Eagle94-A1

Backpacking easily comes to mind. Cheaper to do your own than go to Philmont. Canoeing too. I know I did a 64 mile canoe trip in the Canadian wilderness for significantly lower price than going to Sommers HA base.

in 2020, my troop did their own summer camp due to COVID. It was a major undertaking, especially since we had less than 3 months to plan it AND we did not know if the camp would be open or not. Pros= Cheap, Local, focused, flexible. Cheap as in the cost to camp was about $70/person. Local as in within 30 minute drive and we had committee show up to do BORs. Focused in that the Scouts who needed to do T-2-1 requirements were able to do them that week. Flexible in that we made our own schedule, adapted it to weather conditions, i.e. moving the Wilderness Survival nite to a nite it would not storm, etc. Cons= no showers, VERY limited MB offerings, and local. No showers were a big turn off to the Scouts the improvised showers we created did not work. The biggest turn off for the older Scouts was the limited number of MBs They only earned one, if they had not already gotten it. and got a bunch of partials. A lot of the Scouts view summer camp as MB school. Local was also a con because it was a camp we always got to. They wanted someplace fresh. But COVID put a major damper on things.

Thank you. I want a copy.

Had several meetings this week about what is going on in Scouting. . Apparently I am spreading rumors since I keep up with the bankruptcy , state what is being told in court (via this site and others), and ask questions that the PTB either do not want to answer, or do not know the answer because they are not informed. I asked about council mergers since BSA plans to downsize the number. Answer is council mergers wont be happening if goals are met. I asked about why we are investing in a camp, when the merger possibility exists and the camp will get sold. Told again no mergers are going to happen if goals are met. Asked about when the changes to YPT will occur, and was told I am spreading rumors. Sad thing is I find out more here and on other sites, than I do from my council.

My understanding is the 72 hour rule, i.e. no registration needed for adults if the activity is under 72 hours, will be going away for Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing. It will remain for Cub Scouts.

You are joking that it came up, right?

This is GREAT ADVICE! (emphasis) Scouts BSA is NOT about what you want, but what the Scouts want. I was involved in a troop, and some new, well intentioned, but untrained, started taking over the troop. They wanted a continuation of Cub Scouts. As my frustration with them and the situation increased, I backed away because IT WAS NOT ABOUT ME BUT MY KIDS (caps for emphasis). As long as my sons were having fun, I was fine. It was when they started having issues with the new adults, and they were no longer having fun, that the decision to leave was made.

i have seen worse. I have seen Elangomats talk, eat and drink both in front of candidates and away from candidates, sleep under tarps, and sleep back in camp away from the candidates. I was taught an Elangomat redoes the entire Ordeal.

You do realize that Webelos can Cross Over as early as December? That would be a problem in our area.

I know things happen with staff. I have been asked teach classes at summer camp. Also some courses ask you to supplement the staff, i.e. BSA Lifeguard. But I have not been to a summer camp that has charged full price for adults. Every camp I have been to or worked at had 2 adults free, and some type of formula for extra adults. And the fee for the extra adults has never been the same price as the Scouts. As for charging the Scouts extra to cover adult costs, i have families that can barely cover the cost for their Scouts. In fact i have 2 Scouts not go to camp this year, because they could not raise the money within 5 weeks of joining.

If a Scout or Scouter cannot properly undergo the tests of the Ordeal, are they truly worthy to join the Order? If the tests really do not mean anything, why bother having them, and let everyone join the OA? As for "hazing," that is a direct quote from the LA when i asked why we do not send the folks who are not undergoing the tests to leave.

I remember when you could be told to leave the Ordeal if you were not following directions. Now it is considered "hazing" if you tell them to leave. That blew my mind when I first was told this. Sadly I have seen folks talking the entire time, and when asked if they think they deserve to be members, said yes. I have seen an adult be placed in a work party of one, because he was extremely negative, would not stop talking or complaining, and it was affecting the rest of the work party. He got in. Worse was I saw an entire work part stop and refuse to do another thing. Again when I asked why we don't send them home, I was told it would be considered "hazing," and they have to make the decision. IMHO, if they do not follow the rules, they made their decision. Sadly national disagrees.

I been in 5 councils, 6 including the national council, and worked in 2, as well as for national supply. I have volunteered on the council level, and have friends who have volunteered on the regional and national levels. I stand by what I said. And how many here discuss issues like the above that are done on the council level?

I may need to tell my troop Summit is off the list. That is one camp someone wanted to look into.

Did 2 adults get in for free? Camp we went to did that, and extra adults are 1/2 price of the Scouts.

WOW. I have not attended a camp that charged full price for adults, although I know about 1 of them.

@fred johnson, Please note I was commenting on this statement. And I stand by what I say.

Do you honestly believe that volunteers are not handpicked? Do you honestly believe that professionals will not get "Yes men" on those committees? Do you honestly believe that if the volunteers go against the professionals, they will either be removed or ignored? Anyone remember the Chicago Area Council incident a few years back? Anyone remember the 411 Cub Scout Committee June 2015 to December 2016 program? Anyone remember Philmont being mortgaged without the volunteers learning about it after the fact? And these are a few items on the national level. Yep Chicago became a national issue when they intervened to overrule the council executive board members.

Respectfully disagree. Once upon a time, the OA had election quotas, i.e. you could only vote fro X number out of Y eligible. Now there is no limit to the number you can vote for. SMs had to meet the same criteria as other adults, i.e. have 15 days of camping, be nominated by troop committee, and be selected by lodge committee. Now SMs automatically get in. Time between Ordeal Member and Brotherhood member use to be 10 months, now it is 6 months. And Scouts use to be able to have their name withheld from teh ballot if they were not interested, now they automatically get put on it, even if they stated publicly they have no interest.

Lot of Natives are in the military. Could work with them. I know I had a one stationed at an local AFB sit in one of my classes to see what was expected so they could teach the MB.

1. Welcome. 2. I still wear my 1990s uniform as they are better built and much more comfortable than today's uniforms.

Either the councils are being kept in the dark by national with everything going on, the councils are ignorant of what is going on, the councils have their heads in the sand, or the councils to do not want to pass along the bad news to volunteers thinking it will cause a death spiral.

I know the two Scout Association camps I worked at in the UK were open to non-Scout groups. We had school groups from the UK, Belgium, and Germany use the camps. And of course we had Scouts from all over using them.

Not a lawyer, but my understanding is that if BSA made those records public, WITHOUT A COURT ORDER (emphasis), they would be held for libel.

Correct. They were placed in the IVF and never removed. The sheriff's department doing the investigation found enough evidence to show that the "scout" was being a peeping Tom after hours at the adult showers during the designated time for ladies, which was after lights out. This "scout" had a history of sneaking out after hours and lying to avoid trouble.