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Posts posted by Eagle1993

    I am writing to you today in anticipation of news reports that will speculate about the BSA’s financial position. We have an important duty, and an incredible opportunity, to focus as an organization on keeping children safe, supported and protected, and preparing youth for their futures through our nation’s foremost program of character development and values-based leadership training. 

    To do so in perpetuity, we are working with experts to explore all options available to ensure that the local and national programming of the Boy Scout of America continues uninterrupted. We have a social and moral responsibility to fairly compensate victims who suffered abuse during their time in Scouting, and we also have an obligation to carry out our mission to serve youth, families and local communities through our programs.

    We care deeply about all victims of child sex abuse and we are steadfast in our belief that one incident of child abuse is one too many. We sincerely apologize to anyone who was harmed during their time in our programs. As you all know, we have always taken care of victims – we believe them, we believe in fairly compensating them and we have paid for unlimited counseling, by a provider of their choice, regardless of the amount of time that has passed since an instance of abuse. Throughout our history we have taken proactive steps to help victims heal and prevent future abuse. I want to stress that at no time in our history have we knowingly allowed a sexual predator to work with youth, and we always seek to act swiftly when alerted to abuse allegations. 

    Please know that these matters continue to have the full attention of the highest levels of our organization, and we will communicate transparently as there are developments or updates to share. I wanted to update you today due to the news speculation, and I want to assure you that our daily mission will continue and that there are no imminent actions or immediate decisions expected. 

    Thank you for your continued support of the Boy Scouts of America.
    Michael B. Surbaugh
    Chief Scout Executive
    Prepared. For Life.
    Image Image Image Image
    Boy Scouts of America
    1325 West Walnut Hill Lane Irving, TX 75038
    Copyright © 2018 Boy Scouts of America. All rights reserved.


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  2. There wasn’t much beyond the first paragraph.  This is one key

    “Filing for bankruptcy would put the brakes on the litigation and give the nonprofit the chance to negotiate with victims who have sued.”

    I think the GSUSA damages (if any) could be lumped in.  

    However, bankruptcy could lead to some ugly outcomes.   

  3. As a Cub Scout Leader who is going through recharter, I can tell you we are losing scouts to sports and busy parents.  I have had 0 parents tell me that girls, gays or god made a difference with their membership.  What I have been told has been 2 major reasons for not joining or dropping....

    - both parents work schedules are too much to support their child in scouts... if they could simply drop them off at meetings and outings... that could work.  They don’t have time to help their son with PWD, etc.... already too busy.

    - Sports....they see sports, especially for boys, as the best way to grow their son.   

    For those inside the program, we know the unique benefits and experience scouts provides.  I don’t see the general parent population seeing it outside of the Eagle Scout.  My guess is that if they de-emphasized Eagle, you would see even faster attrition... it is the one topic I consistently have parents from outside scouting ask me about when considering joining.  


    • Upvote 3

  4. 1 hour ago, Treflienne said:

    I don't quite get it.   A Juliette is Girl Scout who is not a member of a troop -- what you might call a lone scout.   But what is the connection between the name Romeo and being a boy scout?

    So much discussion about the names got me thinking about the famous Romeo and Juliet line that fits this discussion .... “What's in a name? That which we call a rose
    By any other name would smell as sweet."  

    That got me thinking that someone could rewrite Romeo and Juliet to be a tragic story of two lovers... one from the house of BSA and the other GSUSA.   I then switched Juliet to Juliette given the GSUSA reference.

    • Thanks 1

  5. 3 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

    Well it hasn't happened yet.

    I was at a Council event last night and said something about "Boy Scouts" and somebody snottily said "You mean Scouts BSA." So I replied "No, I mean Boy Scouts. On February 1, this will be Scouts BSA, but right now this is still Boy Scouts."

    They weren't happy about it but admitted it is premature to call the program Scouts BSA.

    Usually it is about cub scouts crossing over this spring... so in that case the parents are right (correcting me when I say Boy Scouts).  That said, I have also had the snarky response from a few like you mention. 

  6. I was wondering where they would define what to call members of Scouts BSA... thanks for the link.  I’ve only remembered seeing  references to the program name.   I expect if 5-10 years, perhaps 50 based upon our UK friends’ experience, scouts will clearly mean Scouts BSA and Girl Scouts will be GSUSA.      That is unless GSUSA changes to Girl Guides.  So, if a girl is in Scouts BSA she would say... I’m a scout.  If she is in Girl Scouts she would state I’m a Girl Scout.  Boys will probably either call themselves scouts or Boy Scouts.... either should work.  

    Just had a thought.... I see a new take on Romeo and Juliette (see what I did there). Romeo is an Eagle Scout and Juliette is a Gold Scout.... you know the rest...”what’s in a name.”

    I’m surprised how quickly my area is already switching over to saying Scouts BSA.   I hear it from parents (those with kids in BSA) who correct me when I say Boy Scouts.  

  7. 27 minutes ago, dkurtenbach said:

    OMG, I would hope not - but thanks for checking.  😌  Girl Scouts ARE real Scouts.  Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venturers, Sea Scouts, and STEM Scouts ARE real Scouts.  BSA wanting us to say, "We are Scouts, they are Girl Scouts" just sounds . . . problematic. 

    They want us to say “Scouts BSA”.  Where do you see BSA staying “We are Scouts....”? 

  8. More info just announced...  Not sure how you get added yet.

    In anticipation of the Scouts BSA launch on February 1, 2019, families are already looking for units forming in their area. To help youth join scouts, the BSA has added new functionality that allows councils to display “Coming Soon” units in BeAScout.org.



