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Posts posted by Eagle1993



    1 hour ago, RichardB said:

    Wait, a simple solution for 3-4 MM folks that works for unit, district, council and national events?   Not sure what those folks at National were thinking.   


    I wouldn’t consider it easy given the fact that both my Pack and Troop have to have an adult leader dedicated to chasing down these forms.  This could be a lot easier and GSUSA found a better way (at least in my area).  Parents who have kids in both organizations can quickly see one is superior in terms of renewing membership and collection of health forms. 

    I know it’s minor in the grand scheme of things, but would be nice to have our adult leader focused on scheduling another outdoor outing instead of running around collecting paper.  

    Again, the big benefit is that once you fill out the GSUSA online tool... you only need to make changes in future years... you don’t need to refill out the entire form.  Easy on the parents and leaders.


  2. 51 minutes ago, willray said:

    You might want to look at the frequency of reported data breaches for the electronic systems before you trust them too much.  And that's just the reported ones.  Living on the side of the fence that has access to those databases, and can watch who else has access and what they're doing, I can assure you that there are an order of magnitude more unreported breaches than reported ones.  

    I work in medical devices, been part of threat models, responded to ICS-CERT advisory’s, worked with white hat hackers and other aspects of cyber security.  I’m not an expert but know enough.  

    Most of not all of the info being collected is already in BSA or healthcare providers databases.  BSA already stores much info, including DOB and addresses electronically.  Your medical history is stored in multiple databases already.  Most people really interested in this data will be people who know you... paper will be easier for them to access than a BSA secure database.  

    As far as the comment ... GSUSA doesn’t do the same level of camping as BSA.  Ok, but these forms are required for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts who don’t do HA. Also, if you need paper, there should be an option for the leader to print out a report prior to leaving on a trip.

  3. 1 minute ago, Sentinel947 said:

    I'd rather them be on paper. Do you really trust the BSA to create a secure online portal for med info, given the state of other bsa web resources? 

    There are third party suppliers who already do this.  Vaccine records, medical history, your height and weight are already electronically stored in multiple areas... my state has an online vaccine record for all residents.  Yes, I trust it (if they use an existing supplier) and the info anyone could hack would have fall less value than 99% of my data that exists elsewhere. 

  4. Nearly every camp my son or daughter participate in have some sort of medical form.  BSA is the only one that is on paper sitting in some leader’s office.  They all have the same expectations of ensuring youth safety.  BSA is the only one who has been too cheap or incompetent to move this into the digital world and take some burden off of their unit leaders.

    The GSUSA forms are all online.  We filled them out last year, very easy and quick entry. This year we had to refresh our data and we didn’t have to start over.  The online form was available then to any camp or leader who needed our information.  

    BSA should have this info; however their collection, storage and distribution methods of the info are antiquated and result in additional burden on adult leaders.  

    For an organization that supposedly supports LNT we kill a lot of trees.

  5. The GSUSA is claiming that their brand will be negatively impacted and there will be confusion in the marketplace.  There is now a picture in an article that shows GSUSA members, in their uniform, holding Scouts BSA books.  We should be walking on egg shells around any discussion of GSUSA and be 100% clear that the programs are separate.  In addition, we should never compare the programs and simply emphasize the benefits of BSA.  The article is a mess in terms of the lawsuit.   I don’t blame the girls, the adult leaders should have been more careful.  BSA guidance has been clear and they violated multiple aspects of that document.

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  6. 7 hours ago, Treflienne said:


    has a great picture of Girl Scouts, wearing Girl Scout uniforms, holding their newly acquired Scouts BSA handbooks for girls.

    If I understand it correctly (and the article is a little confusing) a whole troop of girl scouts has joined the boy scouts.  They plan to finish up their GSUSA gold awards, and also work on Boy Scout ranks.



    Add this one to the lawsuit.  Their Scoutmaster should know better.  

  7. 5 hours ago, Terasec said:

    most public schools have similar policy, whether its promoting scouts or any other similar after school activity

    its not just your school, 

    also such policy is generally set by the district not the school,


    They allow promoting video games.   

  8. I think a lot a new cross overs are concerned about going to a week long summer camp.  My son goes to therapy for anxiety as well and will be going to summer camp.  I would first recommend talking with his counselor.  Any advice coming from us is not with the full background of knowledge of your son’s situation.  The counselor should be able to help.  

    1) My son will be going on a new scout camp out before summer camp.  Just 2 nights away then home.

    2) I’m working with my son prepping him for the swim test.  He’s close but not quite there.  If he doesn’t pass or doesn’t feel comfortable I told him sticking with beginner is fine.  

    3) I’ve let the leaders know he is anxious about the trip.  He isn’t medicated at all, but I thought they should know.

    4) I may go later in the week.  I really want him to build resilience.

    Each kid is different so it’s difficult to know what he can take.  My father was a scoutmaster for many years and he found that  most parents underestimate what their sons can handle.... but I know it’s a tough call. Again, I would highly recommend talking with his counselor to get their input.

