

I believe that @The Latin Scot has had his uniform custom tailored and has mentioned that it turned out well. He may provide additional details. Uniform shirts seem to last a long time, so I say go for it.

I agree. I have been looking at various councils and haven’t seen it either. By the way, this form is now hard attached to adult applications so it will take some time to update those. Was hoping to see the change but haven’t yet.

We haven’t tried this yet but I have heard it works for a local unit. They host a youth activity event at the local school. They invite all clubs and activities in the area to attend. Then all advertise that date to try and have youth and parents go. At the event, they have pictures or videos showing scouts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_of_monuments_to_Vladimir_Lenin_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firdos_Square_statue_destruction https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-21666091/syria-crisis-raqqa-crowds-topple-assad-statue Perhaps you can find Nazi memorials in Germany...nope. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/germany-has-no-nazi-memorials/597937/ There are many, many, many more examples of former leader status being torn down. I think it is probably the opposite. USA was one of the few countries to honor traitors who tried to keep in place a system of slavery and murdered tens of thousands of people in their effort. Lee was a great general but had a choice. Lincoln wanted him to stay with the Union. He made his choice as did Jackson... we should not honor these people. Just as Iraq no long honors Saddam, Ukraine Lenin, Syria Assad, etc. What you fight for matters.

I read through the line of credit document for Philmont. https://ministrywatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Mortgage-Agreement-Philmont-without-exhibits.pdf Some interesting findings: 1) It appears that Philmont is not the only property to be mortgaged to secure the line of credit. One could only guess that most properties (notice the offshore reference … Sea Base Bermuda) are now probably mortgage Section 12.13 Counterparts - This Mortgage is being executed in several counterparts, all of which are identical, except that to facilitate recordation, if the Mortgaged Property is situtated offshore or in more than one county, descriptions of only those portions of the Mortgaged Property located in the county in which a particular counterpart is recorded shall be attached as Exhibit A thereto. …. Section 11 also mentions other Mortgages 2) It looks like any major work on any property that is under Mortgage will have to be approved by JP Morgan. If true, looks like a added hurdle for any major changes at these locations. Section 3.14 Alternations - Long section, but looks like any alteration exceeding $100,000 must be approved prior to start by JPMorgan. Also includes a doozy (not sure if this is standard) that "Mortgagee may, as a condition to giving its consent to a Material Alteration, require that Mortgagor deliver to Mortgagee security for payment of the cost of such Material Alteration in an amount equal to 125% of the cost of the Material Alteration as estimated by Mortgagee. ... 3) Bankruptcy protection … this one is interesting. I wonder if we have any experts that would shed light on this session. There is speculation that BSA setup these Mortgages in prep for bankruptcy. Basically, secure LOC on all our properties, which prevents them from being sold off. Not sure, but if that is the strategy, great news. Section 5.3 … this Mortgage shall constitute a "security agreement" for purposes of Section 552(b) of the Bankruptcy Code … 4) Prior Debts … I think this is the section others point to saying Philmont had a prior Mortgage. Two issues with that. One is that Philmont is never mentioned in this section and per my point 1, this same document is used for other properties. There is no clear document that Philmont had a prior mortgage. Bunch of Whereas's … 2010 Loans … Principal Amount of up to $75M … term loan in aggregate principal amount of $25M … so $25M debt here 2010 Bond Agreement … located om West Virginia on behalf of Fayette County and Arrow WV, Inc. Series 2010A revenue bond of principal $50M and Commercial Development bond 2010B of principal $50M … both loaned to BSA through Arrow WV, Inc. … so looks like $100M of debt here, not sure 2012 Bond Agreement … Also references Arrow WV Project, Commercial Development Revenue Bond principal of $0.175M … peanuts Based on the summary of this section, it sounds like these prior loans & bonds are just referenced and not replaced by this new LOC. Not sure what to make of all of this, but found the above interesting.

@TAHAWK I’m just happy they are listening and adjusting a bit in this case. However, given that they hocked Philmont, I wouldn’t recommend giving them your bank account info any time soon.

I don’t blame you.. Hope this works. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156762459640658&id=414443808703460&ref=bookmarks Here is the FB post. Posted in Talk About Scouting.

CBC Forms released 11-25-19.zip See attached forms. Updated language is in the Additional-Disclosures... document. I'm having trouble linking the post.

