BrentAllen

Bad, evil BSA program!! Why, they even corrupted Green Bar Bill! He didn't have the SPL reporting to the Troop Committee. He didn't have the Boards of Review run by the Scouts. BTW, he was Danish - do you lump him in with all the bad "American adults" who ruined B-P's program?(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

The units still have to submit Advancement Reports to council for summer camp mbs. Any errors are corrected thru the Program Director - he will send out a corrected pdf if needed. The MB Completion Reports are handed out to unit leaders on Friday night, after the big end-of-week campfire. They try to have representatives from each program area on-hand to deal with any errors that are readily apparent. The reality is we don't have much time to go over them that night, or even the next morning. I think they are mainly looking for missing reports. Once home, the Program Director can be reached by email, and he has been very responsive, the few times I have needed information.

E V, Where in the ACP&P does it mention the Handbook and Blue cards as primary proof? The stated order of blue card, unit advancement report, merit badge card? I must have missed that. Atlanta Area Council doesn't issue blue cards at summer camp. We get a "Scout MB Completion Report" which is a page showing which MBs were taken, which were completed, and which requirements were not completed for partials. The report is printed with the signature of the Program Director.

No, we don't expect or require the SPL to report to the committee - that isn't his job, and it isn't part of his job description by the BSA program. As the parent, if I wanted to put an end to the CC request, I would have a friendly conversation with the SM to see if he could deal with the CC, let him know that isn't the job of the SPL. If that didn't work, I would have my son write a courteous note to the CC, along the lines of, "Mr. CC, According to training I have received in (TLT, NYLT, etc.) it is not the role or the responsibility of the SPL to report to the committee. If I am mistaken, please direct me to the BSA publication outlining my committee reporting responsibility and I will be happy to oblige. Sincerely, SPL."

oldsm, I think part of the way you deal with this is setting up some new ground rules for parents on trips. If a parent has a problem with a Scout or the way something is being handled on a trip, he/she is to find a uniformed leader and get them to deal with it. Parents are never to step in, unless there is a health or safety issue. We had a similar (though smaller) problem on our last trip. One of our Scout's dad (parents divorced) was visiting from out of state, and went on the trip with us. The weather was pretty rainy, but we had missed most of the really bad weather. About 2:00 AM we started getting some lightening, not really that close, but a lot of it. The rain had increased and I decided to get the boys into a building. The dad was helping me get the boys up and out of their tents. One of our older Scouts thought he was supposed to pack up his sleeping bag and pad. The dad didn't appreciate how long it was taking, and dropped the F bomb, telling him to hurry up. The Scout, to his credit, replied, "Well, you don't have to use that kind of language!" Once inside, the dad came up to me and quietly said "you have some very well-behaved boys in your troop." He went on to explain what had happened, and I told him that we (the boys and I) don't care for bad language. He apologized and everything was fine. I'm pretty sure none of our ASMs or CMs would use bad language with our Scouts. I've only had one other instance similar to this one (funny thing, it was the same Scout on the receiving end, though he did absolutely nothing wrong) and, again, it was a dad (at a meeting), not one of our leaders. We are trying to walk that fine line of letting the parents see a little Scouting, without having them interfere. It can be difficult.

7 - 10 minutes is too far away? I don't guess those Scouts will ever go on a Patrol outing, on their own - even a simple day hike.

Myth I had repeated to me last month, at our Camporee: Scouts can't use liquid fuel stoves or lanterns.

Depends on the trip. On car camping trips, I usually take my Canon EOS Rebel, with an 18 - 55mm lens. It works great for activities during the day, and around the campfire at night. I have used this camera hard since 2004 and it is still going strong. For backpacking and river trips, I use a Canon PowerShot A560 in a Pelican case that looks like it was custom made for the camera. I took this camera on our NT trip, carrying it in the Pelican case attached to a belt loop. The camera and case worked very well, with no problems. There was another NT crew pulling out just ahead of us. One of the adults wanted to photo their departure, so he had to open his Day Pack (just another item to carry), open a smaller dry bag inside, pull out the camera for the pics, and then repack it all. If you can't get your hands on your camera in 5 seconds, you are going to miss a lot of pictures. The Canon D10 might be a good substitute for the camera/Pelican case combo.