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  9. Our district has 0 Venturing crews left.  I talked with the last leader of a crew and he said that they formed when a group of older boys and girls wanted to do more high adventure trips.   When they started to age out there was no natural progression from Troops to feed their numbers.  I brought up a discussion of ramping up a Venturing crew or two and there is some interest, but we don’t have enough volunteers for our current Troops or District already ... and that is a higher priority.

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  10. It would be great to see the regional breakdown.   Did councils who promoted girls and pushed hard on recruiting see growth or did they see backlash and net loss of members.  Did the councils who ignored girls or didn’t have a good roll out plan see limited losses?  No clue, but I know the girl numbers are not spread even across the country and council efforts varied.

  11. 30 minutes ago, malraux said:

    I think the counter point is that everything has been pushed younger, so if you wait, then sports or academic team or drama will have grabbed all the kids before then.

    Grade school activities have changed dramatically over the last 15-20 years.  In my Tiger den, half the youth are signed up for weekly ski lessons (in Wisconsin); most have at least 1 organized travel sport... some have two.  Add in a martial art and a musical instrument for a few.  Parents are already starting to cut activities by 2nd and 3rd grade.... they are not looking to add.  It would be interesting if there are successfull packs who only started recruiting in 2nd or 3rd grade.


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  12. The Chartered Organization agrees to:
    • Use Scouting to further the Chartered Organization’s aims and values for youth.
    • Chartered organizations must utilize the Scouting program to accomplish specific objectives related to one or more of the following:
    o Youth character development
    o Career skill development
    o Community service
    o Patriotism and military and veteran recognition

    o Faith-based youth ministry

    • Chartered organizations must not use the Scouting program to pursue any objectives related to political or social advocacy, including partisan politics, support or opposition to government action or controversial legal, political, or social issues or causes.


    The above comes from the annual CO agreement.  I would argue if the BSA wanted to stop church COs from proselytizing it would be documented here.  In fact, the BSA specifically mentions youth ministry as a specific objective.  

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  13. They apparently allowed other outside organizations in previous articles (such as a food bank).   They also allowed PG 13 and violent video games.  I told my son his next article should be an interview with the principal on the who, what, when, why on the ban... 

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  14. Just venting, but I am extremely disappointed in my son’s elementary school.  He is a member of the school newspaper and one of his “beats” is recommendations.   He wrote an article (unprompted by me) recommending Cub Scouts.  I saw the article, it was well written, talks about some of the outings we do.  The school pulled the article.  They told him he can not recommend outside groups.  Video games, fast food, movies... no issues, but they draw the line on Cub Scouts. 

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  15. Council executives (or at least some professionals in councils) have absolutely dismissed unit volunteers for non YPT related issues under the code of conduct. (Wear your uniform in a bar and see what happens.... even if you are not drinking alcohol or with scouts).

    I completely agree that the unit IH/COR/CC is the typical group (and correct group) to determine if any displine of a SM is required.  That said, I don’t buy that the lack of a YPT retaliation policy prevented the DE from acting. 

    There is no need to add additional rules in YPT.  If the DE really felt the volunteer needed to be dismissed, he could absolutely pursue it under the code of conduct harassed clause.   My belief is that he agreed that there was a YPT concern, the leader addressed it and the DE felt that was enough and the unit should handle the rest.  When the parent complained he said nothing I can do and pointed to a lack of policy so he wouldn’t have to defend his decision further.  


    If the DE wanted to dismiss this leader they could have. Retaliation is already not allowed... see file below. 



    He also could be dismissed if the DE felt he violated the code of conduct 


    I don’t see a need for more policies in the BSA.  The DE probably felt what the leader did was not enough to dismiss him and hid behind a lack of policy.  If he felt otherwise, I’m sure the DE could point to some existing policy and work with council to remove him.

  17. 22 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

    Emergency prep over Lifesaving

    • I'm always surprised Lifesaving is not chosen more.


    In my summer camp, Lifesaving was tough.  Recovering the 10 lb weight in water with 6” of visibility was tough.   I was a strong swimmer but took in a fair share of water coming up as our councilor would throw the weight in a different points to make us search (without vision) at the bottom of a muddy lake.   Most of the scouts I was with never succeeded.... on second those scouts probably just did it later in a pool.... Outside of that, it was fairly easy if you are a good swimmer.

  18. 9 hours ago, Cubmaster Pete said:

    community troop, few are members of the CO

    With this info, my answer would be no.  Once a year is enough payback to the CO.  The wooded area cleanup would be fair if they could schedule earlier.   More than this would burn up scout, parent and leader energy on a non core activity. 

  19. We do this for our CO, but it is once per year.  I think asking more, especially of a Cub Scout Pack, seems excessive; however, our relationship with our CO is 100% one sided.  You can probably find other ways to raise $1000 easier than 12 brat sales and if the check is the only true relationship you have (I.e. it’s not a church where most of the scouts are already members) then I would pass on the sales.

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  20. Transparency is key.  They should have smply let their current members unit know their strategy. This unit probably knew they were going to add girls before they took action (or at least were open to the idea), so they should have simply told their current members their strategy.  Polls aren’t required, but rechartering then suddenly announcing that the unit is adding a girls Troop will cause loss of trust.... that is very difficult to regain.

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