Twocubdad

Whether hazing or a simple prank, how do those actions hold up to being Friendly and Kind? Although very minor, I count is as hazing. (And no, Beav, not Hazing as defined in the statutes, but hazing as defined by our troop.) It plays off the disparity in age, size or stature of the boys and that some of the younger guys may still have some fears of camping. If it's a fun thing to do with the Webelos, why isn't it fun to pull on the SPL? Even if the younger guys are on to it, it's still teaching them this is acceptable behavior. Classic slippery slope.

The leaders of the local occupy group are a couple of 50-something guys with long, grey ponytails who seem disappointed they couldn't get down with the people in Chicago in '68 because they were only 10 years old at the time. Their sense of moral outrage at the One Percenters has now drifted to suing each other for rights to produce Occupy logo t-shirts. Kinda makes you miss Abbie Hoffman, huh?

Sounds like our council jamboree committee's process for "interviewing" jamboree leadership. About 75% of the given time is consumed by the the committee members talking.

What Cub Scout Positions Have You Held? All of them.

Even worse are the guys who wear their merit badge sash tucked over their belt so they can wear the OA sash over their shoulder. Of course you don't want to "waste" any merit badges, so you'll see guys with the MB sash hanging down past their knees so that all the badges show. I attribute it to poor upbringing -- Scouting-wise, that is.

Actually, we pulled out an old camp wagon which is missing wheel. Since the new policy only mentions 1,2 and 4-wheeled carts, we're good to go!

No OA experience, but troops seem to ebb and flow like that. I see it more on the micro level than macro, but given enough time I'm sure the ups and downs of any organization are the same. We've had a run of good leaders over the past few years, but hit a bump recently with one more interested in the title than the work. It happens. When I became SM another SM with decades of experience told me his biggest challenge was judging the ability of the youth leadership and throttling his and other adults' involvement based on the abilities and needs of the current youth leaders. I think that's a pretty good insight. But given your description (and especially with your thread about the OA adult group) I would be concerned that instead of letting the youth lead and being available to step in and help when needed, your adults are running things and dolling out responsibilities to the youth as they see fit. Default should be the youth are leading with exceptions made for current conditions, not the other way around.

No. Nothing says parents must be removed from their son's participation in Scouting. Parents' are responsible for raising their children. Scouting is one tool parents have in helping them raise their sons. It is wholly appropriate for parents to engage their son Scouting-related activities OUTSIDE troop and patrol programs. We are ALL -- parents and Scout leaders -- trying to teach and train our boys to be of good character. Why in the world should parents not help with that? Some of my greatest successes have been with Scouts where the troop leaders and parents have actively worked to gether to reinforce the lessons between Scouts and home. Certainly, parents cross the line. We have thousands and thousands of threads on that. But every instance you mentioned included the pharase "with him". If that changes to "for him" or "made him" or "told him", then you may want to rethink.

Interestingly, this weekend we were working with one of our Scouts on a Eagle project. (The only safety incident to report was that of a 16-y.o. Scout using an ax in an unsafe manner. Remarkably, we simple-minded non-professional safety folks had the presence of mind to stop him, address the problem and continue with the work.) So anyway, one of the dads is head of industrial safety at a large mill. I figured his opinion on the new rules would be interesting so I showed him a copy of the policy. "This is great!" he said. "Really?" "Oh, yeah, it's terrific. I may use this at work." "What?" "I really like the chart. It's a good way of laying this out -- easy to understand," he said. "I'm talking about the actual rules," I said. "Oh. No. That's the stupidest d--- thing I've ever read. No paint rollers? Really?" So kudos to the BSA graphics department. Great job folks!

