BrentAllen

We would take 30 (personally-owned) 2-man tents - our Scouts pair up for trips. It's hard enough finding tent sites for 30 tents, I couldn't imagine trying to find them for twice that number. Some of our Scouts that cross over in Feb./March won't get their own personal tent until December, and that's fine. For the parents that don't want to give (more) electronic games and devices to their son for Christmas, tents make a great gift. Now that our bank account is growing a little, we will probably purchase a tent or two as a loner. We have a couple of backpacks that can be borrowed by Scouts who don't own one.

I would think they can. The BSA Action Shirt is a part of the BSA just as Venturing is part of the BSA. The only thing on the Action shirt is the intials "BSA" and the fleur de lis. The dark green Venturing shirt has "BSA" on it, and the world crest (fleur de lis). http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=BOOK&c3=&c4=&lv=2&item=615ASL I don't know how it will work with insignia - the material is on the thin side. Also be careful - there is a rumor that Supply is discontinuing this shirt. On the scoutstuff.org site, you will notice they only have one size for adults - Small. We use these shirts as part of our Activity (Class B) uniform, and they work great. Get 'em while you can.

Source, That Life Scout would have a hard time making Eagle in our Troop, assuming he hadn't already filled his POR requirement. We don't just give out PORs to Scouts who need one to fill a requirement, they go to the best Scout able to do the job. If a Scout misses most meetings and outings, why would the SPL be interested in asking him to help run the Troop? If there is a true hardship issue, I can work with him to find a solution. Short of that, if the Scout never shows up, none of the other boys are going to be interested in electing him PL, or have him fill any other POR.

Also, in a circular pattern, everyone will be tripping over guy lines, especially at night. Our Scouts use their own personal tents. We tell the parents to buy two-man tents, and most go with either the REI Half-Dome or the Alps Mountaineering Taurus. We encourage the parents to wait and get them on sale. Simple, two-pole designs (though the Half-Dome just went thru a redesign that looks a little more complicated). They can be used for car camping, river trips or backpacking. We have not had any problems with damage. I like to think that if they have their own tents, they may also go camping with their parent or family, outside of Scouting. Each patrol gets their own equipment box with stove, cook kit, cooking utensils, etc. They have to take care of it and clean it, as they will be using it again next month. I guess all the "uniform tent" folks didn't care for the Third Place winner in the photo contest in Scouting Magazine, taken by a friend of mine, Jim Gilpatrick. http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/1003/a-adventure.html

For the two shirkers in the OP, I would have pulled them aside for a quick SM conference, and reminded them the Scout Oath they recite states they will help other people at all times. I would ask how does hiding when there is work to be done live up to the Oath? I would wait for probably several uncomfortable minutes before moving to the next point - showing Scout Spirit and living up to the Oath is a requirement for advancement, and as of right now, they just failed that one. They are going to have to go out of their way to show me they are meeting this requirement from this point forward, if they expect to advance. I've been very fortunate in that we haven't had to deal with any real behavior problems. They aren't saints, but they are pretty well behaved. Our PLC knows what is acceptable and what isn't, and they pass this down to their Scouts. I tell our PLC members that if they run into a behavior issue with a Scout and he won't listen to them, just say, "OK, but our SM doesn't like that." If the Scout starts asking questions, "what do you mean?", they shouldn't elaborate but just repeat it again. I haven't had any situation escalate to where I heard about it, but if a Scout were to be brought to me following the above, I would let them know that was unacceptable behavior, and if they want to remain a member of this Troop, they better change their ways. It is a privilege to be a member of our Troop, not a right.

Our Troop web page (SOAR) has a great email function. We can set up email groups for patrols, leaders, parents, committee, etc. It is very easy to use, and anyone in the group can use it. The Scouts and parents supply the email address they wish to use. Some of the boys have their own address, and their parents have theirs. Everyone we put into Troopmaster is a separate member of the group, so most families will have a separate user id for the Scout, mom and dad. Each one can have a different email address. This system works very well for us. The program even sends out a weekly E-Blast autmatically, showing upcoming events and any changes to the web page since the last E-Blast. Ours goes out every Sunday morning.

