Twocubdad

No, we don't have age limits, in the way you describe. However, as Scoutmaster, when a young Scout approaches me asking for a blue card to begin a merit badge, I will take that opportunity to guide the Scout toward a badge I feel is appropriate for him. In the case of a brand new, just-crossed-over Scout, I may counsel him to work on Tenderfoot or Second Class requirements instead of merit badges. Generally, a Scout's first MB will be First Aid or at summer camp his first year, Swimming. He may also take a craft MB or one of the basic nature MBs. We often tell boys Scouting is about the journey, not the destination. Sometimes we need to be more specific.

I don't think this is inappropriately focused on safety issues. The question was how to direct the JASM in his new "quasi-adult" role. If the JASM is concerned that the outing is going to crash and burn, his proper role is to make sure it doesn't literally crash and burn, or do so in such a way as to compromise health and safety. "Who did you give copies of your trek plan?" "Did everyone understand your instruction time with the water filter?" "How do you plan to bear-proof the camp?" "What resources are near by if you have an emergency?" All are reasonable questions for the responsible adults on a trip to ask, especially since the PL's attitude is they know everything already. (This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

May be a good time to explain the difference between failure and controlled failure. Help the JASM determine those areas which are part of the safety net those which are part of the game. His job is to make sure the safety net remains in place while the game goes on.

Is this for day camp or a pack overnighter? I've not seen anything like this for day camp. It's not part of the National Camping School program materials.

A few years ago at World Jamboree I had a conversation with one of my mates regarding the co-ed program. Interestingly, Barry, he made your same point that there is no more hanky-panky among male and female Scouts than in church or school group. His attitude, however, was dismissive, that it was no more or less of a problems.

No. Our district chairman doesn't even live in the council.

I'm in most agreement with BadenP. The word "worship" carries so much connotation and personal meaning, I think it is counterproductive in this sense. Each of us has an idea of how we should worship. I can understand how someone whose beliefs are outside the mainstream Judeo-Christian faiths would be offended, despite the best efforts to make the service accommodating. I can also see how someone with very strong beliefs, like John, would also be offended. Consequently, I try hard not to use the term "worship service" when I'm talking about a "Scouts' Own Service" -- although when you try, it's difficult to do. If you attend a Scouts' Own with the expectation that it will be a worship service, you're going to be disappointed. It's like attending a cooking demonstration expecting a full meal. The little taste you get here and there won't satisfy you. A Scout's Own should simply be a time for all Scouts to come together and show Reverence to the higher being in which they believe.

Yup. There is some grace time, but not two years. The first page of the recharter paperwork will have your official length of service, in months.

Yes

ABSOLUTELY NO restrictions on a ESLP benefitting the CO. In fact, it should be encouraged. And I disagree with SSS regarding an indirect benefit to the Scout troop. If the church owns and maintains the scout house and an Eagle candidate wants to paint the building, that's a perfectly acceptable ESLP, in my view. Painting the building is a church responsibility, so making that and ESLP benefits the church. The money the church saves by not paying professionals to paint the building can go to other church needs. On the other hand, a project is to build shelves in the troop storage room and that is a responsibility the troop would normally undertake itself, then no. The beneficiary there is the troop, not the church. There can be a lot of grey areas, but I would tend to lean very heavily in favor of allowing project for a CO, even if the unit receives some secondary benefit.

Oh come on, guys, that was funny! Is anyone reading this thread? Hello?

It is completely appropriate that an offering be taken during a Scouts own service. It is also completely appropriate that those taking the offering be held accountable for it. If the stated purpose of the offering is to produce the prayer cards, then ALL the money should go there. If the donations produce more cards than the camp can use, the chaplaincy program needs to find an appropriate use for the extra cards. Or if there is a surplus of cash, those in charge should select another worthwhile project to fund and announce that decision to the camp at it's earliest convenience. Sliding the extra cash off to general camp operations or the staff pizza fund isn't right. The donations weren't made to the camp. As Stosh suggests, giving may be an act of faith, but collecting an offering is an act of stewardship. When things don't seem right -- and particularly when most of the donors are children -- it is a furtherance of that stewardship to hold accountable those responsible for the money. As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust -- but verify."

