DuctTape

One thing to remember is that determining quality is most often subjective, hence descriptors not numbers. Quantity is easy to determine objectively, as it is a number already. Subjective measures are not bad, in fact they are usually found where quality is the highest. Michelin stars for chefs are solely from subjective analysis for example. Thus we should not shy away from subjectivity, but embrace it.

Exactly! Which is what I was attempting to describe as a better alternative system than what currently exists.

The JTE is not at all what I am envisioning as it is simply a checklist. There is no quality continuum. There is a vast difference between a troop that has 20 camping nights a year all planned and executed by the adults where the scouts basically show up unload stuff from the trailer and maybe cook their own food. vs a troop whose patrols plan independent camping trips on their own (in accordance with ypt) where each patrol member is responsible for some aspect such as patrol qm getting/returning gear from the troop qm.

Agreed. It should not be used as a ranking system, but one for self-evaluation. UCs could help with the self-eval and then provide training and support to help the unit improve. However, if a unit is functioning at a lvl 1 in almost all areas and refuses to improve then the council should not renew their charter as the CO is not providing the proper oversight, leadership, and is in default of the chartering agreement.

Good point. A place to start would be to define the core areas of the program, and describe what quality looks like at differing levels of competence. This is a different approach than "requirements" which are check-boxes. For example, if we define Uses the Patrol Method as a core area then the levels could be: LVL1. Patrols are created by adults. Patrols are mixed up at events based on attendance. Patrols make no decisions for themselves and rely primarily on adults. LVL2. Patrols are created by scouts with parameters decided by adults. Patrols sometimes stick together but usually not. Patrol decisions are primarily about menus and kp, and make little/no decisions about activities and rely on adults for most other things. LVL3. Patrols are created by scouts with guidance from adults. Patrols usually stick together at events. Some Patrol decisions are guided by the PL and made by the patrol. Most aspects of patrol activities are within the troop structure. LVL4. Patrols are created by scouts with guidance from senior scouts. Patrols always operate independently from each other. Patrols make all decisions guided by the PL. Patrol activities are independent of troop, however multiple patrols may choose to coordinate via the PLC. This example is just a rough idea to illustrate the concept. Many aspects are not included, and other core areas are obviously missing too. The idea is to first create a description of what a "perfect program" would look like, then break it down into different core concepts which are then "leveled" to assess a unit at each core concept. There should never be an expectation that a unit is "perfect" ie LVL4 in all core areas. There should be an expectation that they are not at LVL1. The purpose of levels instead of check-box reqs, is the levels provide specific descriptors to which strive.

Flyers and events are both passive marketing. They require folks to make the effort to come to you. If few show up, then more active marketing is required. Some suggestions already like utilizing existing networks, and scouts inviting 1-on-1 are good starts. The next level which has also been hinted at, including your community event, is based on the adage "bring the mountain to mohammed". Scouts should go to where kids are already and do scouting activities there inviting others to join in. Then invite them to the next meeting, hike, campout, etc... For example, if kids are congregating at a local park for soccer, skateboarding, basketball, whatever... have the scouts go to the park and lash a tripod, cook lunch, do stretcher relays. Invite the other kids to join in.

IMHO the program skills training which is lacking, and sorely needed: 1. Patrol Method 2. Training youth to be leaders. 3. How to be a Scouter. 4. Advancement as a method, and the process. all of the above should be specific "how tos" and also include counter-examples.

Many of the factors described by the OP in the first post, and then clarified as lifestyle choices are very prevalent in wealthy areas. The only difference is those with $ are able to hide it better and (unfortunately) the myth persists that those with wealth must have worked hard for it and the poor are lazy. In many wealthy areas, drug use by adults abounds, and broken homes are the norm too. In no areas are the kids responsible for where they were born and to whom. Yes they have choices too, but they are still kids.

Agreed about being a mB counselor for those things we are passionate about. Should be the case for all mB counselors as that passion can transfer to the scouts. If the passion does not exist, the likelihood of the scout becoming passionate about the activity is unlikely. Worse, a scout with fledgeling passion will have it extinguished by a ho-hum mB counselor. Back to your post, that is very cool for the scouts to have their letter published. It will certainly encourage them to continue to write letters to editor, etc...

Yes. But a marketing program and strategy is necessary to deliver the message. In the early days, books and comics abounded. Written by scouters, but allowed by BSA. Scouting was part of kids entertainment. In these times, kids use youtube, and other social media. To attract them, there needs to be content. Not "how to tie a bowline" content, but the fun and adventures which have the outdoor skills embedded. Also, not to focus entirely on the "super high adventure", but on more everyday scouting activities. A regular campout, not philmont. At least the proportions should be an accurate reflection.

That is fantastic!