We had our AOL and Crossover ceremonies tonight, with 3 Webelos II Dens. 19 boys total. 15 of them joined our Troop, and 4 joined a strong Troop down the road. We just went from 26 Scouts in the Troop to 41. I don't think we can consider ourselves a small Troop anymore. We started with 6 boys in September, 2007 and I remember at the time wondering if we would ever get to a second patrol. Now we are wondering if we can turn down the faucet. From day one we have only been interested in providing a quality program, not worrying about how big we were. That hasn't changed, but now we are worrying about being able to provide the quality program at this size, and knowing we are likely to continue to grow. Fortunately, I have been blessed with good leaders, willing to go through training and work together as a team. Our older boys (we have 7 8th graders) are very active; most have attended NYLT and are getting involved with OA. They are doing a pretty good job of running the Troop and expanding their responsibilities in the PLC. We all have our work cut out for us now.

Several of our Scouts have their own email addresses. They also have Facebook pages, and several have invited me to join them, and I have. I don't request any of our Scouts to be friends on FB, but if they request, I will join. Our current SPL has set up a Troop FB page, as well (members only). I'm not sure I understand the worrying about email accounts. It's not like a person can erase an email they have sent to someone. Chat rooms are much more of a concern, since those conversations are harder to track.

Our Lodge had a nice Pow Wow at Bert Adams this past weekend. They invited a Drum Team (non-BSA) and some dancers to come out for some demonstrations and instruction. Due to the rain, most of the events had to be moved indoors. It still turned out very well. Pics at http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30612899&op=1&o=all&view=all&subj=2219626954&aid=-1&oid=2219626954&id=1134881572#!/photo_search.php?oid=2219626954&view=all Three Scouts from our Troop, including my son, sealed their Brotherhood. I did as well. It was a very nice ceremony.

allangr, Should I take the unit numbers off my shirt? I sure thought I was a member of our Troop. What do you wear on your shirt?

I don't think the program needs changing. I think Webelos DLs need to understand their mission - to prepare the boys for Boy Scouts. As COR for our Pack, I discuss this at the Pack Leaders meeting in August. We go over the timeline for visiting Troops, going camping with a Troop, finishing AOL requirements, crossing over. I make sure they understand their real job is to get the boys ready for the next level, Boy Scouts. If they understand and buy into that mission, it will come through during their meetings and outings.

I guess my situation must be different. We have 3 council camps, Bert Adams, Woodruff and the Allatoona Aquatics Base. Units are camping at these camps all the time. The Aquatics Base has lots of canoes, sail boats and motor boats. They offer lots of classes out there, staffed mainly by volunteers. There is one Ranger at Allatoona, two at both Bert Adams and Woodruff - they all live there on property. Our council runs three WB courses a year out at Bert. We have several council Cub events there each year. Summer Camp is run at both Bert and Woodruff. Cub and Webelos Encampments are offered at Bert. Cub Family Camping events are offered one weekend each summer at both Bert and Woodruff. Various training courses are offered at all 3 camps throughout the year. We don't pay anything to use the properties, unless we use the rifle range. Our camps get A LOT of use! Do you consider paying Ranger salaries program? What about the program center staff that record and approve Tour Permits? What about the staff that processes advancement reports? What about the staff that processes new Scout applications? I haven't done the math, but figure that your unit is helping fund the following positions (salaries): District Executive Field Director Council Program Director Finance Director Accounting staff Scout Executive Camp Rangers Program Staff 3 - 5 members (see above) Receptionist Are there any of these you are willing to do without? Think about all the expenses of just running your council volunteer service center. Gas, water, electric and phone bills. Computers, copiers, paper, phones. Maintenance. How much do you think it costs just to open the building and turn on the lights each day? Add that up, combine it with the salaries, and divide by the number of units in your council. I'm betting it is a pretty hefty number. Remember, they don't get any funding from dues. If you have a Scout that doesn't sell a single box of popcorn, look at all the services he is getting for free. We have a great council and I am happy to support it with both my time and money.

Well, Dances, a year ago the Dow was at 6763. Today it is at 10584. That is a 56% growth in value. At 32%, Aetna is underperforming the market.

