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Eagle1993

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Posts posted by Eagle1993

  1. TDP (Boy Scouts of America Trust Distribution Procedures for Abuse Claims) Findings ...

     ... she will not find the TDPs as "fair and equitable settlement of Abuse claims" as she does not see a need to do this to confirm the plan.

     ... she will not find the TDPs under Historical Consistency Finding.  Again, she doesn't think she needs to do this to confirm the plan.

    ... she will not find the TDPs under "The Binding Finding" ... unnecessary

    ...she may agree to "They Allowed Claim Finding" .. however, needs an update

    .. she will not find the TPDs under "The Good Faith Finding"

    Basically, she is punting the TDPs to future litigation as needed.  Major win for non settling insurers.

     

  2. She rejects the third party releases for TCJC (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints} as they went too far.  That is why she is excluding their $250M settlement as she expects that may change.

     

    The issue is TCJC were attempting to clear out mixed claims.  She is ok clearing out pure scouting abuse from TCJC, but mixed claims are a bridge too far.

     

    So ... "... I decline to approve the TCJC (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) Settlement."

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  3.  

    7) The settling insurer settlements meet the standard required.  Each insurer met the standard vs Ms. Gutzler's analysis EXCEPT Century.  However, two points.  BSA & Century were litigating coverage before bankruptcy & there is doubt if Century can pay more anyway.  Plus, TCC, Coalition & FCR approved it.  

    First Issue:

    She cannot approve the sale of abuse insurance policies in Guam.  The Guam bankruptcy court blocked it during the Archbishop bankruptcy there and based on a review of law.  

    A win for Lujan & Guam...

  4. It is very long!  Will attempt to summarize her findings:

    1) She agrees with the Bate's estimate of $2.4 - $3.6B.  

    2) She agrees with the insurance expert that potential allocation to solvent non-settling insurance companies is between $321,319,886 and $400,546,854 and total limits of coverage potentially available is $4,295,878,628 and $4,404,844,433.

    3) Based upon 1 & 2, the judge concludes that if the plan is confirmed, direct abuse claims will more likely than not be paid in full.

    4) She CANNOT approve the $250M contribution from TCJC (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) because, of a release of non-abuse claims.

    5) She also excluded contributions from other chartered orgs. for her analysis of #3 as there is nothing to really estimate a contribution

    6) She also exlcuded Pachulski Stang's contribution of 10% of fees.

    Regardless, she believes direct abuse will be paid in full. ... more coming

     

     

    • Thanks 1
  5. 3 minutes ago, ToKindle96 said:

    "here's your chance to be official." I remain dismayed at the ease with which scouters ignore the rules and everyone knows about it and looks away. Until this pilot there were no mixed gender dens, yet many units had them anyway. I know... leadership challenges, efficiency, made sense for families, scouts wanted it that way, etc. but rules are rules. Pretty hard to instill the scout law in scouts when we flagrantly disregard the first point of it. What kind of example is that for the youth? 

    The most violated rule in all of scouting is the charter org agreement.  From training to product sales, many charters are not following the agreement.  

    I think if units want to see councils crack down on rules, there are many rules not currently heavily enforced.  Just start reading all of G2SS.

    Personally, I do agree with you.  BSA should not have any rules they don't intend to fully enforce.  That would probably prevent them from writing unnecessary rules. 

    • Upvote 2
  6. 2 hours ago, yknot said:

    Realistically the only way to manage evolving youth gender issues is to have blended dens and troops. Otherwise units would practically have to maintain up to date  spreadsheets on their scouts orientation and identification preferences, which is not only intrusive and icky but can change and/or evolve within the year, sometimes multiple times. Some of the evolving youth identifications also no longer fit into clear cut boy/girl gender or orientation categories. If you are claiming to offer single gender dens and troops but an incident happens because a leader is not aware that a youth's situation has changed and made adjustments, it opens up a possible new level of liability for leaders, scouts, and BSA. There is also liability in trying to be any kind of gatekeeper, such as "You identified as boy at the beginning of the year, so according to BSA you are a boy on paper and belong in this troop until the year is done." There is also the volunteer issue with units not able to come up with the necessary volunteers to run gender segregated dens or troops. My preference would be to allow units all options -- single gender boy or girl or blended -- but I think liability and volunteer management issues will push scouting towards blended, or family, units soon. 

    I have one transgender youth in my Troop (who is life and is working towards her Eagle).  By having a very closely linked Troop, it has greatly simplified this change. 

    From my experience, gender  has a bigger impact on scouting than sexual orientation (which actually rarely if ever comes up).  Sexual orientation, to me, has no real impact on scouting.

    The issue with gender is shared tents, showers, separate units, etc.  Talking with scouts, full transgender is still actually pretty rare at schools; however, from what I have seen, the use of "they" is more common.  As a SM, what do we do with scouts that identify as "they"? 

    I am still a fan of allowing single gender units.  For example, if you are a boy only unit and one of your youth members comes out as "they" or a "she" then you can help them find another unit to work with.  Similar for an all girl unit.  That said, units who are willing, should be allowed to simply welcome all scouts (and not attempt to form several different Troops just to accommodate the different genders).