Our camp allows us to take the test before we arrive, and we do. We take it in a pool, and the camp has a lake. All of our first year Scouts take Swimming, if they pass the swim test. We haven't had any issues of pool vs. lake, and that might be due to the abundance of lakes nearby. "Going to the lake" is a regular occurance around here (my son went with some friends yesterday, and they were out on the water, already riding the tube). We have a Red Cross-certified Life Guard conduct the test for us. Saves a TON of time at camp!

We also have some blending between ASMs and Committee. Our CC loves camping as much (or more) than I do, and he will go if he is in the country. His job does keep him from several trips a year (he is currently trapped in London), but if he can go, he will. Other committee members will attend a trip from time to time, either if they are very interested in the activity or we need transportation help. To be an ASM in our Troop, the candidate has to be registered (committee member) and active for at least a year, and complete all SM/ASM training. We want a year to see how they work with the Scouts and see if they really get the program. We currently have 3 ASMs for 42 Scouts. We have one new dad who really wants to get involved in the program, and he is registered to take the training courses offered at Summer Camp. I view the SM position as full-time, meaning I attend all the meetings and campouts. I view the ASM position as part-time, meaning they attend most meetings and most campouts. Between us all, we work very well as a team and get it covered. We don't have a lot of specific jobs assigned to individual ASMs. We do have one who takes care of pop corn, one who works with equipment, one who collects paperwork for trips. They just took these jobs on as they came up and they saw a need. The four of us work together as an Outdoor Committee, working with the PLC to plan trips.

I still don't buy your argument. These are parts of the newspaper announcements for some local Eagles. They are pretty typical. I'd say these Eagles are pretty active in their Troop, school and community. Michael joined Troop 477 in 2002 and has been an active member participating in many of the troops outdoor activities and service projects. He has held many troop leadership positions, including Senior Patrol Leader, and was chosen by his peers to be a member of Scouting's honor society, the "Order of the Arrow". One of the highlights for Michael was participating in a high adventure trip to Philmont Scout Ranchs newest program, Double-H High Adventure Base in Datil, New Mexico. Michael is a senior at Chamblee High School where hes a member of the National Science Honor Society, Math team, and cross-country, swim, and track teams. He is also an active member in Chamblee First United Methodists Youth group as well as Young Life. Mark joined Troop 477 in 2002 and has been an active member participating in many of the Troops outdoor activities and service projects. He has held many Troop leadership positions including Senior Patrol Leader, Scribe, Summer Camp SPL, Den Chief and Troop Guide. One of the highlights for Mark was participating in a high adventure backpacking trip at the Double-H High Adventure Base in Datil, New Mexico. Mark is a senior at Chamblee Charter High School where he is a member of National Honor Society, CCHS Yearbook, Chamblee Crazies and the Varsity baseball team. He is an active member of Temple Emanu-El where he currently works in the Religious School office. After graduation, Mark will attend Emory University where he hopes to play baseball. John has served as Senior Patrol Leader, Patrol Leader, and Troop Guide. Johns favorite experience in scouting was backpacking 70 miles over 12 days with 18 other scouts and adults from his Troop at Philmont Scout Reservation in Cimarron, New Mexico in 2003, where he served as one of the two crew chiefs. John also enjoyed the challenge backpacking for a week this summer with 19 scouts and adult leaders from the Troop at the Double H Ranch High Adventure Base in New Mexico, serving as navigator. John is a senior at Wesleyan School, where he is a member of the National Honor Society, French Honor Society, co-captain of the Varsity Wrestling team, student government officer, and participant on a mission trip to Jamaica this year. John is a member of Dunwoody United Methodist Church, is active in its Youth Program, and participated in last years mission trip to Brazil. Ben served as Assistant Senior Patrol Leader with the Troop. He is currently a member of Sea Scout Ship 477 / Venture Crew 477 and the Atlanta Sea Scout Sailing Team. In October of this year, Ben as skipper with Kenny Munn as crew, won the Southern Region Sea Scout Sailing Qualifier Regatta at Lake Lanier and have earned the right to represent Atlanta at the William I. Koch International Sea Scout Cup championship regatta which is also the national Sea Scout sailing championship. During high school, Ben was a member of the Latin club and a member of the Math Honor Society (Mu Alpha Theta) and participated with the math competition team.

