Eagle94-A1

Long, Rough nite. SPL opened the meeting, a few anoucnements given, then the told to prep menus and duties roster for camporee The patrols split off. Instead of the discussing the issues, a bunch different conversations broke out. No working on the matter. Little frustrated When the patrols came back, they were asked if they completed the task of menu, food list, and duty roster. NSP didn't finish the any of the task. SPL was going to give them until Monday to come up with a menu and price, when one ASM stepped in and said since they could not do their task in the time allowed, and since they had so many issues with KP, that he would do the menu, duty roster, and shopping list for them, and that they can wake up when he does and start breakfast and KP, and he wakes up at 4AM. I'm not going to make a scene in front of the scouts But one of the other leaders is ticked. So ticked he asked for the camporee payment back because his son is not going to camporee because he and the patrol is being set up for failure. Instead the son will be joining dad on a recon of the trail we are now doing in May. Since the adults were not meeting, I need to calm down, and one of the Scouts needs a book I have, I drive home to get it. Come back the adult decided to meet after all. They agree that multiple adults giving conflicting directions is a problem. Adults are to go through SM. GREAT I"M GOOD WITH THAT. But I mention how the leaders don't have any real authority and in the case of the NSP, the TG is ignored by the rest of the patrol. I suggested that we give the PLC and select others the power to sign off advancement. Leader who did the menuy and duty roster said HECK NO THEY AREN'T READY, they don't know their stuff. name two scouts who effectively taught a class, and I mentioned how the wilderness survival and backpacking classes that were done. "Those aren't basic skills, how many can do their knots" was the answer. Right now it's one and done" And I replied, "That's because we are not letting them use those skills on a regular basis by letting them teach. In medicine it 'see one, do one, teach one." and we need to let them start teaching. As you can imagine it was getting really heated. Believe it or not, it was the new crossover leader who calmed things down. He said he doesn't know if he's ready for Scouts to sign off on rank yet, or if he will ever ( I can respect that he's new and hasn't seen it in action), but maybe we should assign an ASM to each patrol to work directly with the PLs and get them up to speed, and maybe have them sign advancement in the near future. I warned about Webelos III, and he admits that's an issue we ALL need ro be wary of and recognize it int the others, AND TAKE ACTION when needed. It's a compromise and he suggested we meet separately from a meeting nit eto discuss this prior to the patrols being reoganized to get ourselves organized. I can live with it. And I hope it works On a diffeerent note, I've been talking to the wife about all this. She told me point blank that she is "uncomfortable sending MY scouts to Troop XYZ until the adults get their act together." She's taking ownership of her Scouts and looking after their best interests.

Some said adult led is used because it's the only way adults know. I say's its because the adults don't have the patience to do it right. I say it's because the adults do not want to do the difficult work involved in training their Scouts, trusting their Scouts, and letting them lead. For those following my posts, yes it wa a rough nite.