Just saw new forms referenced on Facebook. I haven’t been able to download them yet. See FB post below. Thanks goes to the FB poster & BSA for listening! New CBC Forms Released Today. READ ALL OF THIS POST. IF A PERSON HAS TURNED IN THE NEW FORMS THERE IS NO ACTION NECESSARY UNLESS THEY WANT TO SUBMIT THE NEW FORM THAT SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDES THE CREDIT CHECK AS THESE FORMS DO. There is a new sentence in the forms that says, "This authorization applies only to criminal checks/driving records and does not allow the Company to obtain credit checks." It can be found in the form you sign titled "Additional Disclosures-and-background-check-authorization. Note: There are different forms depending if you are in California or the other 49 states. Link is for a zip file of all the forms since you can only upload 1 file in a post, and it won't let me upload the zip. Source: BSA Legal provided the documents. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktde7yyx3d206aj/CBC Forms released 11-25-19.zip?file_subpath=%2FAdditional-Disclosures-And-Background-Check-Authorization-NOT-CALIFORNIA+112519.pdf

We have had multiple discussions with our PLC about Cyberchip. The scouts’ response vary between laughing and annoyance. I have not heard a single scout tell me it is valuable and unique. As mentioned, the information is typically outdated and at best redundant to what they see in school.

In an updated FB post she referenced the lawsuit that @RememberSchiff posted on our forum... essentially the request that he file a lawsuit. I don’t think she has inside knowledge of the situation and is speculating.

National must answer the following questions: 1) When did they start using Philmont as collateral for debt (March 2019 or earlier)? 2) Did the action taken in March 2019 put Philmont in any more risk of loss regardless of BSA’s financial situation? 3) What specific expenses was the credit line/increase of Credit line from Philmont used for? 4) What other options were considered? 5) How was the Philmont volunteer committee involved in either the decision and/or post decision report out? 6) What is the status of the other BSA properties? The decision they made may have been the right one, but their process continues to be poor. They take input from volunteers they ignore and then seem to tell half truths when rolling out change. I’m been supportive of many of their changes, but regardless, they have not been fully truthful or transparent. It’s time for a change of leadership.

There could be a chance Philmont was mortgaged since 2010 I just didn’t see it in the document. I did look into the references Arrow WV Inc. That is a non profit setup by the BSA. I checked Arrow WV Inc last 990 from Dec 2017 and found that at the end of 2017 it had liabilities of $330M and net income of -8.5M.

I read the mortgage and the references to the 2010 and 2012 agreement didn’t include Philmont, it was for land in West Virginia for the “Arrow WV Project”. Project Arrow (in Wedt Virgina) is Summit.

Based on what it looks like to me, they had an existing line of credit, needed to increase it, looked at what they had available to hock and decides that Philmont looked good to them. At some point you have to ask what they wouldn’t be willing to put at risk.

I just went to council two weeks ago post Eagle BOR. They only needed the advancement sheet and the 2 page signed application to go to National, not the workbook. So perhaps this did change.

Yes, private organization can discriminate if they can prove it conflicts with their organization mission/values. The Supreme Court has been fairly consistent. While I personally believe BSA made a mistake banning gay youth in the first place and an even bigger mistake fighting it so publicly in court, I don’t believe it was a primary cause of our massive membership drop. Nor do I believe that reversing the decision was the primary cause for further loss. If this was the case, the Coed Campfire program and the conservative Trail Life program would each have hundreds of thousands of youth. Both are barely the size of an average council. I’ve never had a youth leave the program that brought up the social issues. Only once, with a close friends who don’t join, was the gay ban brought up. They said they wouldn’t sign up their scout because of it... I explained that changed... they still didn’t sign up. BSA, outside of Eagle Scout, is not in the formula for getting little Jonny into the best colleges. STEM or STEAM education has replaced the Scout Law as the National crisis. Patrol method is messy, parents are not patient to let it work. Youth have plenty of other opportunities for entertainment and are typically already over scheduled. Done right, scouting is a fun experience that does teach critical values and skills our nation needs. Unfortunately, too few know this and I see further declines in membership ahead.

These things don’t magically happen. It takes dedication of many volunteers inside and outside the units at the District level to put on good programs. Yes, our unit has a lot of our own events throughout the year but it is greatly enhanced by broader outings. I could add some districts have talented unit commissions that help out struggling units. If districts and councils don’t matter, then why do certain council areas flourish and over perform in terms of youth participating in scouting and others languish? I don’t believe that is random. I believe when councils and district professionals find and support their experienced/solid council and district volunteers, it absolutely helps units perform well and deliver and improved program. Perhaps I should amend my initial summary... good Districts and Councils are vital to scouting.