Buffalo, Don't get wrapped around the axel on this issue - I think you are making it a bigger deal than it needs to be. We invite any parent to go camping with us - the door is always open. We do ask (insist) that they complete YP and Haz. Weather training before attending a campout. I think you will find with the new Scouts, the parents may attend the first campout or two, but once they have trust in the leaders (I'm guessing you haven't known them for a long time?), most will back off. If you close the door to them, it will probably make them want to go even more. We had the same issue last year - 14 new Scouts, first camping trip was the Camporee, where it always pours rain. Our older Scouts were pretty well outnumbered. The new Scouts acted a lot like Webelos, and spent a lot of time playing hide-n-seek or something similar in the woods. They had a blast, the older boys did the cooking, they taught the younger boys a few skills, and it all worked out. We tell the adults that camp with us there are just a few rules to follow on camping trips. The adults camp separately from the boys. Adults are not allowed in the patrol areas, unless there is an emergency. There is a chain of command to follow - if your son comes and asks you a question, your response is "Go ask your patrol leader." We even practice that a few times so they have it down. A parent is not allowed to discipline his son on the trip. If he sees his son doing something he doesn't like, he needs to find the SM or ASM and address it. Otherwise, they are welcome to come hang out with the adult patrol. You might want to invest in 3 or 4 SM HBs and take them on the trip. If the adults start interfering, give them one of the copies and ask them to read it. Maybe even give them some specific sections to read, and ask them to discuss it later. Use the event as an opportunity to train the parents. You might find a good ASM or two in the bunch. I don't think it is unreasonable for a new parent to want to attend a trip or two in a new Troop. I would do the same, if I was just a parent. We are asking for a lot of trust on their end. Let them go and get comfortable with the Troop, the program and the process.

If he wasn't able to broadcast to the continental US from Costa Rica (not Puerto Rico), I would certainly miss him. He only has the most popular radio talk show in the country. He is a great American success story. Update - he says he would go there for medical treatment, not move there.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

We have had 29 boys in our Troop in the 2 1/2 years we have been in operation, with 26 still active members. Of the 3 that left, one moved to Memphis, one dropped out after nearly 2 years (just wasn't for him), one dropped when his dad lost his job. We've had pretty good retention, and good participation. We will be receiving our new Scouts next week, and should get anywhere from 12 to 15. There are a few boys that are on the fence about continuing on into Boy Scouts, and if they all do join us, I wouldn't be surprised if we lost a few during the first year. I spend a good bit of time with Webelos II parents during our recruiting events. We sometimes forget these parents haven't read the BS Handbook or the SM Handbook, and many were never in Scouts. They have no idea what they are seeing during a Troop meeting, except that it can look pretty disorganized compared to the Den meeting their son attended last week. So I spend a lot of time with the parents explaining the program. I also encourage them to visit the other Troops in the area and find the one that fits them best. I let them know our expectations regarding attendance, behavior, uniforming, etc. Better to get that all out on the table while they are Troop shopping than after cross-over.

Does either of your councils own any camp properties? Do you ever camp there? Do they charge you? Have you compared Summer Camp fees to other non-Scouting camps? Around here, they are 1/2 to 1/3 of other camps. Remember, your council doesn't get anything from BSA registration fees. That money goes straight to national, and for Boy's Life. You don't pay anything to council as far as dues go. Nothing for salaries, camp properties, camp equipment, etc. Just some things to think about.

New requirements for 2010, found in the second link of my last post: Tenderfoot A Scout must teach another person how to tie a square knot using the EDGE model (explain, demonstrate, guide, and enable). He also must be able to discuss four specific examples of how he lived the points of the Scout Law in his daily life. Second Class A Scout must discuss the principles of Leave No Trace and explain the factors to consider when choosing a patrol site and where to pitch a tent. He must explain what respect is due the flag of the United States. He must again discuss four examples of how he lived four different points of the Scout Law in his daily life. He must earn an amount of money agreed upon by the Scout and his parents and save at least 50 percent of it. First Class An additional requirement to the 10 separate troop/patrol activities states he must demonstrate the principles of Leave No Trace on these outings. He must discuss four more examples of how he lived the remaining four points of the Scout Law in his daily life. Life A Scout must use the EDGE model to teach a younger Scout a specified skill. I just try to follow the program.