Problem we had with the S 'biner was a specific type of bear hang. I think it's the PCT method the Scouts were taught that day (old school method I was taught had no problem, but even Philmont has changed to a double line method). The method includes a stick and a carabiner. S'biner will have the rope slip into the bottom half, and locks it in place so it cannot come down at all. Back on topic. Because I'm ADD (SQUIRRELL ) I came up with an outline to for me to use when talking to the other adults. Feels like Cub Scouts at times at meetings. When being corrected, after one adults talks, the rest are just repeating what the first one said, wasting time to get what needs to be done, done. It undermines Scout’s authority and responsibility Some Scouts don’t listen to the older Scouts as a result. Some Scouts don’t worry about details because the adults will intervene and do it for them. Scouts will not ask their PLs or SPL, but go directly to adults. They cannot learn for themselves with adults interfering. Some other Scouts feel that the adults do not trust them/respect them to get do what they are supposed to on their own. Why bother trying? OBSERVATION: Meeting room is loud and distracting, adults adding to it. Interference on camp outs is a problem. They get conflicting directions from different adults. If a Scout tells them to do something, and an adult tell them something different, they will automatically do what the adult wants without explaining to the adult why they are doing what they are doing or supposed to be doing. An example would be NSP and KP this Sunday. Repeat of undermining authority and responsibility above. Some Scouts feel they are being blamed for things they are not responsible for. OBSERVATION: Kids these days are so use to adults telling them exactly what to do, when to do it, and how to do it, that they cannot think for themselves. And they will listen to adults over other kids any day. Example Older Scout Patrol and KP. Recommendations Only two adults in the meeting room: SM and 1 other. Scouts want Mr. _____ or Mr. ____ ( and no they don't want me 'cause I talk too much ) Others will be invited to teach classes or make announcements as needed. Adults to interact with the SPL on the camp outs. Limits the conflicting directions. Allows the PLC more authority and responsibility. Give the PLC and a few other Scouts the authority and responsibility to grow themselves and the troop. Have more PLC meetings, preferably monthly. Adults go through the SPL to make suggestions and recommendations to improve. Always have the youth running stuff and having ownership. Older Scouts were ticked off with the new patrol set ups UNTIL they learned the PLC decided on a completely random method of selection and not adult appointed. Youth teaching as much as possible. Get PLC members and select others the ability to sign off on Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class advancement. Shows trust to the older Scouts. Gives responsibility to the older Scouts Shows younger Scouts that the PLC is in charge and need to be listened to Can inspire and motivate Scouts to advance. Improves discipline Keeps older Scouts’ skills up to speed and even improve, with continued practice. Any other suggestions?

Update from the weekend. Friday was a mix of adult led/ learn from your mistakes. We have some folks going backpacking. First shakedown and it was an expereince for all, including me. Long story short, unless you asked for advice and help, you didn't get it. However the person to ask help from was me and the other adult, more so the other adult, becasue we were the ones with experience. He did a class on collecting water and filtration. But again it was learning from your mistakes. One thing Iearned was don't use an S 'biner for your bear bag unless you got a Chevy Suburban to climb on Saturday evening after the rest of the troop showed up got interesting. One leader refused to leave the NSP alone until "someone who has cooked on coals and a grill supervises them" showed up.n Thankfully their troop guide has done that, and I asked him to keep an eye on them to get the other leader away. IT WORKED! had some issues with KP, but overall OK. Sunday however was horrible. Long story short it took 3+ hours for the NSP and older Scout patrol to do KP. Why did it take so long? IMHO adult interference. Older Scout patrol was finished with KP, when they saw that the adults had some left overs. We made a deal, they could have some if they wash the knife, spoon, and spatula "after the [NSP] is finished with KP so you don't have to start another batch of water." That was adult interference #1 Some of the new scouts were having challenges getting their gear packed before breakfast. One in particular was not finished in a timely manner that his dad, who is a leader in the troop, thought, and dad told him "AFTER BREAKFAST PACK YOU BAG AND TAKE DOWN YOUR TENT!" (caps in this case is shouting). This kid had KP duty, BUT dutifully followed dad/ ASM's instructions. I am going to assume that his KP buddy, who was in the same tent and same situation, heard ASM's instructions, and when he finished eating, went to take care of his gear and the tent. Guess what didn't get done until until after the gear was packed, tent dried and packed, and water was cold. Eventually it was realized by other adults that the KP wasn't getting done, so other adults get involved.It was not a good thing. Lots of "scolding" especially by a new ASM just crossed over from Webelos, who has caused some issues with allof the patrols, but especially the older Scouts, who now despise him. Does the new ASM have some valid points, yes. BUT he's going about it as if they were Cub Scouts. At some point later, I ask the older scouts what happened with KP. The comment was, " I was told to do it after the [NSP] so iwas waiting for them to finish, before doing it." adult interference #2, giving them specific instructions and not letting htem think for themselves." Adult Mistake #3 is something that occurred to me last nite/ early this morning. The Scouts know they are suppose to do KP immediately after a meal. But when any adult, but especially their dad, tell them to do something, they will forget everything else, not try to talk to the adult about what they are suppose to be doing, i.e. eating brakfast, doing KP, etc, but immediately do whatthe aduolt tells them. I honestly believe that If I hadn't asked if the Scout had breakfast yet, he would not have had any. The youth in various patrols have commented on adult interference and contradictory instructions, and told some of use they only want 1 adult interacting with them, and it isn't the SM. It's going to be an interesting leader's meeting tonite, because some of the adults are not happy that the Scouts want us out of their hair. Me personally I want to sit back and drink my coffee saying, "Ask your PL."

