Krampus

In my opinion? No. Adults should not have ANY say in what a patrol does UNLESS there is a health or safety risk (includes behavioral). It says Boy Scouts for a reason. And when we say "adults" we are talking about trained, registered scouters. Not Dad or mom, an actual registered (and hopefully trained) scouter who knows BSA policies and what should/should not be done.

Good analysis comparing yesterday and today. But for the comparison of value to be complete, shouldn't you compare the cost of Jamboree with the costs of other vacation/experiences you can have? I use my Disney example: $6k for family of four, meals and transport for a week. Jambo: $6k for two people to sleep in tents, eat camp food, etc.

Bravo. Bring back...

@Sentinel947, I upped @@Eagledad's post because I think the whole NSP it a crock *IF* it is run where the adults run the patrol rather than a scout. If a scout runs it then that's okay. HOWEVER, I will say I do not think first year's get as much experience in an NSP run by an older scout as they would integrated with a mixed age patrol. We agree keeping boys together is key. The BSA study (forget the year) done a while back showed that boys that stay with friends are more likely to stay in scouting than those who don't. For my money you keep as many friends together as you can. I only move scouts based on discipline issues, at their request or if I see a leadership opportunity for them AND they want to make the move; otherwise, guys stay with friends...always. For me that is what scouting is about.

+1 @@Eagledad

Who's poll? What was the sample size? Did you miss BSA's own poll where the majority of scouters opposed the policy change?

Why are we thinking that scouts staying in the same patrol means using the NSP model? NSP puts all boys of the same age in a patrol. That's a plus. The minus is everything else they don't get exposed to that they would in mixed patrols. Most units I know who use mixed patrols keep friends together. No need for NSPs.

No. The survey did not survey current scouts. The survey did not ask if they were scouts. You cannot say "current scouts" are opposed to the ban UNLESS you survey the current scouts. You missed a fact: Parents 26-38 are not registering to be leaders in activities at the same rate that their peers, when they were in that age group, were active. In other words, that age group is less active in volunteerism for their kids than were previous generations.

Ours are usually advanced Life scouts or Eagles, nearly all have been SPLs. They are worth more to me than most ASMs.

The unofficial word I have heard from guys in the company doing the pamphlets is that BSA plans on doing 4-8 a year, as budget allows. They have 10 more in process...oddly, many of these are NOT the more popular, Eagle-required MBs. One would think they would focus on the most popular and/or Eagle-required MBs. Instead they seem to be, in part, focusing on those MBs that are easier to put in that format. I understand that sales have been "sluggish" (their word) and that most purchases still are hard copy.

"Short term drop in demand"? Our historical losses have been 3-4% year on year membership losses since 1996 or so. Those are facts posted in this forum before, in detail, noting BSA records everyone can check. Since 2013 the revised year on year loss average is 7-10% for 2013 and 2014. BSA won't release last year's (2015) revised number (as they have done every years since 1996). Those membership losses are MORE THAN DOUBLE those HIGH losses from 2013-14. One unofficial report I saw had last year's loss at nearly 14%!!!! That's not a short term drop in demand. That's an acceleration of our losses from the last three years which are DOUBLE our AVERAGE losses!! You cannot say this is short term until we have more data points in the future to see if these increases losses are sustained, go up or go down. But make no mistake, the policy change INCREASED our historic losses since 2013. Saying otherwise is just an attempt to re-write facts. EDIT: Unit losses are also up.

We are similar in how our council approaches jamboree, although our definition of "reasonable" may differ. It was nearly $6,000 for me and my son to attend were we to go. I got our family to Disney World for a week, including food and transport for the same price. THAT was reasonable. What was unreasonable was that my council would not let me find my own way to jamboree to save money. The cost of jamboree itself is MUCH cheaper. Were you to plan your own way there you could save thousands. So, for my money, the cost is not commensurate with the value of the trip.

+5 (if I could). Remember what Yoda said...

