Krampus

We average in what we average out. That's by design. We try to stay at the same level of scouts years to year. Of course we go over or under that number sometimes, but on average we have been at that same number (with a standard deviation of +/- 5 scouts) for around 10 years.

Our average since our founding is just over 4/year. Over the last 5 years it has risen to about 7.5/year. We are below the average for our area but our retention rate is one of the highest. We did find a high correlation between scouts making Eagle and parents involvement at some level within the troop. Nearly 90% of the boys who made Eagle had a parent who volunteered a great deal with the unit. This is a fact we note for new parents eager for their Scout to make Eagle.

Good catch. I could see this working for small councils/districts. Could not see this working in larger districts. You'd need a full time staff.

Don't underestimate your role. Keeping the committee's eyes on what they are supposed to be doing and OUT of the program side would be Nirvana for many SMs. All too often we have TC folks getting involved in operational issues. As SMs we let the boys led. Too often when TC folks or parents show up they try to intervene. Had to pull a dad away this last weekend from his kid's patrol. He said, "I'm just talking to my kid." I had to point out that Cubs ended last year. Adults are very boring in Boy Scouts. We intervene in health and safety issues, disciplinary issues and provide advise and leadership growth input. Most of the time we sit and do our own thing. You'd be welcome on my committee any day if you do all that.

I hear ya. There's no way a centralized model would work. Frankly, could not imagine having a group of people who do not know our boys making judgement about them. Although our district rep keeps telling me our guys are the best prepared of any he sees. It works against us more than it helps us. We used to be bigger. They split us in two several years ago. Big mistake.

I agree in part. We have some kids on the spectrum but they have always had PORs within the patrol (as Scout through Second Class) before taking on a larger POR. Most have done quite well in doing this and have nailed their troop-level POR. Many of these guys are my best instructors.

Does the beneficiary need to know how the project is done? Of course!! Would you let any work crew work on your house without a detailed plan on how and when things will get done? BSA is missing the boat by not having the unit and beneficiary sign off on the PLAN as well as the proposal.

I get what you are saying. Usually when we hold SMCs for rank it is because the scout can attest to all requirements for that rank being completed. If you go by the book, the SM signature is recognition that Requirement #5 (service project) is completed. Above the signature line it specifically says "In my opinion, this Eagle Scout service project meets Eagle Scout requirement 5, as stated on page 4 of this workbook.". So if you sign the final report at the SMC you are essentially taking a meeting where all the requirements have not been officially completed. Personally, I'd prefer the requirements to be signed off prior to the SMC if at all possible. It puts the onus on the scout to make sure all his cards and book are signed before making a meeting.. I would expect only a few exceptions to this process. To each his own.

You're right. The POR can be a project for any rank except Eagle. For Eagle, unless a Lone Scout, it must be one of the approved PORs. From the GTA 4.2.3.4.1: "For Star and Life ranks only, a unit leader may assign, as a substitute for the position of responsibility, a leadership project that helps the unit. If this is done, the unit leader should consult the unit committee and unit advancement coordinator to arrive at suitable standards. The experience should provide lessons similar to those of the listed positions, but it must not be confused with, or compared to, the scope of an Eagle Scout service project. It may be productive in many cases for the Scout to propose a leadership project that is discussed with the unit leader and then 'assigned.'"

I noted @@Hedgehog is on retainer on my form.

Let's be clear about the blue card process: It does not matter if the current or past SM signs a blue card. No one verifies whether the name on it is real, fake, past or present. Council just wants the unit approval for the scout to start an MB. The MBC signs to acknowledge their information and completion of the MB. The unit lead (or designee) signs noting that the blue card was completed and properly filled out. The problem in the OP is simply because of adults wanting to have their power trip. It has nothing to do with the blue cards, the process or the validity of blue cards or online systems. The blue card is meant to be a process for helping scouts track their progress AND an audit trail in case someone screws up. The simple fix here is for the SM to sign after discussing with the scout his work on the MB if the SM has any questions.

Here's the whois lookup. Type in the URL and you can get all the info. It is owned by BSA.

Lol. We don't either. We've stuck to the process more to manage parents than kids. In fact I think most of what we do these days is more parent Mgmt than kid Mgmt.

How do you schedule an SMC for Eagle unless you know requirement 5 is done? Shouldn't that be signed off BEFORE the SMC? We had an SM do as you suggest only to find out that the project was not yet quite finished. We went back to the by-the-book route where all signatures are done and all requirements signed off before an SMC is scheduled.