I knew a certified lifeguard instructor waiting to take his swim test at summer camp who made a rescue at Scout camp. He was not on duty as a lifeguard, but was the first to see the Scout in trouble and respond. Long story short, SM asking about the process was told by the CD that because the rescuer was a professional, it didn't count, even if not in a paid position. That's why I'm asking.

Borrow a friend's pack, or rent one from REI. Military surplus is good. Joke in my troop growing up: Military surplus, if it's designed to survive combat, it may survive Scouts. And yes, I own a medium ALICE That I used for 2 fifty milers afloat, numerous camp outs, 2 years of high school, and 5 years of undergrad. She's had some surgery, both needed and cosmetic ( turned mine into a HELLCAT ALICE), but she is still around. But with the advances in technology, I'm looking towards a USMC FILBE. I also have an old Camp Trails' Wind River. In fct just used ti this weekend to prep for a trip later on.

I'm back from camping. I added the clarificatio to state it wasn't a scout who died. Talked to the CM and he wants to nominate the. Told the ACM involved, and is a little embarresed about it, didn't think she and the. other doctor did a big deal, but definately agrees wife needs to be put in. She is fillling out the paperwork. for my wife. I am somewhat hesittant to get witnezs statements from the Cubs, especially my youngest. He was affected by the situaation when we got home and the next day, and has had a few nightmares about it. ASM with the police stated a police report was filed by a guy who was there. Since it's a public record, and he saw everything, i am going to try and get that for the CM to fill out. Since I'm the ‘‘paperwork guru'' he wants my help with the paperwork. On a different note, I use the IMPERIAL MARCH or STAYING ALIVE, but not ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST:-) Never heard the HIP DON'T LIE song before, going to have to look it up.

Clarification, not a scout or a youth. It was an older gentleman. He had cardiac surgery previously because the docs noticed the scar from the previous surgery. Apparently the gentleman had a heart attack while fishing, and collapsed into the lake.

What is it with my family and water? All joking aside, I need some advice, especially from folks who have been involved in the process. Long story short, middle son's Webelos den is at a local park doing Ultimate. Once they were finished, he sees something in the lake at the park. At first they think it's a dead animal, then my wife see the tennis shoes. She jumps in, swims to the body, and pulls it to shore. She begins CPR but then stops because the DL and ACM are both doctors and take over doing CPR until EMS arrives. EMS was able to shock him and airlift him to a hospital, but he passed away a few days later according to the obituary. Several folks say put her and the other leaders in for the Medal of Merit. But looking at the paperwork this line stands out: "2. Lifesaving or meritorious actions performed as part of the lineof duty of a trained lifesaver-i.e. doctor, nurse, lifeguard, first responder- will not be considered." So should the nominations for the two doctors even be attempted. It didn't happen in their practice or on the job? Thanks in advance.

