BrentAllen

Our Council's Scout CPR Saturday received some good coverage in the local paper today. http://projects.ajc.com/gallery/view/metro/atlanta/scouts-cpr/ The tags on picture #3 are reversed. Should read (L to R).

I don't know if this has been discussed, but there was apparently a major error in the 2010 publications. The 12th Edition BS HB, 2010 Boy Scouts Requirements book, and on the scouting.org and BSAHandbook.org web sites. This is incorrect. From Scouting Magazine: Today's question comes from Arlene Freeman, a Scouter in Austin, Tex. She writes: Does the Bugler position fulfill the "position of responsibility" for Eagle Scout? If it does, when did the position become effective for Eagle rank? The simple answer is: No, it doesn't count as a position of responsibility. For the explanation, we went to Michael Lo Vecchio, program assistant for youth development. Here's his answer: Bugler is not a leadership position for Eagle Scout. It was inadvertently listed in the new 12th edition of the BSA Handbook, the 2010 Boy Scout Requirements book, and on the scouting.org and BSAhandbook.org Web sites. It has been removed from the Eagle Scout Rank Application. The sites and books are in the process of being updated. Thanks for the question, Arlene! http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2010/03/ask-the-expert-does-bugler-fulfill-the-position-of-responsibility-for-the-eagle-scout-award.html

"The Patrol system is the one essential feature in which Scout training differs from that of all other organizations." "The Patrol system is not A way to operate a Boy Scout Troop, it is the ONLY way. Unless the Patrol system is in operation you really don't have a Boy Scout Troop." "The Patrol is the unit in Scouting always, whether for work or for play, for discipline or for duty." "Patrols should be kept intact under all circumstances." "The object of the Patrol system is mainly to give real responsibility to as many boys as possible, with a view to developing their character." "The Patrol is the character school for the individual." "The Patrol system is the key to success in Scout training." Baden-Powell

Noles, Glad to hear you had a great time! Sounds like you went into the course with the right attitude - be a sponge. Did you ever feel like you were drinking from a fire hose? :-) I would love some of the questions I would get from participants getting ready for the course - should I bring a book to read? fishing gear? something to do in their spare time? How much spare time did you have, noles? ;^) If you ever get a chance to staff, take it, if at all possible. You get a two-fer when you staff - you get to see the whole course (presented and critiqued) during course development, and then again during the actual course. You'd be surprised at how much you miss the first time around. There is just so much information, it's hard to catch it all. It sounds like you have a great patrol. Hopefully you will all stay Scout friends, and even get beaded together. I was Troop Guide for the Bears in Summer 2008; they have all stayed in touch and they luckily keep me looped in on their email conversations, which are great entertainment! They are all getting beaded together in about two weeks - it will be a lot of fun to see them all again! Good luck on your second weekend! Let us know how it goes! I used to be a Fox, and a good ol' Fox, too!

QC, We are right there with you - small Chapter in a big district. Lots and lots of flappers. We are to the point where the 4 boys from our Troop are usually the majority at Chapter meetings. As SM, I have a discussion with the eligible boys in our Troop about getting into the OA. I tell them if they are going to be on the ballot and get elected, I expect to see them at meetings. If they don't have the time for meetings and activities, take their name off the ballot. I would suggest contacting all the Troops in your Chapter and asking who the OA Rep is. My guess is most have an OA Rep, even though you never see them. Start putting a little heat on the OA Reps to do their jobs. Ask them to give you a call ahead of time if they can't make a meeting. If they don't notify you and don't show, call them up afterwards and let them know they were missed, invite them to the next meeting, and keep repeating. Getting a unit (Pack, Troop, Chapter, etc) started is like getting a passenger jet off the ground. It takes a lot of energy to get the jet rolling, and then to get it into the air, with engines at full throttle. Once it reaches altitude, the throttle is eased back and you cruise. You have your work cut out for you. Be ready to clearly describe your vision for the chapter, and recruit friends who will share in that vision. Start small and celebrate small successes. As you grow in size, so will your successes. Good luck!

Ed, Only you could look at a Troop in full uniform, with Scout books in hand, and think that was sad. I hear the ACLU calling you - "Ed, come help us tear down the BSA!"

I would first interview all the Scouts involved and take very good notes. I would find out if he was really selling pot, or was it just oregano. If I suspect it was the real deal, I discuss the issue with CC, COR and the Scouts parents. Depending on how the parents react, I might suggest they have him drug tested (the boy's reaction to a drug test request should be very telling). If it turns out there is strong evidence it was the real deal, I would recommend a suspension of 6 - 12 months. If it happens again, he is kicked out of the Troop.

Article in the Wall Street Journal on the BSA HB. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704188104575083692664509822.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Buffalo, I've only had to use this line once, and it worked. "This isn't the Mom or Dad Scouts, this is the Boy Scouts." I'd add to that, "I look forward to talking to your son when it is possible."

