Eagle94-A1

Yes the MBC system is screwed up on a variety of levels. First and foremost is that MBC is a district/council POR with the MBC having the option to limit to a unit. Units should NOT be having folks in their system a Second if you had a working advancement committee, they should be the ones tacking down the MBCs, making sure they are registered, keeping accurate lists, etc It was only when my wife was adding a MB with council that she discovered she was not registered again. Also they are the ones that are the to make sure folks have the credentials to do the MB instead of anyone with a pulse. Third, BSA;s IT systems have a history of being useless. Look at all the problems currently going on. Add to the fact that some areas of the country do nothave reliable internet, and you got units who won't or cannot use BSA's systems.

@CynicalScouter Reviewed the power point. My comments are the following 1. Why is the goal 98% and not 100% since you cannot register without current YPT? 2. Are you not supposed to be notified when YPT via email is about to expire? That is what I have been told, although I have been told a lot about BSA's IT structure that I am still waiting on. When I teach the live YPT, I add my name to the list for renewal, so I do not know. Or does the 98% mean CURRENT YPT certification.? 3. Did not see in the slides where anything about "off the books volunteers." Where are you seeing that as I cannot find it? 4. What is the actual % of adults who never took YPT and are registered? What is the actual % of adults who have expired YPT? And what is the number of adults with current YPT that are not registered? Please do not think I am attacking you. Rather I want information. What I have been told and taught over the years is being contradicted, and i want the truth. I have had issues with the BSA saying one thing, and doing something else in the past. And it is getting frustrating.

Well, BSA use to promote "Hiking and Camping Troops" and getting into the outdoors every month. Now the minimum is 4 times a year plus summer camp. And for JTE purposes, lock ins at the CO, museum, indoor stadium, etc count towards camping.

That is a VERY good question. @CynicalScouter do you know how BSA keeps tracks of unregistered volunteers if they do not register?

Thank you. I will look at the info when I get off work. Regarding Could this be national's way of recognizing that volunteer's applications get lost, are delayed in processing, etc? I know I submitted an application for a POR in May one year, and it was not processed until August or September. A friend had his app submitted in August or September, and had to resubmit at recharter. And my wife submitted 6 applications with current YPT certificate over a 5 year period, and was never registered until I emailed everything saying this needed to stop. She had served as an AWDL, WDL, day camp staffer, and MBC, all the while she was not registered because the council lost the applications. I even hand delivered one of them, and they still lost it. And it was not as if she was never registered in the council. She was a member of the summer camp crew as an AA ten years prior. Sad thing is, she was "inelligble" for any of the lifesaving awards because she was unregistered, when she pulled a guy out of a lake when on a Webelos activity at a local park. And those who helped her once she got the guy on land did not want their applications forwarded since my wife did the hard stuff.

Could you please share this stat, it's source, and methodology used for creating it as it is impossible to be registered without YPT. I know volunteers who have not had their applications processed because they did not provide the YPT certificate. I also know of Scouters who were removed from charters because their YPT had lapsed, which is a completely different category IMHO.

My question is will the pros listen to and respect the volunteers? I know I am very pessimistic of late. But I was not always this way. I served on district and council committees. I helped organize and run district and council events. I did FOS presentations. I was a council Flavor Aid drinker for a long time. Then things changed in the council regarding the pros and their attitudes to the volunteers. A lot of folks quit their district and council posts altogether, and a few left Scouting altogether. Again the challenge is how will the volunteers treated? Will they be trusted to do things as they should be done, or be told exactly what and how to do things, and then removed if they do not do what the pros want? Or could the volunteers be tired of the pro's interference and mistreatment, and thus no one wants to support the task? Communication is vital.

I do not think you can assume this for every council. I have no idea who my YPT Chair nor who any of the other YPT trainers are except for the one I teach with since 2 are required to do the live course IF you can pry it from the SE's hands. This is very similar to our situation. Except we lost volunteers when they were yelled and cursed at by the pros.

This is what happens when folks in charge have no true experience in the program as a youth or volunteer,.