In the not so distant past, some councils had community youth soccer/bball groups registered as "scouts". They did no scouting at all, it was just an after school youth sports program. As long as dues were coming in, no one cared. I suppose the number of registered scouts made someone look good too. It was about 10-20 years ago when it was finally cleaned up.

There are a few species of moss (I do not know the names) which make fantastic TP. It is like using a wet-wipe. One species in particular my paddling partner and I call "the clean get-a-way" (from the commercial). This allows us to not have to burn used TP in areas which require it.

The "smearing" or "frosting" technique shows a complete understanding of the principles when used appropriately. And a complete misunderstanding when not. I do not include it in my basic LNT instruction as it is suitable only in environments where those new to backcountry camping are not (or should not) be venturing yet.

When the water is heated, it is quite nice as a "shower". No need to lather up! Feels great to have the bath temp water pouring over one's head, especially when lake temp is in the 50s.

It is not difficult to find a location. I have been to the Quetico (Canadian side of BWCA) numerous times, and locations are easy to find. One has to find them for digging a cat hole anyway. Second, if one is only using warm water (no soap), then it is no different from swimming in the lake.

I have always viewed the problem as some chartering organizations used their pull to have BSA conform to these COs beliefs and doctrine which then forced other COs who did not have those same beliefs to exclude members they would otherwise allow. To use an analogy, many religious based COs believe the eating of pork is a sin, and thus violates their moral code. I argue it would not be appropriate for those COs to dictate that BSA prohibit bacon and/or exclude from membership those who eat it. It is entirely appropriate for the CO to not have bacon at their functions. Sure this seems like a ridiculous argument to make, but the "sexual ethics" argument would be the same, just swapping out "one sin for another". Again, it boils down to whether one CO should dictate to another CO (through their power with BSA) what "values" the other COs must use for membership. I argue no.

And I think BP would agree. In "Aids to Scoutmastership" he wrote, "Living under canvas is a very different thing from camping. Any ass, so to speak, can live under canvas where he is one of a herd with everything done for him; but he might as well stop at home for all the good it is likely to do him."

For sure. Backpacking having to carry all water sounds like a chore. I tend to go places where water is abundant.

Take a "woods shower". A pot of water heated to a nice bath temp, a cup, a bandana, and a private place in the woods. Scoop and pour cupfuls of warm refreshing water over your head. Use other hand to "scrub" away dirt and grime. Being extra mindful of crotch and armpits. Dry off best you can with bandana. Get dressed.

If a business provides a service or product, it may not discriminate against the customer. (ie "we don't serve your kind".) An organization and can have its own membership policies (Freedom of Association). BSA acting as a business selling popcorn cannot choose to "not sell to certain groups". Or if they "rent" their facilities to others, they cannot discriminate. This is how I see it (as a non-attorney).

As the ash borer began to make its way towards our parts I began to plant some seedlings to take their place in my woods proactively. I have also collected acorns from the nearby park and left piles for the squirrels to hide hoping that some might take root. Fortunately my woods are not a monoculture of ash, so all is not lost. The hickory are the most abundant.

Yes. For the last decade or so I cook a traditional thanksgiving menu in the woods over an open fire. I use backpacking cook gear (no dutch oven) . We camp from Thurs-Sat. Since most cannot make it for Thurs, I cook the main meal on Friday. I break down the turkey into breast and thigh pieces before heading out as it is easier to cook in parts. (I do the same when I cook turkey at home.) Edit: This is not a scout trip. But one w/ adult friends. Although there is no reason it could not be undertaken by youths.

Another benefit the Adult Association by means of the traditional approach to the mB process is the scout making the initial contact with an adult he/she does not know to plan and arrange the counseling sessions. I do not think losing this opportunity by having scouts do mBs only at camp, mB colleges, or even with troop adults can be underscored enough. When a scout desires a "rare" mB, this is the perfect opportunity to this traditional approach, in contrast to offering it at a college b/c only one or two counselors for that mB exist in council. I think the colleges serve a role, but they should be limited to introducing the mB counselor and content. Ending with providing contact info for the scouts to call/email/etc... the counselor to set up sessions (perhaps with a couple buddies at most).

What is often missing in the rush to mBs via "colleges" or the like is the real benefit of the Adult Association method. The more personal the time spent with the youth, the more the adult assiciation as a method can be used to accomplish the aims. The biggest problem with the mB mills and the give-away mBs is they are an example of the opposite of our aims. Cutting corners and taking the easy way out is not ethical decision making. By focusing on advancement as the goal, handing out signed blue cards to scouts who have not fulfilled the reqs, showing scouts how to cheat the system and denying scouts the benefit of true adult association is the worst example we can provide the scouts. It goes against the very Aims of the movement.