Yes, in my area there are about 1/3 of the troops use the NSP method. All the units I know of that use NSPs are very large (100+ scouts) troops. They put their first years (usually a class of 15-25 scouts) in NSPs. They assign ASMs (usually have 30 on staff) in charge of the NSPs. I have seen them at camporee...they are literally Cub Dens. The ASM shepherds them around like Webelos. Sad really. Some parents like that approach. I laugh when I hear them talk about "boy-led". I am sure they *think* they are, but there is no way a 15 year old SPL can managed a troop of 10 patrols, 100+ kids and 30+ adults on a camp out. Even at 50% participation that's like having two platoons!!!

Curious...what was the threat?

Been a while since I bought popcorn (our unit doesn't sell it). $25 for 22ozs of caramel corn?!?!?!? I can get FIVE BOXES of GS cookies for that!!!! No wonder our unit does not sell popcorn.

No. If the TG is in charge then he's a patrol leader. If you go with that model then why call him a troop guide. Have him be the NSP PL. Which then begs the question: What good is a NSP? If you are going to have a TG/PL and then some older scouts help from time to time, why not just call it a patrol of mixed ages? *BOOM* You now have the patrol method and take the training wheels off the Webelos IIIs. I cannot help but think the whole new scout patrol idea was created by adults to make it easier on them, not better for the boys. This happens in every patrol any way. In troops I have seen that use the NSP, once you get First Class you go out to "older" patrols. To be honest, the troops in my area that use the NSP concept are all Eagle mills. The NSP is adding another year of training wheels for the boys. You don't teach them self-sufficiency. They are told what to do, not how to figure out what to do. It is a very Millennial mind set. I think it is done so as to make the stress less on the adults; not having to chase around 6 patrols of rowdy kids rather lump them in one group and put an adult in charge. As you can tell, I am not a fan of NSPs.

Depends on your state I guess. Here in the bastion of conservatism we don't chide anyone for bringing such things in to work.

Our councils/districts still do SFF. However, it is so poorly managed our unit donates to our CO's food bank which is the second largest in Dallas.

Full disclosure, I live in the shadow of national. Everyone (it seems) at council and district is a WB-silver something-OA Vigil- LB-P wannabe. Maybe that is why our processes are a bit different, more by the book. Dunno.

We call troops who use them Webelos III. Most have 8-10 Scouts in a patrol with an ASM as lead. How is that not Webelos? Re/menu planning, an old SPL came up with an answer for our unit. He kept a watch and every 7 minutes said "You should be done with [insert name of meal], move on to the next meal." In our unit the patrols develop the base menu but it is the cook's job to fill out the detail (for his FC reqs around cooking), so 7 mins per meal works. Five mins mostly.

Our council AND national does. Case in point: We had a scout several years ago finish off a MB with an old MBC. This person was registered when the scout started and had remained a registered MBC for several years. The year the scout went to get sign off though, this person did not register...but they signed off any way. Yes, should have been caught by the subsequent folks who also signed off but they just assumed they were still registered. Three months later the scout passes SMC and BOR. National kicks back the paperwork because of the un-registered MBC. So someone somewhere *does* check...at least from time to time. Epilogue: We got it figured out. National was good enough to recognize this was not a mistake of the scout and allowed a current MBC to review and sign off after-the-fact. Eagle was awarded.

BSA cannot manage a simple website and database back-end for tracking training data. You can't really be surprised that they haven't made the quantum leap to an effective distance learning platform, can you (I suspect you are not really surprised)? Heck, their ScoutBook platform is marginal at best and is yet to go in to the cloud. BSA operates as if it is 2002, not 2016. Contrary to what Jessie J says, it *is* about the money, money, money.

They can, but a good SM will spread them out over time.

Good point. We had a lock in one time where 8 hour left over pizza and Trails End popcorn were the only things left. The boys literally "Hunger Gamed" for the last slice of pizza. The popcorn went in the bin.