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Posts posted by Eagle1993

  1. Follow up article from Forbes...

    They are hiring more consultants and reviewing both financial and operational plans....


    “The organization’s financial state could be in peril should its insurance reserves not adequately resolve the litigation claims, the sources noted. In addition, BSA’s efforts to be more inclusive— by dropping the ‘Boy’ in its main program and welcoming girls and transgender scouts to join— has not resulted in a membership spike.”

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  2. 1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

    I mostly agree with BSA's direction, but I do cringe when I hear there will be a scoutbook for girls and another for boys.  Even if it's the same except pronouns, I know many scouters will be spending time to see if they are really the same.  There is just too much temptation to drift with different content.

    I’ve also heard there may be different info about hygiene for girls while camping, etc.

  3. 18 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

    If you want to grow, figure out what the top units are doing, then objectively determine what can and what cannot be replicated. 

    100% agree... one technique my teams use to get to root cause(s) of issues is the BOB and WOW method.   BOB simply stands for Best if Best and WOW is Worst of Worst.   Essential you study the difference between units that perform the best (high retention, consistent membership, active, etc.) and worst (high attrition, less active, etc.) and really deep dive to understand why.   Ideally, these units would be in the same district so regional differences can be eliminated.

    Then build this up District by District to see what changes need to occur with training, professional’s focus, etc.  The key would be to not change the overall mission and goal just to try and capture a few more head count. 

  4. 7 hours ago, ghjim said:

    SFE is now weighing in:



    The interviewer’s questions were odd.... it seemed like he had a clear opinion of scouting but no real experience in it (or even research of it).  SFE was actually defending BSA for much of the interview.  Are there really no experienced scouters in media that can actually write an in depth article or hold an coherent interview?  I only see poorly researched hatchet jobs or shallow and short quick reads.

  5. On 10/16/2018 at 1:35 PM, Eagle1993 said:

    Next up recharter.  It will be interesting to see if there is more attrition than in the past. 

    So, our final count hit 73, with 17 girls. 

    We had two girls drop, one due to sports and Irish dancing and the other as the girl who dropped was her only friend in the pack.  

    We had 22 boys drop.... one moved and most due to sports.  Looking at years past, the only major attrition increase was our Lion to Tiger Scouts. I do think we lost a lot of scouts due to a nice but poor den leader.... that was a lesson to watch new den leaders more closely in the future.

    Recruiting was a bit tougher this year as the school prevented us from emailing all parents.   We have done that in the past as the school does not allow us in their doors for recruiting, but now they told us to not email parents as well.  

    I asked my den leaders if any boys left due to girls, they said no.   Most of the ones that left rarely showed up to meetings anyway.  I know we can’t know for sure, but we saw nearly no loss of Bear or Webelos Scouts... only younger ones.  That seems to be consistent with years past, before girls.

    Our Pack is now functional a coed pack.  On paper we do talk about boy and girl dens, but in practice it appears coed.  We were not able to recruit enough leaders nor garner support from parents to split up Den meetings.  In some cases this is helping boy dens (the Tiger den is run by parents of the girls) and in some cases it helps the girl dens.  We tried the multiple age den meeting last spring, and we didn’t like the results.

    Not sure if I’ll add more to this thread.  Adding girls was a bit more work due to YPT rules, but seeing the results was worth it.  What worked for us will not work in all areas.  Unit leaders know their parents and youth more than the District, Council or Nationals.  I also know Cub Scout age youth may handle coed Scouting differently from older youth.  

    Overall, I think our Pack’s implantation was successful.  We have an active and growing pack that can serve all youth.

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  6. Just curious... what do you use your membership card for?  I have a note on my phone with my ID number, so have never used my card.  Just curious when you use your card.  For packs this makes sense as I think most kids/parents throw them out or lose them. 

    The certificates sit in a plastic file cabinet in my office.   I guess it is nice for historical purposes.... but again if this saves paper and cost (as most units probably won’t even print them out) it seems like it could be a good idea.


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  7. BSA just settled 19 suits in Idaho (LDS Troops).  Not sure if the Church settled as well.