My thoughts 1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2) What does your son think; what does he want to do? His scouting career, HE needs to make the decision. 3) If the SM and other leaders are as entrenched as they are, if their attitude is "my way or the highway," then no matter what you or others say, no matter what amount of training they receive, no matter what amount of coaching they get from others. it will go in one ear and out the other. You and the others WILL get frustrated, angry, and want to quit. Find another venue to support your son if he decides to remain. Trust me. I've dealt with an SM like that for several years now. Won't listen to his Scouts, his trainers, his UC, NO ONE. But unlike your son's troop, instead of continuing to grow, that troop is loosing Scouts. I'm going to relate my oldest son's story on how he chose a troop. The troop that the pack's CO charters is the challenging one above. After one camp out with him, he commented "The adults do everything," and decided to look elsewhere. In the next campsite was a much smaller troop, but IMHO the best troop in the district. They were an established troop using the patrol method and it showed. When we visted them on a meeting night, the youth for the most part were running the show. I say for the most part because they did have a "guest speaker," to go over in detail the section of the AT the older Scouts were doing in a month. The Speaker was a college aged ASM who did the section with the troop previously. The ones that were not going on the AT were working under one of the older Scouts who was not doing the AT. Long story short WELL RUN, YOUTH LED AND ORGANIZED TROOP. They did have some advantages in that there was a cadre of older Scouts, as well as ASMs who grew up in the troop still involved and passing on their knowledge. Unfortunately the troop went Trail's Life. Visited another troop and it was chaos and anarchy. SPL had a family emergency last minute, ASPL was on vacation and an unprepared PL took over the meeting and ad libbed it. If I was a brand new, off the street parent who didn't know better, there would be no way in Hades I would let my son go to the troop. But knowing how the patrol method can be "organized chaos," seeing how the PL took over as best as he could, seeing how the troop adapted to the situation, well I knew a troop that had potential. He went there, and has been happy overall since. Now is that troop perfect, heck no. You should read some of my posts about the issues we are having, essentially growing too fast ( troop tripled in size in a 2 year period), and getting adults to let go. It messy, it's chaotic. BUT IT WORKS! The Scout learn a lot more out of it. My son was elected PL as a 10 year old new Scout, SPL as an 11 year old Tenderfoot, and is currently a TG as a 12 year old First Class Scout. has it been pretty or easy for him, not at all. he took a break form leadership between being SPL and TG, and plans on taking another when his tour as TG is over at the end of the month, because IT IS WORK. But he has learned so much. And considering he is helping to rebuild a troop, he's done more in leadership than I ever did, because I had older Scouts to mentor and advise me. He's stuck with doing it on his own and asking this old fogey. So just because a troop is chaotic, doesn't mean it's a bad one, IF they are trying to do the right thing: USE THE PATROL METHOD!

This discussion reminds me of how one troop I encountered handled the annual planning conference and changing of PLCs. Only adult involvement was them picking up the tab. Scottish troop did the troop elections and annual planning during their summer camp. I want to say they spent an entire day doing this. After that, the outgoing and incoming PLCs dressed in full kit, and had a formal dinner.

Interesting. I admit I've skipped over the "how to do program planning" portion of the troop program features, and always go straight to the different plans. The process listed in the link is very similar to the one in the Troop Program features, and to quote the Second Doctor, "You changed it. HHMMM I don't like it." My question is this: who the heck wrote this information? was it anyoen with real experience in Scouting as a youth, or some "expert" who used research to come up with garbage? Sorry, i'm going to stick with the way I was taught way back in the day at Troop Leader Training ( or whatever the heck it was called), and Brownsea 22, and what I taught at JLTC. Adult creep indeed!

It's cool how the patrol neckers are done, but I admit I like the idea of one color neckerchief for everyone int e troop. Part of that stems from the way my troop did things. When we were invested in the troop, we received the troop necker, totem, and woggle. If we switched patrols, we didn't need a new necker. Grant you folks rarely changed patrols. I think I changed the most out of my friends, 3 times. Then there is another reason why I would not want to change neckers, I liked having Green Bar Bill's signature prominently displayed above the troop patch on the necker. With all do respect, I think Green Bar Bill's signature trumps the different patrol borders Just wished I would have used someone else's necker for first aid purposes instead of the autographed one.