1965 Eagle requirements: 2. While a Life Scout, serve actively as a troop warrant officer (patrol leader, senior patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, junior assistant Scoutmaster, instructor, scribe, quartermaster, librarian, den chief) for a period of not less than 6 months. 1965 Life requirements: Same as above, except for 3 months or carry out a SM-assigned project to help the troop. 1965 Star requirements: Same as above, no time specified, followed by this text in italics: The key word is "actively." A Scout must serve in the warrant office position long enough to prove that he is serving actively. For Star, the leadership of the troop shall decide what this length of warrant office service shall be. I think it is safe to say formal leadership has been a part of advancement for at least the last 45 years.

First was Coin Collecting. Favorites were Wilderness Survival and Archery. I took Archery at Summer Camp, and at the closing ceremonines, the counselor called me out (complete surprise) and presented me with an arrow with the following written on the shaft: Highest Qualification Score 208 pts. Camp Jamison I was on Cloud 9 for the rest of the summer after that.

I have used www.label-land.com with very good success. I just received this email today from them: If you have kids going to summer camp this year or any other need for personalized iron/sew on labels, permanent stickers and bag tags. Then the next 7 days are the best time to order your labels from Label Land and save. If you are not familiar with the promotion, the way it works is as follows: Between today and April 16th, 2010, you place your order on our website ( www.label-land.com ) and when you get to the order confirmation page you enter the coupon code PREMAY which will take 25% off your order. If you prefer to order by phone, just mention this code to the representative taking your order. PLEASE NOTE YOU WILL RECEIVE YOUR ORDER THE FIRST WEEK OF MAY. I haven't compared prices so I don't know if they are expensive or a bargain. The product is simple and works well. 15 seconds with an iron and they are on for good.

The 1957 requirements for Eagle had leadership for 6 months as a requirement. II. Scout Participation While a Life Scout for a period of at least six months show to the satisfaction of your leaders that you: a. Work actively as a leader in the meetings, outdoor activities and service projects of your Unit. By this time the Scout or Explorer should have developed as a leader in his Unit and there should be no doubt as to his ability to lead in meetings, outdoor activities and service projects. You and others who know his leadership ability should be able to present evidence of his behalf. If you wanted to make Eagle, you had to be a leader. Warrant Troop Leaders were the SPL and JASM, in the 1938 text. In the 1957 SM HB, in the Junior Leader Recognition section, "warrants" were presented to PLs, SPL, Scribe, QM, Librarian, JASMs. The 1957 requirements for "active": 1. Work atively in Patrol and Troop meetings, outdoor activities and service projects. The Troop and Patrol records will show the boy's attendance. The testimony of the leaders involved, preferably given at a meeting of the Patrol Leaders' Council, will indicate how "actively" the boy participated. The Troop will set its own standards for "active participation." My, we have come along way with the definition of "active" since then.

Lisa, I would be much more inclined to label your list as "extraordinary" than "typical." The "typical" Scout has one 1 1/2 hour meeting a week, and one campout a month. The nice thing about Scouts is there are lots of extras a boy can participate in, if he chooses (and is eligible). OA, High Adventure, NYLT, Venturing, Summer Camp staff - all extras available, if a Scout wished to pursue them. Instead of just talking about the craze, let's talk a little about the benefits. Jeff Foxworthy will gladly tell you that Scouting provided the father he never had thru his SM, and kept him on the path that lead to a successful career and family. I had lunch yesterday with a young man with a similar story - grew up poor with a single mom, in a very rough part of town. Most of the kids he was friends with are either in prison, on drugs or dead. Scouting was his refuge, his SM the father figure absent in his life. He stayed in Scouting, earned Eagle and went on to be the only member of his family to ever go to college. He is now gainfully employed, married with an 18 month old son. He can't wait until his son is old enough to join Scouts. As a Scout, he was thankful for every minute he could spend at a Scouting event. It was the strong, positive influence in his life. I don't think I know of any other program that has nearly as many of these type of success stories. So while we are discussing the overscheduled, pushed-thru-everything kids, let's not forget about the other end of the scale, those for who Scouting may be their only activity.