    I do expect that in 10 years or less, assuming BSA survives, units would have to apply to be single gender and default to all genders.

  7. Several councils have kicked off pilot programs for coed dens.  Feels a bit odd as many if not most coed packs I know of already operate this way.  
     

    Quote

     

    This pilot will allow the units designated as “family” Cub Scout packs that currently serve boys and girls in single gender dens the ability to form “family dens” with boys and girls together in the same den. This allows one more option for family packs to form dens that best meet the needs of the families they are serving. We realize many packs are already doing this, so here’s your chance to be official!


     

    https://colbsa.org/familyden/

  8. I'm not sure about Summit, but BSA pay for staffers is far less than other summer camps in my area. Talking with some, camps are paying around $800 per week for staff.   My daughter has gone to several camps and there appears to be no shortage. 

    BSA needs to learn about capitalism.... If you want staff, you need to pay.  These kids have options for summer jobs.  Now, that also means you probably make less profit from summer camps and likely need to charge more.  My BSA summer camp also had shortages of staff, the major impact was the riffle and shotgun ranges where they didn't really have much of an open shoot. 

  9. Bankruptcy Professor Melissa Jacoby just tweeted out thoughts as to why the BSA plan hasn't been approved.

    Quote

     

    Some have asked why it would take long time to issue #BoyScouts bankruptcy decision. No inside info, but a few (non-exclusive) factors: 
    1) Boy Scouts intentionally opted to file in forum particularly busy with chapter 11 cases, including mass tort cases. 

    2) If bankruptcy judge approves plan, #BoyScouts wants life-tenured district court to immediately review and "confirm" the confirmation of trial it did not oversee. Also appeals expected. Those courts will need *extensive* written findings of facts, conclusions of law. 

    3) case and scope of court order #BoyScouts and allies requested push many boundaries, to say the least. Far from an all-or-nothing ruling.

    4) some bankruptcy lawyers have illustrated no firm boundaries on how they might next use chapter 11. Even if not strictly precedential as a legal matter, decision will be broadly impactful given its boundary pushing. 

    5) None of this is meant to justify this bankruptcy. Only suggesting these these factors affect the timeline. 

     

    I found this to be a good summary that could explain.  As mentioned, perhaps the judge is being very careful to ensure district/appeals approves the plan AND no one takes this plan as precedential where it is not intended to be.  That plus the possibility where it is not an all-or-nothing could mean this is a very complex ruling that is just taking 3+ months.  In case, good to see an expert weigh in.

    • Thanks 1
    • Upvote 1
  10. 1 hour ago, 1980Scouter said:

    I agree with your comment that is almost has to have to do with Purdue.

    My question is can judges talk about similar cases to each other legally? What if she knew what the likely outcome of Purdue is and is waiting to be 100% sure before she rules.

    Everything I have seen where following the court she has been very professional and I am sure she realizes this case could end BSA depending on the outcome. 

    https://www.courthousenews.com/second-circuit-looks-askance-at-6-billion-oxycontin-settlement/

    There is this...

    Quote

     Federal appeals court judges appeared hesitant Friday to revive a settlement plan with drugmaker Purdue Pharma that would shield individual members of the wealthy Sackler family from all current and future civil lawsuits over their roles in promoting the opioid epidemic.

    Quote

    U.S. Circuit Judge Lee responded that the proposed Purdue settlement includes “a broader release than prior cases have really addressed.”

    Quote

     

    The Biden-appointed judge also pressed Purdue’s attorney on the heightened risk of abuse with this type of release. “In a situation like this, where the parties being released are the ones determining the contribution and kind of driving the plan,” she said, “that suggests concerns about abuse, or even in future cases, the idea that the parties getting the benefit of this release are determining how much they give, how essential it’s going to be to the plan.”

    Senior U.S. Circuit Judge Richard Wesley, a George W. Bush appointee, called some of that case law cited by Purdue’s appeal “kind of a flimsy ship” with which to steer their case.

     

    I don't think she can call up the judges ... but if she watched the hearing, perhaps she saw comments from Judge Lee and Judge Wesley and thought ... uh oh.

     

  11. On 7/19/2022 at 8:23 AM, SiouxRanger said:

    I find it difficult to accept the proposition that the Judge in the BSA case is awaiting a ruling on another case (unless the Judge is able to get inside information on the schedule of the release of that ruling).  For the BSA Judge to await the ruling in another case, essentially ties the schedule of the BSA case to the schedule of the other case.  And the BSA Judge has no control over the timing of the ruling on the other case.  So, if the BSA Judge is waiting on a ruling in the other case, the BSA Judge has surrendered control of the timing of the BSA case AND surrendered control over the issue of BSA's diminishing funds.  Judges don't like to surrender control-that is be "legally adrift."

    On 7/19/2022 at 4:57 AM, 1980Scouter said:

    Let this sink in.  Purdue Pharma, complex case, had confirmation hearings in mid/late August 2021.  Judge Drain did a 5+ hour ruling approving the plan September 1.  Days after the last hearing.  That plan was rejected by district December 16.  So, 3.5 months to get a ruling from the bankruptcy judge, have that plan then reviewed by district and rejected by district.