    • Upvote 1

  9. 2 hours ago, WAKWIB said:

    Since all this really isn't supposed to go "live" before Feb. 2019, your Council may be hesitant in giving concrete answers to anything.  In theory, the chartering of girls troops is two months away.  On Feb. 1st,  I suspect your Council and all the rest will be fired up and ready to process applications.

    Actual this partially true. Chartering of new Girl Troops is underway.  If girls are to join Feb 1 you need to have a lot of work complete by then.  See attached for an example of a plan.  Note the contact names will be different for your council. I’m sharing this from a private FB account that is supported semi-officially by Nationals.  I recommend searching Facebook for “BSA. Family Packs/Girl Troops” and request to join.  There is a lot of info there.  

    Note:  This isn’t official and just one example from a leader. 

    Scout BSA New Troop Kit.pdf

    • Thanks 1
    • Upvote 1

  10. I looked back at some of the Pepsi vs Coke lawsuits.  Coke responded once that “... (it) seems as if Pepsi would prefer to fight in the courts rather than the marketplace.”  While I don’t see this as a fight, GSUSA seems to, and instead of focusing inward to see why girls are not joining (or leaving) they are fighting in the media and court.  That may work short term but long term parents and kids will find and choose the best fit for them (or none)... regardless of program names.

    BSA is offering refunds to any girls who joined Cub Scouts thinking it was Girl Scouts.  Surbaugh also notes that Scouts BSA was intentionally chosen vs Scouts.


    • Like 1

  11. 1 hour ago, FireStone said:

    What will be interesting to me is related to my earlier comment about whether or not the BSA would be held liable for what local units were doing, erroneously putting out flyers that read "girl scouts" or "girl scout troops".

    According to the video, BSA would be liable.  For example, Pack xyz sent our flyer that includes term “girls scout”.  Is sounds like GSUSA would have to prove damages from that specific flyer and BSA would be liable.  For a single unit flyer, What are the damages ... 1-3 lost members?  $60?  I think that is the point the lawyers were making as to why cease and desist letters make sense.

    At least that is how I interpreted their video.  

  12. 22 minutes ago, qwazse said:

    Mamma brought me up to defer to the ladies. 

    I also think the opinion of the ladies who join BSA would also be included in the equation, perhaps girl members of Venturing would have been a great group to ask.

    I don’t believe GSUSA should have the only and final input.  They have made it clear they want nothing to do with BSA going forward.  I’m sure their answer would be Backstabbing Scouts of America.  I hope that is repaired long term but I don’t see a name conversation happening short term as it would appear that they are approving of this change.  

  13. The 1 hour video above, by a Trademark attorney and a patent attorney seems to make clear the only thing GSUSA can enforce is the use of the term “Girl Scouts”  or very similar “girl scout” or “girl ... scout”.     They seem to indicate that scout is a generic term and no organization has the right to reserve a market for that term.  There is no way to protect a market (for example, Apple cannot use Trademark laws to prevent other PC sellers to sell “computers” to girls). Just as GSUSA cannot use Trademark law to prevent BSA from selling scouting services to girls.  They can be called scouts, just not “Girl Scouts”.

    In terms of the examples given, those that contain the word Girl Scout/s will be an issue and there could be some damages; however, they would have to prove the specific damages in those cases.  In addition, the example of Juliette quote is not actionable (not a trademark and past Copyright age) and the Girl Scout mission (not trademark could be copyright) is minimally actionable.   

    They saw no way for Girl Scouts to block Scouts BSA or Scout Life Trademarks.  In addition they raved about  BSA actions to date and claimed they are great in terms of legal impact.  The damages should be minimal (they mentioned could be as low as $1).  

    The video is long but informative.  At one point they even looked at who (name of lawyer) wrote the complaint as they were surprised at some inconsistencies.  One of the lawyers mentioned he was an Eagle Scout and loves the BSA so is biased.   Will be interesting to have other lawyers input.


  14. @NJCubScouter

    Would be interested in your take.

    It seems like they believe BSA will win the big battle (the name Scouts BSA) but GSUSA may see some wins in damages (but they would have to prove them and these two expect they will be minimal).  They called the BSA response “brilliant”, taking the high road and clarifying the brand do and don’ts.  

    After listening to them I question several of GSUSA’s examples as they are not strong indicators of Trademark infringement (for example the quote from Juliette is no longer copyrighted due to age of the quote).  

    Overall interesting take that seems to think that BSA has a strong case.  That would make sense as I expect BSA lawyers were part of the name selection.  

  15. 41 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

    Those of you wondering how people can confuse the two organizations are missing the point.  Most of the parents I deal with have never been involved in scouting in any way, shape, or fashion.  Even if you use the terms BSA and GSUSA, they assume they are divisions of some greater single entity.  

    I’ve never used the terms BSA or GSUSA with new parents.  I say Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts.  If parent is interested in scouting for little Sally I say, yep, she can join our Cub Scout Pack.  I also say we have a great Girl Scout program at our school and if she is interested I can give you their contact info.  Never had confusion after that.... and I will continue to help GSUSA regardless of some of their tactics.

  16. Finished reading that GSUSA guideline.  I have no problem showing the uniform, emphasizing their unique brand, ensuring GSUSA money is spent on GSUSA events.  Recruiting separate... sure.  Many valid points.   

    Telling a Troop of Girl Scouts that they can no longer participate in Scouting for Food because it is a BSA event crosses a line.  It crosses the line of an organization more self interested in $ than doing service. I haven’t seen that and GSUSA in my area still does some joint BSA activities when it involves community service... I hope that remains.

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