I really do appreciate the fact you're sitting here. Your voice sounds so wonderful, but you're face don't look too clear. So barmaid bring a pitcher, another round or two. And honey -- WHAT? Is there some rule this has to be high-brow poetry?

How do you define "active"?

Not sure how an anonymous tip works in this situation. Did they leave a note on your bunk? A phone call talking through a hankerchief? And hypothetically, where do you think you're going to get a drug dog. The police don't just loan the dogs out, willy-nilly. Either you involve the police or you don't. If I have reasonable information, I'm going to act on. I'm not the police or a court officer. I'm not concerned with criminal procedure or rules of evidence. I'm concerned with the safety of the Scouts. Kids know that at school, adults are handcuffed by all sorts of rules. They know if they keep their mouths shut and don't admit to anything, they have to be caught red-handed to get into any sort of serious trouble. I have no such constraints. Consequently, I'd deal with the problem directly and schedule a meeting with the Scout and his parents. The conversation would be very short and one sided and go something like this: "I have been told -- and by whom is unimportant -- that you may have a problem with drug use and there is some concern that you may bring drugs with you on the trip. I have no idea if this is true or not and I am not here to accuse you of anything. It's not my place to investigate this. Neither is it my problem to solve. This is an issue for your family to discuss and solve among yourselves. "BUT, I am here to tell you that once we are on the trip, if I find any evidence of drug use or possession by anyone on the trip, it will be turned over to the nearest law enforcement agency. As the adult in charge, I will authorize the police to search everyone and everything thoroughly. If you are arrested, you will sit in jail until your parents bail you out. Even if you are not arrested, you will be off the trip immediately and your parents will be responsible for picking you up." My sons attend a summer music camp run by a retired military guy. This is basically his approach. The school attracts folks from middle school through retirees. Occassionally some of the college-aged kids think they can get away with having alcohol or pot with them. Every couple years he'll have someone hauled away by the local sheriff. That pretty much vaccinates the camp for the next few years. On a high adventure trip, actually following through on this may vary depending on logisitcs and the cooperation of local law enforcement. But if the kids know there is a high cost of getting caught, they would have to be pretty stupid or have a pretty bad habid to try anything under those circumstances.

Crossramwedge, I assume you're asking as an interested parent or Scouter, since by now all the participants have completed training and shakedowns and have been trained on meal prep. There will be some "real" cooking, but not a lot. The equipment list for each patrol emphasizes catering steam trays for heating up the meals. Consequently, we're assuming there will be a lot of heat-and-serve meals. The menu for the shakedown weekend (which was provided by national) included canned beef stew and green beans for one dinner and burgers and baked beans for the other. The stew and beans had to be heated and, of course, the burgers cooked. The bigger job was clean up. Personally, if the beef stew had come in a disposable aluminum tray to be heated in the steam tray, it would have been okay with me. One less pot to clean. As for details, a complete menu and food prep guide will be distributed to all the boys with their first food pickup Monday afternoon. Now if you're looking at this more theoretically, the current meal system works pretty well. No one goes to jamboree to spend time in the campsite chopping veggies for a scratch-made stew. Frankly, the way jamboree is set up and how the program is run, cooking and cleaning is just overhead. The real programs take place out of the campsites. Working as a patrol is given its due, considering that these are contingent troops, and not regular patrols. Patrols are required to set up duty rosters and work together to prepare meals. Each patrol has a large table and sits down together for grace, the meal and conversation. Seems to be a pretty good application of the 80/20 rule.

Don't care. The net effect on my end is the same.

I'm surprised to see that most of my training is there going back to Cub Scout stuff. But like John, WB is missing as is all my trips to National Camping School. I would assume Region (which administers NCS) has the same ability to input to ScoutNet as the council.

It's fine if it works for you. Our troop's terms rum six months starting in Feb. and August, but there's a lot of flexibility in the number of terms one serves. We've had a tradition that the SPL has the option on a second term, if he chooses to continue serving (some do, some don't). Other troop offices are appointed so it's up to the SPL to decide if he wants to appoint someone for a second term. Generally the Troop Guides and the ASPL responsible for them agree to a year-long term, to see the new Scouts through their first year. Patrol officers are elected by the patrols and there are no term limits. Whatever the patrols decide.... A year is a long time for a kid. My experience is after a year in the same job, most are ready for either a new challenge or a break.