    The BSA plan is already at 3+ months post confirmation hearing and still no decision.  This seems very odd.  Perhaps a bankruptcy lawyer can explain how common it is for a judge to not rule for 3+ months after a confirmation hearing where other complex cases are able to go through both the judges ruling and district court review within that same time period.

    The only reason I have heard that may make sense is if she heard something during the Purdue appeals court hearing (back in April) that gave her pause.  There could be other reasons, but I haven't heard a good explanation.  She definitely doesn't want this plan to be rejected and if the appeals court either rejects or approves Purdue, she could use that language as guidance on the BSA plan.  That should help avoid loss at appeal.

    In any case, only she knows why it is taking this long.  Hopefully we hear an answer soon.  Claimants need to start the next steps of closure and BSA needs to implement their post bankruptcy plan.  

    • Upvote 1
  12. 3 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

    The y axis isn't at zero. So, it is going from 667k to 1011k. More like 52% growth. Huge, none the less. 

    Big issue is Cub Scouts.  I would love to know that number.  It recovered some post Covid, but I think we will struggle with numbers as the Covid dip starts hitting Troops.  

    667K seems incredibly low... 

     

    • Upvote 2
  13. 48 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

    I do not usually respond to your posts as I see them a coming from a perspective that is decades old and may not fit well in today's wold.  

     

    I have found my scouting history, Indian Lore MB, OA (with full regalia), attending Pow Wows has helped me develop a great respect of NA people and culture.  I have told my scouts the story of how my BSA experience led me to protest against our University mascot.  (I was ready and excited to see the "authentic" mascot, only to immediately see the costume used was not authentic to the tribes in our area and the "dance" was Hollywood from the 1930s).  While BSA isn't perfect, a lot of the regalia and dances are much more authentic than what is out in larger society and I think it built a health respect of NA culture.

    I would love to see BSA & OA strengthen partnerships with tribes.  I think it would be great for both.   Unfortunately, at least in discussions with my scouts, the die has been cast and they don't seem to see the regalia or ceremonies in the same light I did 30-35 years ago.  As I mentioned, they see it as a minstrel show.   I know we are a large country, so what I hear from my scouts likely differs from other Troops.  In the end, it is a good idea to ask lodges to work directly with local tribes ... I am just not convinced that will work throughout the country.

    • Upvote 1
  14. 3 hours ago, clivusmultrum said:

    As to regalia, each Lodge is supposed to get approval from the Native American tribes in the Council locality, and if they don't approve, the Lodge is supposed to cease using regalia.

    I am pretty sure that the Native American tribes in my area that were not eradicated were relocated to Oklahoma. Having no one to ask?

    The council call out I went to had no regalia.  Apparently a local tribe objected when asked.  They still put on a good ceremony. I personally liked what an older scouter said before we headed to the OA call out.  He emphasized cheerful service and that it was an honor to be elected to the OA.  That OA represents the best of scouting and those chosen for the honor should continue their cheerful service.  

    OA seems to be in serious trouble and I question it's long term viability.  Our council OA meetings are an hour away.  Our council camp doesn't have a Scouts BSA program and is over an hour away.  Building a service organization that does anything more than 1-2 events a year is tough as council camps are sold off and councils merge, expanding OA lodges across wide expanses of the state.

    Most of my scouts preferred OA call outs to not have regalia.  They seemed open to if if a tribe was partnered with the lodge ... but several compared prior (regalia based) OA callouts to minstrel shows.

    First ... I think OA needs to figure out the 1 lodge/council situation.  When we go to 80 councils (or there abouts) post bankruptcy ... 1 lodge/council doesn't work.  I almost think we should have a lodge per district.

    Second ... Perhaps OA isn't just or primarily dedicated to service of council camps.  That worked when councils have several camps, many of which within a short drive.  Council camps are being sold off left/right ... OA should broaden their service.

    Third ... If there is a tribe that works closely with the lodge, great.  Otherwise, figure out a non NA version of ceremonies.  Don't just copy the NA version without regalia.  Use it as an opportunity to use scouting history ... referencing great scouts of the past.  Dress in full Class A uniforms.  I could imagine some impressive ceremonies that are based on scouting history.

    Finally ... Make OA more visible during camporees and other council/district activities.  It seems like I only hear of OA during election & callouts.

    Hopefully OA adjusts.  They are a great organization, but have a lot of headwinds.  We will see...

  15. I would look at the omnibus hearings as just a monthly meeting in front of the judge.   It is on everyone's calendar so if an issue isn't urgent, it could be addressed in the omnibus hearing.  If there is nothing to cover, it can be cancelled.  If something is urgent, another hearing could be requested.   

    I don't take the schedule of omnibus hearings as indicating anything about the timing of the judge's ruling. 

    I think BSA can survive until October but they are running out of cash and need some amount just to handle payroll and legal fees if they go Ch 7.   At some point, they will run out of cash.  I think you will see signs, such as canceling Jambo, before they would announce Ch 7.  I haven't seen any concerning announcements yet. 

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