Ed, That is just too funny, coming from someone who makes up ridiculous interpretations allowing SMs to tell their boys they can wear jeans with their uniform! Or better yet, can't go a few days without posting that a uniform isn't required! I'm just curious - when you were involved with your Troop, did you constantly tell the boys they didn't need a uniform? And that they didn't even need to attend meetings or outings to be considered active? I bet that would lead to the formation of one of the best Troops in the council! I suggest you join the ACLU - you'd be much happier, and I'm sure they could use your special interpretative skills!

Well, Ed, to be our in Troop, a Scout needs a handbook. We use it to record his advancement, so without it, the Scout can't advance. The knowledge and instructions for advancement, camping, the Oath and Law - its all in the book. All 26 of our Scouts have their own book. How many of your Scouts didn't own a BS HB? I guess we are just a bunch of mean, old men. The Scout knows he is supposed to have his book with him for a BOR, but he forgets it and has to wait a week. I guess when any of your Scouts forgot anything, you were right there to give them a replacement and make things right. I guess there are some valuable lessons in your approach, I just can't seem to think of any. Maybe you could provide some. For us, we teach the Scouts that they need to Be Prepared (where have I heard that before?). If they aren't, they will suffer the consequences. If a Scout forgets his rain gear, he is going to get wet (happened to this same Scout, he says it will never happen again - for the book or rain gear). I don't think he would have learned the same lesson if I played "mommy" and pulled out an extra poncho, or we allowed him to have his BOR without his book. No mistake, but I will clarify: In our Troop, you have to have your Handbook to be in uniform for maximum points in the Honor Patrol Competition.

Scoutfish and Ed, Can you read? I posted the answer, but I guess I'll have to answer again. Maybe this time I will type slower so you can understand. In order to sit for a BOR, the Scout needs his book. The members of the BOR check the book to see that all the requirements are signed off as completed. We had Scouts showing up at meetings for their BOR without their books. So, the PLC added the book to uniforming FOR OUR TROOP HONOR PATROL COMPETITION. We didn't change any requirement for advancement, only for scoring for an internal Troop competition. The Scout has to have his book for his BOR regardless of whether we count it towards uniforming in the Honor Patrol competition, so the board can see that all requirements are signed off as completed. If you still can't understand the above, then look at it this way - For the Honor Patrol Competition, to get maximum points, the Scouts must be in full uniform. To get maximum points, they need to have their BS HB with them. To get maximum points, they need to have 100% attendance at meetings and campouts. The book is just a scoring component in the Honor Patrol competition. Scoutfish, I know you are just a Guppie right now regarding your Scouting experience, so you have a lot to learn. Ed, how did your Troop conduct BORs if a Scout didn't have his book with him? How did they verify the Scout had completed all the requirements? How did they sign off that the BOR had been completed, if the Scout didn't have his book with him?

Ed, No where, not in a single BSA document, will you find any text giving Troops the option of wearing jeans or other pants with the official uniform. The BSA HB, the SM HB and the Rules and Regs make this so clear, even a blind man can see it! Your most tortured, twisted, illogical reading of the text can't even begin to authorize what you suggest. Again, the BSA doesn't need you and your ridiculous interpretations - go join the local croquet or badmitten club. I'm sure they could use your expertise. DWS, You will notice the cited R & R sates "the official uniforms, as described in the official publications." The Activity uniform is clearly described in the official publications - the BS HB and the SM HB. No problem there.

Congratulations, Ed! You just won the Most Ridiculous Interpretation of the Rules & Regs EVER Award!!! I'm sure you are correct, and that is why that option is described so well in the SM HB and the BS HB. NOT!! SM HB, Chapter 15, The Uniform and Insignia, pg. 159: "No alterations of, or additions to, the official uniform may be made by any Scout, leader, or Scouting official without permission from the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America." Give me a break! You know, the BSA really doesn't need any wanna-be lawyers misinterpreting the Rules and Regs to the detriment of the program. Please find something else to do.

BS, Do you have B-P's "Rovering to Success"? That is a good one to add, if you can find a copy. I can't find a print date in mine, but it appears to be a second edition, 9th printing. The Forward, explaining it is a new edition, is dated Sept. 1930, Pax Hill, by B-P. It is filled with short stories and advice for living a good life, according to B-P.

BS, The 3rd Edition SM HB (1938 printing) covers the SPL. Written by GBB. That is the earliest edition I have. When we had 2 patrols, we didn't have an SPL. I performed the duties of the SPL, while also training the PLs for the job. When we added a third patrol last year, the boys decided they were ready for an SPL and elected one. Our oldest boys just turned 14 so they are still maturing, and they are growing with the jobs. We don't have cross-over until the middle of March so I don't yet know the total number of boys we are getting. I know we are going to add one patrol, maybe two. Looking back, I think it was a good idea to elect an SPL with just three patrols, as the boys were able to learn the job with a smaller group.

A good level-headed book, and an interesting read. If nothing else, it will help you more clearly define your program, by deciding which parts you agree with and those you don't. He sticks to the BSA program pretty well, and refers to the Aims and Methods, but also dives into some other areas not covered in the SM HB. I would recommend adding it to your library.