OH YEAH! and also a lot of other conservation uses, irregardless of the tinsel. @Greeneagle5, could your friend be cool to the idea because it will take a lot of planning and there is not enough time for it this year? Or maybe COVID is messing up things? I am quite surprised this is not happening already. I have seen those trees used for conservations projects on trails and int he waterways. Especially in swamp conservation projects.

Depends upon the skills being taught. First aid will be a big deal. Lifesaving and BSA Lifeguard will be major deal as you will not be able to do several of the requirements, and if they do not know those skills, it could kill them.

COMRADE! They do not have enough volunteers to be Unit Commissioners as it is. And the pros have been overworked and underpaid for as long as I can remember, and it is a heck of a lot worse now. Remember, DEs were suppose to visit the IHs every year as part of the Charter Agreement, and how often did it actually happen? Heck when my DFS found out I actually did one back in the day, I was told to stop because I had more important things to do. So I do not see this happening I think "Family Scouting" will be the end. Youth want independence and time to discover things on their own. But sadly I am seeing more and more parents and adults doing things for the Scouts instead of letting them do things for themselves. You can read about my family's experience with "Family Scouting" with the troop they left. And look at some of the questions being asked on the various FB groups. And when folks state that the Scouts need to deal with the issue and not the adults, the responder is villainized. I am thankful there are still a few of us "old fogeys" around who understand youth development, the need for independance, and letting the Scouts figure things out for themselves. We had a visitor at my troop last nite who was an Eagle from the 1990s, and his son is getting ready to Cross Over. he was not impressed with other troops he visited.

So none of your boys' dens have 2 female leaders running them? If that is the case OUTSTANDING! As for how folks are interpreting the YP standards, see @yknot's post above.

Thank you for proving my point that society in general, and now the BSA, does view men as abusers and evil because of the deeds of a few, yet the abuse that women do gets overlooked and does not affect all women. Do you really think the Scouts do not notice these things? They do observe, and do see the double standards. And yes some adults do talk to their kids about YP and why things cannot be done. And those Scouts who work day camp and summer camp do indeed get the YPT training as it is mandated in the NCAP.

My Thoughts. If the parents are trained and leave the Scouts alone, OK. If it turns into "Family Scouting" as I have experienced it. Scouting will slowly die. Scouts will lose interest fast. Or you will will see more of the extremely young Eagles who couldn't lead a Tiger Cub den on a short hike. who Eagle and leave. This can cause major problems. There is no way I can teach certain BSA required skills: First Aid MB and Lifesaving MB and Lifesaving BSA come immediately to mind. Scouts know the difference between " good touch bad touch." Showers and bathrooms are already the norm in many places. Individual tents will eb new. We have a hard enough time getting unit commissioners. While the lose of council camps will hurt in some areas, in others it may not. I know in some areas it is cheaper to camp at local, state, and national parks. As for summer camps, sadly they are turning into MB mills, and it seems that is what parents want. My only concern si will the professionals finally listen to the volunteers? Been happening for a long time. if it can cut the cost of registration, I am for it.

The double standard in youth protection, i.e. 2 female adults over 21 can take a bunch a males out camping, but 2 males over 21 cannot tale a bunch of females on any meeting or activity. Also 18-20 year old males no longer count as a 2nd adult for YP purposes.

Do not know who makes them now, but the ones from the 1990s/early 2000s were indeed Stetsons, just not marked with their logo. Stetson sells a nearly identical hat, just no holes for a chinstrap nor chinstrap. My Father In Law has one. His was slightly cheaper. Chinstrap has been helpful.

Sadly I knew one outstanding volunteer had their reputation destroyed and was kicked out of scouting for supposedly propositioning a Scout. Thankfully the criminal investigation found evidence to support her story that she found the "scout" being a peeping Tom while she was in the showers after hours. But the accusation was enough to destroy her her life.

Every single high school with a boys locker room and every single youth sports facility with a locker room is in trouble....

Yes it can be a pain in hot weather. Or backpacking. I got a boonie hat I wear on the water and backpacking.