I don't even get the magazine. My son was given a life membership when he received his Eagle more than a year ago. Neither of us have ever received the magazine. The telemarketing company they sold my name to that sells the Eagle Scout alumni directories does a great job. Those guys are relentless! They're not very good a compiling directories, however. One rainy afternoon I set out to find look up the names of all the fellow Eagles I know. I found about one of three names. /sarcasm off I've yet to see a benefit of membership either for myself, my son or our troop. I know of no active involement by the NESA in our council.

Someone needs to teach those boys a lesson! You know, like putting a flaming bag of dog poo on this coot's front porch.

Basement -- let me say thank you for making Scouting so affordable for the boys in your troop. At $360 for the year, including recharter and summer camp, that's less than $1 per day for Scouting. Rather than being beat up over the cost of your program, you should be pleased at it's affordability. What are these kids eating at home? You're telling me they eat for less than $3 per meal? Not to be a cold-hearted SOB about it, but parents have an obligation to feed their children. If you can't afford $15 to feed them for the weekend, how are you feeding them the rest of the week? Three bucks a meal isn't a bad deal. Sure, costs for mutiples can add up, but this is a surprise to these these families? Do grocery stores and restaurants give them quantity discounts? Who's going to watch the ads, shop the sales, and manage the troop pantry? Will each patrol do this or will this turn into another adult/troop hijack of a patrol function? I have no doubt that our patrols waste probably a quarter of their patrol budgets every campout due to over-buying, buying food to satisfy sound menu planning that the boys don't ultimately eat, and throwing away half-jars of condiments and other things that parent's don't trust after a full weekend in the woods. (My wife has threatened bodily injury if I bring another half-jar of ketchup home.) But I see that as a cost of the patrol method and of young boys trying their hand at menu planning and shopping for the first time. If we "adulterate" that process, is it worth the two or three buck per boy we save? Are the boys learning to cook, clean, take care of themselves and work together while eating cold cereal to save money? And while you may save money clipping coupons for the troop, you're really converting dollars for volunteer hours. Even if someone is willing to take this on, is this the best use of that particular troop resource? I used to work with a guy who got the camp a great deal on imperfect baked goods at a local commercial bakery. He would get up at 4:00 am, drive 30 minutes each way to save the camp $20 bucks on cinnamon rolls. THE HECK WITH THAT! My time is more valuable than that, especially at 4am! Except for church youth groups (which don't typically do a lot of off-site activities) I know of no other organization which is as affordable as Scouting or which goes to the lengths Scouting does to ensure that all boys can participate regardless of their families' financial situation.

Great. We've got people with the time to figure this out, but can't get the medical reviews done.

My hunch, and it's just a hunch, is that we will hear "code red, blue, black, yellow,...." whatever and adjust activities accordingly. The criteria for that decision is background. When the man says the 5k run is cancelled due to the heat, it's cancelled. Only because I have a copy of the medical guides and took the time to read it did I get into a deeper level of detail. When I read that anything above 90 degrees WGBT is a black flag day, my ears went up. Since June 1 we only had four sub-90 degree days. I simply wanted to know if that is an apples-to-apples comparison (apparently it's not.)

We may get to vote for our judges, sheriff or DA, but really doesn't matter when you get arrested. The problem is that once the SM had handled the situation, that the other adults got into an argument over what protocol should be. At that point the protocol is you either respect the decisions of the guy appointed to make them, or you apply for job yourself. Now I don't really know the nature of the "argument." Maybe it was an academic discussion over how they would have handled it IF they were SM. But if it sounded anything like second-guessing the SM, they were out of line. I'm not saying that an instructive critique at the next committee meeting is out of line, and the committee should give the SM -- especially a new one -- feedback as to their expectations for dealing with such things. But in the middle of a firefight, 600 miles from home isn't the place to do it. Frankly, the SM got it about right. The father was pretty cool to defer the the SM. But as SM, with the father right there, I would have handled the immediate situation and turned it over to the father fairly quickly. Had the father not been on the trip, I would have involved him or the mom as soon as we returned home.