    I found this comment to be interesting.... 

    “From what we understand the only way these [four new] settlements will work is if the Boy Scouts do not file for bankruptcy for at least 90 days,” Dumas said. “If they file within 90 days, these settlements may be at risk. We really do not know what will happen.”

  8. I can’t find any official statement, but based upon FB chatter from adults who had daughters in BSA photo shoots for the new handbook

    - the new female cut uniforms will be available in Scoutshops by Feb 1

    - there is virtually no change from the current uniform other than fit

    It sounds like they dumped the idea of a major uniform change that was floated earlier.  Again, not official but they did share some pictures that seemed to validate their story.


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  9. 40 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

    Out of some fairness to the BSA here.  This seems to be a generic problem facing any youth serving organization.  How do you make sure that your adult volunteers do not abuse youth?

    The BSA's error was that they had a list of known offenders yet were loose enough in vetting the new volunteers that they didn't catch the problems.

    Catholic Church, USA swimming, USA Gymnastics, US Soccer all have had issues.   Any group that deals with youth better have strong YPT training and background checks or face lawsuits.   

    This is not BSA unique.  For example, see this law that went into effect this year   


  10. 1 hour ago, Eaglein87 said:

    Not all CO's just the ones where the alleged SA took place. I would think that a prosecutor would go after National, and all those involved which would include Chartering Org especially if it was a church (deep pockets). When it happens (because it will) will not bode well for CO sponsorship of BSA Troops. Already hearing grumblings from CO's on this issue. Church members are wary of possible litigation that may Trickle down. We have a major problem folks.

    Yes, I have seen COs (only when churches) named as many times the individual, church, council and national are all being sued at once.  



    I’m sure more are coming 



  11. Stepping aside from the debate regarding the point of religion, I don’t see much upside for the BSA if the drop the faith requirement.  It is already extremely weak tea.  There is not a large new member group out there that would join (such as when they added girls) and I haven’t heard widespread loss of corporate sponsors or COs like I saw with excluding gays.   All that would happen is further controversy and loss of experienced members.  

    In my pack, which is essential tied to a public school, we tell parents to handle the duty to God requirements and let us know when they are complete.  Yes, I’m sure that there are a few kids and adults that are excluded and more that are uncomfortable with the religious aspects, but BSA needs some stability now and I don’t see this as something they should stir up anytime soon.  I don’t lose kids to g,g,g.... I lose kids due to band, soccer, hockey, friends and fortnite.

  12. 47 minutes ago, PACAN said:

    Wow...amazing how fast the councils are trying to separate themselves from National.  All the notices are almost identical as if "someone" had prepared a boilerplate for each council.  We hope National can get out of their mess but it's not our problem.

    I’m sure they are thinking FOS impact... and I don’t blame them.  People will not want to give to FOS if they think the money will simply to to Nationals and be part of a bankruptcy fund.  I was already asked by multiple parents if they should stop buying popcorn or contribute to FOS until after the bankruptcy....  Councils need to get their message out quickly or they will see major losses in donations.

  13. 7 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

    I think it'd be hard to sell too. It's in the middle of nowhere. People only come their because it's Philmont. People only work there for low pay because it's Philmont. Remove the property from being a BSA property, and it loses much of it's value. 

    The only thing it would be sold for is resource extraction, and that'd be a darn shame. 

    I hope Philmont would be safe given your comments.  But what about Sea Base?  I was really hoping to go there with my son in a few years.... but I could imagine that is prime real estate.  Hope that they can hold onto it.  

  14. It’s not the end of a National office if BSA does proceed with bankruptcy.  I think BSA could protect anything that generates net income and is critical to their continued existence... which I think would include the  HA camps they own; however, I’m not 100% sure on that and I’m concerned that a judge would decide if they have to sell Philmont.

    I’m also concerned for the employees.  It seems like typically the highest level employees (and highest paid) are rarely impacted as much as lower level (and in my view more critical) ones.  Pensions, benefits and salaries could be at risk... I hope any impact would be minimal.  