When I was a DE, it was strongly frowned upon. In fact my boss didn't want me to have dealings with the pack my service organization started up, out side of that of a DE. In all honesty, He will want the away from Scouting time, and if he is married, he will want some family time as too many of my coworkers or friends either got divorced as a result of the job, or were threatened with one due to the job. My wife of 2 months, who dated me while I was a DE, gave me a choice between her or the job. Best decision I made

That' something from my troop growing up. Rationale behind it was the badge represents what you have mastered, so you should be able to teach it. Hence the Up to your rank. I know that back in the day, and even today when helping out, it's easier to pick who has the rank or merit badge that the skill covvers to teach it, than looking over advancement records. Although in one case, there was the Scout or Tenderfoot who was teaching intro to backpacking If I remember the G2A correctly, officially it is the decision of the SM on who gets to sign off on rank. Again my troop growing up, the SM allowed PLs and Leadership Corps members to sign off the lower ranks. Again in my troop, adults signed off on S-L-E. Regarding the MB requirements, it was the individual MBCs who signed on the line. SM signed off on the leadership, time in grade, etc. usually done in the SMC. We did it a little differently. PLs did specific parts, i.e. Sammy Secondclass, PL of the Ravens would give out Tenderfoot, Simon Secondclass, PL of the Hawks, would give out Second Class. Freddy Firstclass, Eagle PL, would give out First Class. etc. On a tangent, I am hoping, stress HOPING, one award has been approved by national and the paperwork is back. Would love to have that handed out at the COH. Don't know if the Scout who started the incident should give the award, or me, victim #2, should give it to him.

My troop did ceremonies,and the had some meaning and were special. Talking to some of the guys today parts of it are still remembered, especially our Investiture ceremony. But yes, it seems as if ceremonies are not a big deal. As for the PLCs, I'd say both. SPL realizes that he needs to do something besides texts and emails. But we only meet 2-3 times a year as a PLC, just after the election and training. That's it.

So very true. Troop that is slowly falling apart that I've mentioned in other posts had that happen. The old SM, just before stepping down, sent 2 Scouts to NYLT, to take the troop to the next level. When the new SM took over, some of the things the NLYT grads were trying to implement were overruled and ignored by the new SM. Long story short, both NYLT grads transferred to another troop in our town that had 3 folks in NYLT that year. That troop also happens to be the best run troop in the district IMHO.

Definately ask the PL or SPL. Up date on my troop's neckerchief. Locally we cannot get neckers anymore from national unless we special order them. So when we got a new Scout in December, the SM was able to obtain one of the smaller red neckers. So we now have 3 differents issued by the troop in use: an all green properly sized, green and red CS sized, and all red CS sized. The December incident gave the troop the push it needed to make a decision on the neckerchiefs. PLC after doing some research decided to go with olive drab USGI triangle bandages with an emboridered border for contrast since one of the grandmothers has an embroidery machine at the house that she can use, as well as one of the ASMs and I want to say one of the grandsons. Instead of silkscreening, they wanted a patch instead. So we went through SageVenture http://www.sageventure.com/store/and got custom unit number and city/state in green with a tan background ( I wanted red, but I don't have a say in it ) and we will be issuing them at the upcoming court of honor. We have a camporee where uniform inspection is part of the competition

I pecked a list a while back when I was out with the shoulder I mentioned some of it, not all of it, at the PLC/ planning meeting back in December, but didn't do the entire list. Part of the challenge for me is not stepping on folk's toes. Yes, I've been with the troop 2 years, but it's been as a committee member and as I could make it. Traditions, location of equipment throughout the church faciltiy, how the weekly ops of the troop, etc I'm still learning. Plus I do not want to step on anyone's toes, especially the SM's. I've tried to talk to the SPL, and do so when I can. The problem is the NSP. Since I am the NSP ASM, I've spent more time with them and trying to keep the other adults off their backs than I can talking to SPL. One other item I would like to do is send a few youth to NYLT. I have not read the syllabus, let alone staffed it, but if it is even 1/2 as good as the old JLTC and BA22 courses I staffed and participated from, than it is something that these guys need. Funny thing about that is youngest son's den chief, soon to be ADL. I've worked with the DC extensively in the OA and he staffed Cub Scout day camp for me. he's a NYLT grad and was SPL last year, and is a great Scout. Anyway he visited the troop after the pack meeting, becasue he needed to give our new Scout his AOL plaque that came in for him. He noted the issues and not only promoted NYLT but made the comment, " ... and once they come back from NYLT, the adults needs to let them follow through, otherwise it will eb a waste of everyone's time and money," I've seen first hand what happens when you get gung ho folks coming back from JLTC and BA22, but the adults don't want to change.