SMT, That is not correct. A Scout can finish up a rank under old requirements, but once he starts a new rank, he will need to follow the new requirements. http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/ask-the-expert/ Ask the Expert: Do I use the new or old rank requirements? Rockie Yardley of Oklahoma's Last Frontier Council wondered: What is National's official policy on the new rank requirements if a Scout has started working on a rank prior to Jan. 1, 2010? As you know, a Scout is generally working on multiple ranks at once. If he has already started working on a rank prior to Jan. 1, 2010, does he use the old requirements, new requirements, or can he choose? And does the rule apply to all ranks? Great question. For the answer, we checked in with Joe Glasscock. He writes: He completes the requirements for the rank he is working on. When he moves to the next rank, he should use the new requirements. http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0911/d-trailhead.html Note: If a Boy Scout is working out of the old edition of the handbook, he may continue using those requirements until he completes that rank. Then he must move to the new edition.

R- Well, we may agree on that one point, but I don't see much else we agree on. So, in your book, the Scout doesn't have any responsibility in this issue? He shouldn't ever approach the SM and ask about his position? Or draw up his own job description? Or ask when and where he can work a bugle call into the program? In your book, he should just sit there for 6 months and do nothing? That's not the type of leader we are trying to build in our Troop. We should be teaching if someone drops the ball, you pick it up and run with it. Not that if someone drops the ball, you get a free pass. People are going to make mistakes all the time. How you deal with those mistakes is how you define your character. What are you going to do when the next Scout comes up and says he wants to be Bugler, and he wants to do the same thing this Scout did? That is only fair, right? If you demand more from him than you did the other Scout, he is going to say you are being unfair. Why should he have to do more than the other Bugler?

I was on that course with Randy, and I agree - looking back, it is pretty amazing what some of the patrols came up with. Our patrol didn't end up requesting anything from the QM (we probably weren't smart enough to do that), we just used what we had on hand. It definitely helps to have some creative minds in the group. In some ways, it is easier since you don't have the time or materials to worry about producing booklets or handouts - the projects were probably a little more focused. We saw everything from demonstrations to skits in our course. Between taps and reveille - yep, that was about it - along with other things on the list. I think I averaged about 5 hours of sleep a night on that course, and loved every minute of it!

rdclements, Technically, Bugler falls under the direction of the ASPL, not the SPL. Bugler is not part of the PLC. Do we really want to be teaching Scouts that getting credit for doing nothing is appropriate? Hopefully, the ASPL would step in and require the Bugler to do his job. If that doesn't happen, the SM is still responsible to see that advancement requirements are met. He can't just throw it back on the ASPL and say that since the ASPL didn't require anything be done, the Bugler gets a pass on the requirement. The SM is in charge of advancement. The buck stops with the SM. We teach that character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking. This can be applied to this situation - character is doing your job even when no one is looking, or demanding it of you. Do we really want to teach Scouts that the only time they need to do their job is if someone is watching over them with a clipboard and stop watch? I sure hope not. I hope we are teaching Scouts to be self-starters, to be motivated to do things on their own. To show some initiative and do what it takes to get the job done, to make a difference.

If it were me, I would ask the Scout at a SMC if he thought he had done a good job, and had completed the requirement. If he says no, restart the clock and give him another chance, if he can really do the job. If he says yes, go deeper into the subject. What did he do (#1, #2, #3, etc.) in the position? Did he leave the position better than he found it? Did he set a good example for the next Scout who will be Bugler? I would explain to him that I didn't see anything done, and neither did the Troop. If he wants to claim he held the position and completed the requirement, the other boys in the Troop are going to know he skated by on this one, and he is going to lose their respect. If he wants to follow this path, and he loses the respect of the other Scouts, he may never get offered another POR - and would have a hard time earning Eagle. Make sure he sees the consequences of both paths here. Make sure he takes into consideration how the other Scouts in the Troop will view his actions. Then let him decide what he wants to do.

At the courses I served on, we tried to get the Tickets pretty well fleshed out during the first weekend. They HAD to have them ready to turn in at the beginning of the second weekend. The staff were lined up at the gate for the beginning of the second weekend, waiting for the participants to arrive. As they did, they were required to hand in their tickets before they could go any further. If a participant had problems getting them worked out by the end of the first weekend, the TG/Ticket counselor worked with them over the break to get them written.

2 sources for you: http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0110/a-lone.html http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/LoneScout.aspx I agree with noles - your son will miss out on much that the program has to offer.