Krampus

Let me know which sections you end up doing. Did most of the AT as a Scout and young adult. Especially love the section heading south from MD into VA and along the VA mountains. The trek in to Harper's Ferry was a blast. Planned battlefield visits with hiking, a few trail angel stops, one night in Harper's Ferry in a nice B&B (middle of trek) and headed south again. Once the kids are out of HS I plan to hit the AT as often as possible. The section in NC around Ashville has 26 of the tallest peaks in the chain. As I recall, there are 50+ peaks above 4,000ft, 26 of them are in that area alone. Don't forget the 4,000 Foot Club.

Barry, one other thing we run in to often is that some adults get frustrated in "having to teach leadership/responsibility all over again" every year. I keep reminding them that leadership, will be cyclical (Think: Economic waves for the Econ majors out there). Some guys will be on one wave, others will be on a different wave. We, as leaders, are on a constant, always having to validate which wave of leaders needs help and which are fine and on the upswing.

Sounds like his unit already does a ton of camping too.

ROFL...I figured you did. Being a Raiders fan the last 20+ years have been a disappointment. When you grow up with winning the AFC West every year and knowing you'll play the Steelers every AFC Championship game (or just about), it is hard to live in the desert after having lived in an Oasis. So, that's why the NFL is lost to me.

Leadership is also a spectrum. I have guys that will never be PLs but they make darn good Instructors. Others are not Instructors but excellent QMs. Some are so shy that Scribe is a better role. I think we have to look at age, ability and strengths. For me, leadership roles should play to one's strengths, but allow for room to work on weaknesses. It should be inside their comfort zone but allow them the chance to be challenged. I agree that we should also encourage Scouts to at least TRY other leadership positions. Give being PL (or acting PL) a try. You may like it. You may find a hidden talent. My two cents.

@@Hedgehog Sounds like your unit is smaller and closer in age/rank categories than ours. We have no issues with T2FC guys getting their cooking in AND the cooking MB guys getting their turn. In fact, there are many times the two can help each other. We have 3-4 unit based trail opportunities a year, 10-12 patrol based opportunities and 2 high adventure opportunities. Could be my unit is just different. Sounds like you have a good set up that works for you. Should post picsof the iron chef stadium.

We had a few last minute cancellations. We are going this summer (August) and have slots for Scouts and Scouters. It's August 10-18th. It is a pretty easy trek focusing on the fun camps rather than through hiking 120 miles. Boys wanted fun over stress. Happy to save you a spot or two.

I am all in favor of what @@Hedgehog is doing. His heart is in the right place and it sounds like he's really making this a special event. Our unit does something similar BUT it does not take away from troop events. For example, we have a special event that runs through cooking techniques from grilling to blanching to smoking to steaming. We also cover knife techniques (how to slice, cut, chop, mince) properly using the proper knives (e.g., don't use a paring knife for chopping). We also hold a TopChef patrol cooking competition. Much fun. It is all optional from the MB but we always get 100% attendance...and we don't cannibalize any unit events.

I get that. If that's how you want to do it, then it surely meets the requirement. I'd prefer for our scouts to build these skills on camp outs. If they know they have to go on camp outs to get cooking done, guess what? They go. They also have a totally different set of preparation and logistics when planning to be away rather than driving to a leader's house. There are more differences than just being in your backyard. But like I said, it meets the requirements. I'd just prefer my scouts to do it while camping....just like I'd like them to actually be hiking or backpacking and not in the city park using a jetboil or white gas stove. Sure, it's outdoors, they have to pack the food and carry it, clean up, etc...but it is still not really "on the trail", is it?

I prefer my guys to do their cooking on Scout camp outs for the patrol-based cooking. They can do the home requirements at home on a stove or grill. For the patrol cooking it really should be on a camp out. Otherwise, for the "trail meal" they could go to the city park around the corner and eat their meal there rather than on an honest to God hike or backpacking trip.

If he didn't meet these requirements then things should not count. It is pretty clear, no "what ifs" necessary. If he was 9, home-schooled, 162 IQ, captain of his soccer team, learned to speak Japanese at 18 months and can compose a piano concerto...DOES NOT MATTER.

ROFL. Was out hiking and enjoying the evening weather. Commercials are available online the next day. The score was available via ESPN's feed. The highlights allow me to watch later while not wasting my life watching yet another boring game.

What if the parents lied? Not saying they did, but what if? Still a scout in your eyes then?

When we teach the class we even go over knife skills (chopping, dicing, mincing) as well as hands-on on work with broiling, grilling, sautee, blanching, etc. We even did a section on smoking meats. All "extra credit" and not mandatory, but we had 100% attendance....and you got to eat afterwards.

The younger guys get a chance to lead. The issue was one of the training wheels coming off. They've always had the older guys there as back up, even when the younger guys were leading. Now the older guys are out, so the fun shall begin.

Have a camp out coming up. All the older Scouts have other spring events to attend and cannot be there. The younger Scouts were a bit scared about camping without the older guys to lead. When I told them that THEY were in charge since the older guys were not there, their eyes lit up. They are now VERY excited about camping and cooking.

Boy's Life posted about two hours ago on FB. BSA posted a photo that showed they were 106 on FB yesterday.