back. I mentioned Want to clarify why I feel like I'm on a balancing act. I want change, I want to make it more meaningful. I think having them do more would help improve. Build esprit de corps and develope a sense of spirit. I want to hand a bunch a scripts to the SPl and say pcik one. But asking my son about it, i.e. improving COHs with ceremonies he tells me "advancement isn't really important, "everyone gets it, no one fails," "it's not a big deal"." and "Earning ranks is more ha.ha fun than serious.". So he doesn't think it would matter. BUT the only ceremonies he's seen are Cub Scout ones. More ideas to improve the troop. 3) More PLCs. The PLs and other youth running the meetings need to get together more often and prepare. Very haphazard 4) This is one that I want so badly, and now that we got several First Class Scouts or higher, and are going to mixed aged patrols, I WANT THE PLs, ASPL, SPL AND SELECT SCOUTS TO SIGN OFF ON THE S-T-2-1 (up to their actual rank, i.e. a 2nd Class PL can't sign off on First Class requirement). At the moment it's only the adults who sign off. More later

Good question. The SM needs to be replaced due to his health. I offered, but the COR/CC stated that they really want a church member to be SM as they view Scouting as an outreach ministry. I'm good with that. My friend is suppose to be the new SM, challenge is how to go about replacing the old SM without any drama or ill will. Let's face it, HE restarted the troop, got it up and running. I've found it's very hard to let something go after putting your heart and soul, as well as your time and treasure, into it for a number of years, and he's been involved with the troop for over 40, except when it folded briefly. My thoughts on improving, and this will be a ramble so bear with me. 1) start getting the Scouts to run the meetings more. This comes and goes. I admit under the last SPL, I organized a few meetings for him, basically when he was unavailable, and got youth to teach it. Or if not a youth, then an adult other than the SM. Were the youth instructors perfect, no, but they were better meetings because they did get the Scouts involve.d 1A) gotta emphasize more forcefully that he needs an agenda WRITTEN OUT and SHARED (emphasis) with the PLC and the SM. "if it isn't written. it won't happen" 1B) And this is where I think I'm balancing on the high wire between advising and mentoring vs. adult leading. I want to incorporate a little more ceremony into inducting new members, COHs, etc. I'm use to having meaningful ceremonies for investing new Scouts with their Scout Badge/rank, and receiving their neckerchief and woggle when they join the troop and commit to staying. I'm also use to a little more ceremony at COHs than " The following Scouts earned their Second Class Badge...." Also want the youth doing the bulk of the COH instead of the adults, if not the whole thing. ( FYI Troop growing up Scouts handled giving out ranks up to First Class. Star, Life, MBs and some special awards were given out by the adults.) 2) and this one comes from the oldest son, only 1 adult allowed in the room with the Scouts, and they get to pick. THAT'S GOING TO BE A FUN ONE TO IMPLEMENT! Seriously, this is something oldest suggested to help with the adult problem. Challenge is he doesn't think it should be the current SM as he will jump in too much. In fact he doesn't suggest any of the adult leader except me. Don't know if that's b/c I'm dad or he really means it when he says "you try really hard not to jump in. Sometimes you jump in a little too early. But sometimes you jump in at the right time." What ever the real truth is, I hope he talks to the BOR about this when it's his time. More later.