    My understanding is that this would force all lawsuits to stall and into settlement talks.  I would expect BSA would setup a victims fund similar to the Catholic Church.   I hope that fund is large enough to cause significant pain to BSA so they ensure our organization never Harbors those creeps again.  

    I believe this will also halt the damages aspect of the GSUSA lawsuit.   Perhaps that will force the two organizations to figure out how BSA can add girls without causing massive confusion with GSUSA.  

    Finally, I hope this would then be a new beginning.  BSA could look at using this to stop (or at least minimize) making decisions based solely on insurance actuaries and income.   They can put the threat of massive litigation and bad contracts behind them and hopefully restructure.... ensuring more funds remain local and keeping overhead down.  

    One can hope....

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  15. Assets at risk...

    1- Summit appears On National’s balance sheet as a major land asset at over $370M.  Other high Adventure bases (not specially listed) show up as $60M.

    2 - $800M of various financial assets 

    3 - $258M endowment


    Financial Condition-from annual report
    The National Council’s financial condition for 2018 and the next few years will depend, in large part, upon three factors. The first is the outcome of the litigation discussed within this report (see Note 9) and the impact to GLIP (Note 7). The second lies with the success of securing donations for the Summit project in order to continue to pay bond payments as scheduled and maintaining compliance with debt covenants. The third factor is the economy and legislation and their effect on market conditions and liquidity requirements. 

    Note 7 

    This is about their General insurance program.... 

    Note 9

    There continues to be additional lawsuits filed alleging sexual abuse, including claims for punitive damages. The National Council could be required to pay damages out of its own funds to the extent the claims are not covered by insurance or if the insurance carriers are unable or unwilling to honor the claims. Based upon the nature of and management’s understanding of the facts and circumstances that give rise to such actions and claims, management believes the reserves established by the General Liability Insurance Program of the National Council are sufficient to provide for the resolution of these lawsuits. However, in the event the General Liability Insurance Program or its reserves are insufficient to resolve such claims, it is the opinion of the National Council that the total amount of payments to resolve current and future claims could have a significant impact on the financial position or results of operations of the National Council in the future.

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    I am writing to you today in anticipation of news reports that will speculate about the BSA’s financial position. We have an important duty, and an incredible opportunity, to focus as an organization on keeping children safe, supported and protected, and preparing youth for their futures through our nation’s foremost program of character development and values-based leadership training. 

    To do so in perpetuity, we are working with experts to explore all options available to ensure that the local and national programming of the Boy Scout of America continues uninterrupted. We have a social and moral responsibility to fairly compensate victims who suffered abuse during their time in Scouting, and we also have an obligation to carry out our mission to serve youth, families and local communities through our programs.

    We care deeply about all victims of child sex abuse and we are steadfast in our belief that one incident of child abuse is one too many. We sincerely apologize to anyone who was harmed during their time in our programs. As you all know, we have always taken care of victims – we believe them, we believe in fairly compensating them and we have paid for unlimited counseling, by a provider of their choice, regardless of the amount of time that has passed since an instance of abuse. Throughout our history we have taken proactive steps to help victims heal and prevent future abuse. I want to stress that at no time in our history have we knowingly allowed a sexual predator to work with youth, and we always seek to act swiftly when alerted to abuse allegations. 

    Please know that these matters continue to have the full attention of the highest levels of our organization, and we will communicate transparently as there are developments or updates to share. I wanted to update you today due to the news speculation, and I want to assure you that our daily mission will continue and that there are no imminent actions or immediate decisions expected. 

    Thank you for your continued support of the Boy Scouts of America.
    Michael B. Surbaugh
    Chief Scout Executive
    Prepared. For Life.
    Image Image Image Image
    Boy Scouts of America
    1325 West Walnut Hill Lane Irving, TX 75038
    Copyright © 2018 Boy Scouts of America. All rights reserved.


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  17. There wasn’t much beyond the first paragraph.  This is one key

    “Filing for bankruptcy would put the brakes on the litigation and give the nonprofit the chance to negotiate with victims who have sued.”

    I think the GSUSA damages (if any) could be lumped in.  

    However, bankruptcy could lead to some ugly outcomes.   

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