Beavah, I didn't misquote anything. I copied the text right out of the Insignia Guide. Anyone can read it, on page 1. And it is NOT just a program book; it contains and is built on the Rules and Regs.

Scoutfish, I know you are new to all this, but you need to get up to speed. The BSA Rules and Regs say you can't change the uniform. If you tell the boys in your Den or Pack they only need to wear the uniform from the waist up, you have just changed the uniform. Surely, you can see that. And yes, the rules exist. Since you are in Cubs, I will focus on that program. Turn to the section in your Cub Leader Book on Uniforms and Insignia, page 12-11 in my copy. Under HOW TO WEAR THE UNIFORM, 3rd paragraph. "Uniform parts should not be worn separately or with civilian clothing. The entire uniform should be worn or not at all. The pack does not have the authority to make changes to the uniform." I don't think that can be much clearer. No waist up uniform, no blue jeans. See page 12-1, UNIFORM POLICIES AND PROCEDURES "All Cub Scout leaders should become familiar with the rules and regulations on uniforming so that they can set a good example for the boys." Chapter 8, page 8-1 WHY WE HAVE POLICIES "Generally, Cub Scouting is flexible. There are many different ways of managing a pack to fit the needs of its members. But ALTHOUGH THE PROGRAM IS FLEXIBLE, THE POLICIES ARE NOT. ALL ASPECTS OF CUB SCOUTING AND ITS ACTIVITIES MUST COMPLY WITH THE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. (emphasis NOT added). All leaders agree to uphold the policies of the BSA when they sign the Adult Application for registraion." From your comments, I'm guessing you were never in Scouts as a youth. In order to sit for a BOR, the Scout needs his book. The members of the BOR check the book to see that all the requirements are signed off as completed. We had Scouts showing up at meetings for their BOR without their books. So, the PLC added the book to uniforming FOR OUR TROOP HONOR PATROL COMPETITION. We didn't change any requirement for advancement, only for scoring for an internal Troop competition. The Scout has to have his book for his BOR regardless of whether we count it towards uniforming in the Honor Patrol competition. You better think hard about Wood Badge. Full uniform is required. I'd recommend waiting a year or two, so you can get up to speed on the program.

Ed, Scoutfish, Show me anywhere in the official BSA documents that authorizes a Scout to wear jeans with his uniform. Insisting that a Scout, if he is going to wear the uniform, wear it completely and correctly, IS ABIDING by the BSA Rules and Regs. Scouters have an obligation to promote the wearing of the complete, correct uniform. Requiring the Scout to be in full uniform for the EBOR, if he wears it, is living up to this obligation. OFFICIAL POLICY The leaders of Scoutingboth volunteer and professionalpromote the wearing of the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions. Go ahead, keep watering down the program until it won't mean anything. Whether it be PORs held without any work, OA flappers who never show up again after Ordeal but gladly wear the patch, MB & rank badges given out for just being present, older Scouts who never attend but somehow earn that Eagle, and Scouters, Scouts and parents who refuse to promote the correct wearing of the uniform, the Eagle badge is dying the death of a thousand cuts. I guess this isn't new, as I've run into many Scouters who wear the Eagle knot but leave you scratching your head, wondering how in the world did they ever earn it, and what kind of Troop did they come from. Maybe that Eagle badge isn't nearly as important as the numbers on his left sleeve.

If doing good deeds is seen as a bad thing by the public at large, somebody better let Liberty Mutual know their commercials are really hurting them.

Rank badges in Cubs are not awarded as social promotion - you either do the requirements and earn it, or you don't. If you respect the BSA program, you honor it by maintaining the integrity of the awards.

Scoutfish, So, how do you feel about the BSA requiring complete, correct uniform to attend the National Jamboree? BTW, Packs or Troops do not have the authority to change the uniform (i.e. establish Pack policy of waist-up uniform or blue jeans). Yes, a uniform is not required, but the Rules and Regs also state you aren't allowed to alter the uniform or wear parts of it with civilian wear. Wear it all, completely and correctly, or don't wear it.

Ed, The answer "no" to my last question would contradict a "no" answer to the others. [Local boards of review may not make up their own rules about wearing a uniform.] If a board allowed a partial uniform, they WOULD be making up their OWN rules, that go against BSA Rules and Regs.

John, I would propose he wear a coat and tie. Is he ever going to wear the Eagle badge? If so, I would suggest he wear whatever he is going to wear the badge on. Interesting that the new text doesn't address those who are in only a partial uniform. The Rules and Regs say no alteration or additions may be made. Uniform parts are not to be worn with civilian clothes. So, can an EBOR say either full complete uniform (as the Rules and Regs read), or no uniform at all? Can an Eagle Board refuse to meet with a Scout in his Scout shirt and blue jeans? The ARP&P that say a uniform isn't required and the R & R say you can't wear only a partial uniform. Do you enforce one, and not the other?