A few comments. 1) Thanks for putting up with my venting and giving ideas. It helps a lot. 2) I believe that multiple factors have led to the problem. While some of it is Scout related, i.e. ages, maturity, accepting responsibility, etc, the bulk of it is adult driven. A) for the longest time it was a one man show, i.e the SM doing it all. And to keep the troop going, the SM did it all. Can't be done. B) Some of the new leaders are seeing it done the wrong may and are thinking it's right. This is particularly the former Cub Leaders. C) Some leaders, who should know better, instead of using the Boy Scout's Patrol Method model, instead are relying on their military training and are trying to use that instead. D) While training has been done, other aspects have not, i.e. Monthly PLC meetings, post meeting get togethers, etc. communication is haphazard in the form of emails, texts and instant messages. Talked to my friend who will become the next SM, hopefully soon. Lots of good ideas to improve the troop. But will the troop will be ready for the mass influx in december? Another friend stated that even the smaller projection of 14 new Scouts can kill the troop if we are not ready for them

I am going to quote my son regarding last night's meeting, and, upon reflecting, the entire situation with the troop: "The adults are the problem, Dad." Long story short, what should have taken about 10 minutes, took 45 because adults kept interfering. The parents/adult leaders didn't trust their sons to be able to pay the camp fee to their PLs. Very frustrating. I had to tell the 2 parents to let the Scouts to handle it, and one was adamant that only he could handle it because "it's special situation." Yes, the PL was out sick and his mom gave the money to the dad. The son could have handled it. And we have a situation as a result of adult interference. Same "it's a special situation" dad above convinced his son that he and another Scout they were not ready for BORs a month ago, they needed to work on a few things. Long story short, the kids are ready now, but we may not be able to get a BOR in time for them to be recognized at the Court of Honor in two weeks since the next time the committee can not meet next week. Then the adults ate up time trying to solve a "perceived" problem. Again money was being collected, and instead of an orderly way of collecting it and parents got involved, and scouts were throwing money to the PLs. NSP had issues keeping track of who paid what as a result. Took a total of 45 minutes, and the TG having the patrol leave the room with the adults in it to solve the matter. Ok I admit when I went to see how they were doing, and saw the handbook being thrown out of the room and folks not listening to the APL and TG and seeing the "I need help look in son's eye." I intervened. Now they were not the only patrol that had issues, another one had similar issues, just not the adults interfering. SPL was frustrated, so I asked if I could take a minute or two when the troop got back together after game time. I asked why did it take so long to figure out who paid. I got the answers of people not knowing how much to pay, and people throwing money. I asked for ways to communicate better, got facebook and texting, but I mention how the PLs need to call their patrol members, as not everyone has textable phones, nor is on facebook. Also stated how calls give you confirmation they got the info. Then I asked about handling money. While they did not mention adult interference, they did mention a solution the throwing money problem. I was over and done with in about 2, maybe three minutes. Then one of the leaders out of nowhere came up with menus and duty rosters, issues that have been problems previously, but was settled over the weekend. At that point it was a non issue, but apparently he thought that was what took so long, and not the money. Oldest talked to me on the ride home, thanked me for getting adults out of the way as best I could, and said, "The adults are the problem, Dad."

Best thing I did as a Scout Show was a Boatswain's Chair. Two pioneering towers, one 25'-30' high, a second at 15' to 20' high and about 50' to 100' away. String up steel rope between the two, and attach a Boatswain's chair to the steel rope, and Bob's your uncle you got a ride that anyone wants to go on. Unfortunately BSA has effectively banned them since you need a NCS C.O.P.E. director to inspect it, a safety line above the rope, harnesses and brain buckets on participants, etc. Saw the pioneering ferris wheel and would love to make one of those. Low monkey bridges are doable. catapults are doable. Patch TRADING and not DISPLAYING ( emphasis) is doable. We did the displaying, ok one of the adults did the diplaying and it was OK. We were ticked off because it was the first year we could not do the Boatswain's Chair, and only did the show because Green Bar Bill was going to be there. Eventually it turned into patch trading, and those into that had fun.