Correct. My bad. But since you have to earn Scout before any other rank, if you are not eligible for Scout anything after that is moot. Yup. I was thinking the same thing. I will bet you someone somewhere either gave the wrong data or put the wrong data in. Am thinking it is the former. Yes. But the GTA meant ELIGIBLE Scouts. He's not a Scout. Not at the time. You cannot apply the rules for Scouts to non-Scouts. Every time we look the other way on something like this we cheapen the path to Eagle for all. I'd say ANYTHING earned before he was 11 years old or completed the 5th grade should be UN-EARNED and needs to be RE-EARNED!! He was not eligible. Otherwise, ANY Cub Scout should be allowed to work on ANY Boy Scout badge prior to becoming Scout they want. If you move the line for one you need to move it for everyone. IMHO, the burden is national, council and the parents. They need to find out what the original application said. If national made the mistake they need to find the solution. If the parents lied, then he's ineligible and should have everything prior to being eligible taken back.

I know you agree with this, @@Stosh, but we shouldn't have to bring the conversation to brinkmanship. Parent should WANT to be involved in their kid's lives beyond dropping them off at events. Our pack required parents to be around for Tiger events. That is what Tigers was about. We encouraged parents to be involved in other pack and den events after Tigers as well. It wasn't necessary for every parent to attend every meeting, but to show up and take an interest was a great example for their kids to witness. Kids know when they're being "dumped" at a meeting so mom can get a pedicure and dad can hang a Starbucks and surf the net. The kids pick up on this are are ambivalent as all heck when their parents display this behavior. I have been tracking two groups of parents in my unit for three years now. One is the drop-off-and-run crowd, the other the stay-and-volunteer crowd. Suffice to say that the latter's kids are more involved, achieved ranks faster and are better scouts than those who drop and run. Go figure.

Oddly enough the next elections were HIGHLY scrutinized by the boys. They asked questions of the candidates so the 3 minute speeches were actually 5-7 min QAs. Camp outs were better attended than in the previous cycle and the boys really kept an eye on their leaders. Accountability! I love it!!!

This is it! He was not eligible to earn anything, so nothing was earned. Anything earned AFTER he was 11 or completed the 5th grade, then arguably that CAN count. If BSA upholds this how can they turn down ANY Scout who starts earning stuff before he's eligible...or for that matter, AFTER he's eligible?

This CANNOT be allowed to stand! If he joined early there is NO WAY the national Eagle review will uphold his Eagle. I know we don't punish a Scout for an adult mistake, but at some point we need to be realistic at how UNFAIR this would be to other Scouts who did not make Eagle for other reasons. He's young. Make him start again. He will make it.

Since my comment sparked this discussion I will add some context. The SPL was pretty popular. He talked a good game and could make a great speech. He went to NYLT but clearly did not learn how to use any of those techniques for leadership. He missed many camp outs. His ASPLs were equally ineffective. He is a good student well organized with notebooks and binders for all occasions. He had been part of PLCs before so he knew how they ran. He knew what was covered and what had to happen each month. PLCs were a mess. He was trying to be Joe Cool rather than be a leader. No organization. All those binders and no idea how to run a meeting, organize a team, assign responsibilities or build consensus. Make me wonder how much his organization was driven (and managed) by his parents. On camp outs his idea of leadership was sitting in a hammock or chair and telling guys to do stuff or what they were doing wrong. We had SEVERAL meetings with his entire leadership team. We re-walked them through their roles, expectations and processes they needed to follow to do their jobs. We set up a calendar for the rest of their term assigning responsibilities, due dates and duties. We created with the PLC "canned meetings' which were ready-made meetings the SPL or ASPL could run if the planning patrol failed to create their meeting plan. We RE-RAN this SAME workshop for them a month later. Phone calls, meetings, email reminders and the like went with no answer, no response and work just not getting done. Three months in to their term we had a meeting where the leadership team was unprepared for the weekly meeting. I told them they had to either a) come up with a meeting plan and execute on the fly, b) use one of the canned meetings (and make up a new one to take the place of the one you used), or c) tell the troop they messed up, forgot to plan a meeting and send everyone home early. They chose the latter. I made them wait until the last Scout was picked up and we had a lesson's learned meeting. It was the camp out after this meeting (which the SPL did not attend) that the PLs and most of the troop wanted to get him out of office. I reminded everyone at the camp fire that night that leadership was a learning process. Sometimes guys do great. Sometimes they fail miserably. We can only hope that we learn more from our failures that from our successes. The message was that we elect our leaders and stick with them. We support them no matter what. Whether it is a president, club leader or SPL, we stick with the person we elected and support them in their charge. If they fail and learn, great. If they fail and blame others the WE need to learn OUR lesson. This Scout, however, did not think the failure was his. He sought to blame school, his peers, the younger scouts; anyone other than himself. His parents supported is delusion. In the end the Scouts saw him for who he was and did not appreciate his poor attitude. His stock dropped. Once thought of as a person who was one of the strongest Scouts, he is now seen as a weak and feeble Scout. Lesson learned...at least by the troop. The next two leaders have shown just how strong a new group of leaders can develop from the example of one very poor one.

This is a great site. I've gone to it over the years. Fun read.

The hardest thing is to walk away from a unit after putting in so much time to build it. You can only do your best to train the folks taking over and hope they do their best and follow the plan.