RememberSchiff, Sounds like a burned out parent, more than a burned out Scout. I know lots of Scouts that participate in those things you mentioned, and are very active in Scouts. Participating in Scouting has not kept them from those other activities. I don't know when you were in Scouts, but in the early 70's there was a POR requirement for advancement. As a Scout, I played baseball and basketball, played in the school band, took piano lessons - lots of other activities. Which of those activities has stuck with me to today? Scouting, and the search for adventure that developed in Scouting. Scouting has always been active. This is the goal for a Troop program from the 1938 printing of the SM HB: Weekly or fortnightly Troop Meetings. At least monthly Troop HIkes and Overnight Camps. Multitudinous Patrol Meetings and Hikes. At least one week's camp during the summer. Compared to that, I'd say the Scout activity calendar of today's Scouts is relatively light.

Our Scout Shop wants to see an Advancement Report in order to purchase rank or merit badge awards. I have purchased a second set and told them they were for a second shirt for my son, with no problem. If you are only purchasing 1 or 2 badges, they shouldn't give you a hard time. There are a lot of Scouts going to Jambo, so the Scout Shop employees should have seen these requests before.

If he successfully completes the requirements on his own, then yes, check him off. If he requires assistance, then count the attempt as learning. Remember, that rank badge recognizes what he can do, it is not a reward for what he has done. Boy Scouts isn't like Cubs or Webelos where the boy does the skill once and is checked off. He needs to master those T-FC skills. If he is still learning and needs assistance in getting the meals cooked (or planned or purchased), then let him work on it some more. He has plenty of time to get to FC. Unless this new Scout did A LOT of Den camping (and cooking) in Webelos, I'd be surprised if he has the knowledge and skills to successfully complete the requirements. If he just crossed over in the past month or two, how many campouts has he been on as a Boy Scout? How many times has he even seen a patrol cook on a campout? If you use EDGE, it sounds like the Scout is jumping ahead to Enable. If Demonstrating and Guiding are taking place, he isn't ready for check off, IMO.

Well, since the question was asked (thread title), I thought I would give my answer.

A Committee Member should take WB only if they are interested in learning how to become a better Committee Member, how to be a better team member, and how to find ways to improve the committee. If they aren't interested in any of those, they shouldn't take WB.

One of the many reasons we started the new Troop was due to some bullying our Scouts were experiencing. What do we do about it? We take the words in the SM HB, pg. 6, to heart: Scouting - A Values-Based Program Scouting offers boys an environment in which everyone can feel secure both physically and emotionally. That sense of security comes from Scoutmasters and other adult leaders: Setting an example for themselves and others by living the Scout Oath and Law to the best of their abilities. Refusing to tolerate name-calling, put-downs, discrimination, or any form of physical aggression. Communicating their acceptance of boys by taking a real interest in each Scout. Using the Scouting program to create a setting based on learning and fun. They seek the best from each Scout and do all they can to allow him to achieve it. Talk the talk, and walk the walk.

When I was CM, we would collect dues only once, in August, to cover recharter, badges, Pinewood Derby kits, and the Blue & Gold banquet. $75 covered it all. When you have around 100 boys in the Pack, you try to only do things like collecting money once. If you collect all dues at the beginning of the program year, it doesn't matter when recharter takes place.

A big part of WB is looking at your current unit or group (be it a Pack, Troop, Committee, Den, etc.), understanding where it is now, having a vision of where you would like it to be, and putting together a plan to get it to that point. This can be very hard to do if one hasn't been part of that group for at least a year. Also, there are certain times in a Scouter's career when taking WB can be very difficult and frustrating. I think the worst would be for a Webelos II leader who's son will be graduating up Boy Scouts. Unless the course is taken at the beginning of the Webelos II program year (August/September), the leader is going to have a hard time finishing his ticket before the boys cross over to Boy Scouts. They can't really write it for the Boy Scouts, unless they know which Troop their son is going to join and they have some leadership experience with that Troop. WB is a great course, but consideration needs to be given as to the appropriate time to take it.

April Fool's Day was two days ago.