One thing about 4-H, and least in my neck of the woods. 1) there is no registration costs, just costs for supplies and events and 2) You can do whatever interests you want under the 4-H umbrella as long as you have the volunteers to run that particular interest. HOWEVER once the volunteers are gone, that program ceases. Local 4-H has a multitude of programs: envirothon, electric club, shooting sports, leadership academy, ad nauseum. No fee vs $75 fee PLUS council fees ( $100 in my neck of the woods) I can see why 4-H is growing and BSA is not.

I am on my second one. First one I had for a year+ and it was stolen. Second one I have had for 21 years. Had to replace the leather strap, used paracord, and had to fix one small hole. I highly recommend it. It has survived hurricanes, snowstorms, ad nauseum over the years.

Does that work in your council? It has not in 2 of the councils I was in. One person yelled at by a pro was a member of the exec board. Nothing happened to the pro until COVID-19, about 18 to 24 months later.

OK, death threats are uncalled for, need to be investigated, and punished by the law. That is way over the line. Too far over the line. Obscene calls are also over the line. And need to be dealt with. As for abusive, it depend on the definition the pro is using. I had a SE state that publicly disagreeing with the council is abusive, and had the individual removed from Scouting. Whereas i have been yelled at and told I do not know what I was doing, etc by volunteers, but to told to grow a tougher skin by the same SE. The reason why folks are upset with national is that there is no transparency. Decision are made, and no one knows who is making them or why. When asked for input from volunteers, the results of that input are ignored, never posted, or responded with "double speak." Volunteers were ignored regarding Instapalms as 94% Against (18%) or Strongly Against (76%). The poll regarding membership changes by the members and volunteers has never been published AND a segment of the Scouting population, Western Region LDS members were excluded form those results. And look at the "double speak" of the Churchill Plan survey that national had to do because someone posted a slide. A lot of folks think Sea Scouts, OA, and Venturing are safe for the 18 to 20 year old members, when the "double speak: says they will continue talks on the matter. Further there are times when the national level volunteers making policies are overruled or uniformed of the decisions National has made or plan to make. Philmont being mortgaged but not informing the National Philmont Committee, nor the Trust about the mortgage is an example of National pros not being transparent with national volunteers. Another example is the National Sea Scout Commodore being completely taken off guard when the Churchill Plan was leaked. Not only should he have been informed, he should have been on the Churchill Committee. IMHO. Then there is the 411 Committee that redid the Cub Scout Program in June 2015. They were not informed prior to the December 2016 Cub Scout program changes. Volunteers are upset and angry at they way they are being treated by councils and by national. You have volunteers who will do anything in their power to help Scouts and units, but will do absolutely nothing for council, let alone National because of the treatment they have experienced.

My Responses will be in red Do you really believe that national has little input into the councils? National narrows down the choices a council has for SE and DFS that a Council Executive Board (CEB) chooses. National provides the growth opportunities for the professionals. National provides the training that professionals take. National sets the goals professionals need to meet. National [provides the recognition professionals get. As for executive boards and committees, why is it that SE's push "yes men" into those postions, and encourage DE's to push "yes men" into district roles instead of the best qualified? Why is it that when things do not go the way the council professionals want because the volunteers oppose the decision, national intervenes by threatening to revoke the council charter unless the pros get their way, i.e. Chicago and the camp sale a number of years ago? If that is the case, why wasn't the National Philmont Committee informed of the Philmont mortgage until several months after the fact? Why did members resign in protest? Why was the Trust not informed of the mortage and is now involved in the lbankruptcy? Why was the 411 Committee on Cub Scouts, the ones whos pent years working on the June 2015 program, not advised about the December 2016 Program changes? If policies and decisions are made by volunteers, why are the volutneers not being informed? From some of the decision national has made, this does not seem to be true. Unless the NEB is hiding things? There is no doubt that volunteers care at both the local and national levels. But I have seen volunteers manipulated on the local level, and that example must be coming from somewhere?. I have also seen volunteers forced out of positions at the local level because there have disagreements with professionals. That too has to come from somewhere? I have seen at both the local and national levels professionals overrule the decisions of volunteers,. And I have seen local and national volunteers resign in disgust over decisions of the local and national council. Instapalms, 411, and Churchill Plan, are some of the examples I can give of professionals ignoring the volunteers. Sadly this is not just a local issue. You may not be seeing it at this time in your council, but that can change with the next SE.