I see. I would expect that to be part of the success criteria marking the project done to the beneficiary's satisfaction. We advise all of our scouts to include these things in their project plan; a check list if you will on what constitutes a successful completion of the project which both the beneficiary and the scout agree to as part of his plan. Again, not part of the workbook but something we heavily suggest be done. Clearly whoever created the BSA workbook has never proposed or responded to a proposal before. The plan should be agreed to by both parties so we know what and how things will be done and when it is considered complete.

Exactly. We post archery, shotgun, climbing and all our action pics on FB and other places. Best recruitment tool ever.

Logically one would think the leaders would sign or review the project plan after the proposal is done and signed. My beef with BSA is that they don't require a signature on the plan too. How will a scout learn if they are not guided and advised in their plan? Well, I have seen scouts get their proposal signed and run off and do their project without a plan. As there is no mandated check point to produce a plan prior to doing the project, as stated above, this is where BSA is wrong. No where in business do you perform work simply based on a high-level proposal. You ALWAYS come back with a detailed plan, THEN do the work. Glad to hear your son was smart. That's as much the SM's fault as it is the scout's fault. I heavily suggest that the guys get their plan done along with their proposal. I review both but only sign the proposal. Have only ever had one person push back and that was the person who screwed up their project due to very poor planning (or lack of). Hmmm. If the SM signed off on the proposal then what "adjustments" need to be made? The only person who can request changes is the beneficiary. If the scope of work meets their approval, unless there was a policy or procedural violation the SM cannot require any changes. This is exactly why we "request" our scouts do their plan and proposal before doing work and review BOTH with all signatories. It helps to prevent "scope creep" later on. Well, as long as "A Scoutmaster" signed the blue cards (twice, once to start and once to complete) AND the MB counselor signed them, they are considered valid cards and he HAS TO submit them. In fact, most summer camps don't require blue cards anymore. So you can have scouts signing up for MBs at summer camp and then getting partials or completed MBs back. MOST units simply sign the blue cards or create blue cards for their records. Sounds like you have a few control freaks that get off on making things difficult. The blue card issue takes two seconds to resolve...have the SM sign the darn thing. Read the Guide to Advancement. It is like your consumer rights handbook. If the unit is doing anything contrary to what is written there then they need to be taken to task. Your district advancement chairman can help you.

Not sure why any unit lead would sign then. The final report is a requirement of the rank and the signature indicates that the unit leader has read the workbook and finds everything in order.

The unit leader signs the card TWICE. Once when the blue card is requested and again AFTER the MB is completed and the counselor signs off. So the card, to be valid requires TWO Scoutmaster signatures and the MB counselor signature. The counselor is doing your son a favor. Most councils will turn down cards that are not properly signed which may delay him making Eagle. BTW, I would start making sure now that ALL dates in his scout handbook match all the official dates in his official record. I have seen dates get screwed up for scouts that transfer. Better to align things now than to wait.

I just read "signatures" so maybe it would help to define the process. It was my understanding the process is: Scout develops proposal.Beneficiary, SM and TC Chair sign Scout develops plan.No signatures required (amazingly) Scout does project. Scout develops final report.Beneficiary, SM and TC Chair sign

Interesting. Ever get any push back from the Scout or district about doing this? The scout is only required to have the proposal signed off before beginning work. They are not required to complete the workbook prior to beginning work.

Nope. No axe and no saw. The BSA tools guidelines are clear on who can use what. These need to be employed at EVERY unit actvitiy, including Eagle Projects. We work with our candidates to make sure all the BSA guidelines are followed. If units cannot have webelos shoot archery or bb guns during unit events, why would they be allowed to use tools prohibited at unit events?

So no pictures of the scouts for local papers? Nothing sent to Boy's Life? Council or District websites? Lodge websites? Jamboree or high adventure base pictures? @@blw2 is right, posting online CAN BE no different than being published in hard copy medium.

We had a twist on this "negative waves" issue this past weekend. Several of the patrols went off their menu. One was supposed to have Dutch oven pizza. They had spent the day running around exploring and were admittedly too tired to spend the time doing their planned menu. They did spaghetti instead. They put all the toppings for the pizza in the sauce. Tasted great! The dough for the crust? They made little dough balls, filled them with chocolate and fried them. Two adults came back from "circulating" to check on the patrols. One was going off on how the patrol was off their menu plan. I simply asked: "Are they wasting food?" "Is anyone going hungry?" "Is anyone getting hurt or in danger?" "Are they learning?" It got very quiet after that.

Right @@barry. And there are times you may "flex" up or down in the number of these positions based on need...or scout desire to fill them.