Ah, the basis of the Nanny State -- we must protect the ignorant masses from themselves. Who the heck said anything about roofing a church steeple? We're talking about building park benches and picnic tables! And do you believe that these guidelines are sufficient to protect an 18+ Venture crew to work on a 150' steeple? You've banned half my troop from using garden carts to haul leaves from the church yard and your arguement is against roofing church steeples?So more questions: As to the calls for another training, videos, etc. so do we grow our own qualified construction personnel and make every service project a vocational training program? Perhaps create a framework to vet qualified supervision for project oversight?" Are you familiar with the BSA programs regarding shooting sports? Aquatics? Climbing/COPE? I would venture to guess that these sorts of service projects are just as integeral to the program as are the three I listed. (It wouldn't be that difficult to ask a handful of councils to track the numbers on building-oriented EPs or those which use the tools listed.) I absolutely would LOVE to have a month-long program theme for the troop on safe usage of various tools and equipment. A one-page poster of standard safety reminders would be a great thing to have at a service project. (Sweet 16 of Service Project Safety?) How about an outline for the youth leader to use for his three-minute safety briefing? And I have no problem with more in-depth training for the top-level adults responsible for the program. I bet most troops have more folks with experience in the construction trades than they do leaders with the requisite experience for climbing or aquatics. I know our unit has six dads with building and/or industrial experience which would be right in line with such a program. Heck, I've got two guys qualified to help develop and teach the program! What would be wrong with a program modeled after shooting sports and aquatics? Same three levels -- a two or three day course designed for the top folks in the council running the program; a one-day supervisors' certification class, just like RSO training; and online "Work-On Safety" awarareness training for unit leaders. But it sounds to me, especially from your last post, you would just as soon ban all such work from the program. Instead of killing it with a thousand cuts, go ahead and ban it. But first come up with a plan to replace the vast number of Eagle Projects that will eliminate and a plan to pay hire contractors to replace the thousands and thousands of hours of maintenance work performed by troops and Ordeal candidates at council camps. Sorry, gotta go. The troop has a service project this afternoon to install mulch in the gardens at the church. Since the pitchforks and wheelbarrows are out, I guess we'll be carrying the mulch in styrofoam cups. (And by the way Richard, I do appreciate your willingness to get involved in the debate here. An honest exchange of opinions can only benefit the program.)

Richard -- where you're going to get the argument is in the definition of "hazardous work." A wheelbarrwo? Post hole digger? Honestly? I suppose now Eagle candidates will have to add DOB to the sign in sheets and monitor the work to make sure no 13-y-o uses an banned garden cart. My observations over that years is the more adults involved in a project, the less youth lead the project becomes. Even if you have a strong youth leading the effort, his job turns from leading the project to trying to negotiate leadership with the adults. I'm a contractor. I can tell you the most important guy on a framing or carpentry crew is the cut man (that is, the guy running the saw.) He's the control point. All decisions get run through him. "17 and an eighth. Are you sure?" An adult in that slot becomes the defacto leader. Our council EP review committee has created a strong bias for construction project. (I've always guessed someone on the committee was in the lumber business.) Many of the projects with which I've been involved would be substantially reduced in scope without the use of power tools. Over the years we've developed what I believe is a very reasonable approach to power tool use. We encourage our Scouts with construction-oriented projects to plan for one "cut day" on which they get a small group of older scouts (generally meaning 14 and above) who work closely with myself and a one or two other experienced carpenter types. In our troop, these guys are long-time scouters who know how to step back and allow the boys to lead. With a scout-to-adult ratio or 2- or 3-to-1, we're able to let the Eagle make all the leadership decisions AND toach to boys to safely use the power equipment. "Put your right hand on the saw, put your left hand way over here...." I'd much rather do this than teach Whittlin' Chip to a bunch of new scouts. Instead of this silly list of Don't, how about determining the best practices of the troops who are using tools safely and developing that into a program. And I still want to hear an explaination on the carts. That just baffles me.

I always like to read the comments at the bottom of articles like this. Interesting insight. A couple of the local folks who were at the meeting posted that they didn't feel the young man was out of line. So we send the kid in there to learn something about the democratic process, he actually learn something and decides to participate in the process. For this the SE feels the need to apologize? Did any of the commissioners REALLY think the boy was speaking as on behalf of the Boy Scouts? Come on. At best this is political correctness run amok. At worst it's the SE sucking up to the local politicians. The SE was dead wrong. His job is to help boys become involved citizens, not sit in judgement when they do.

Just back from my daily trip to Lowe's and took a minute to look at the large, flashy Pinewood Derby display sponsored by Dremel. It's been in the stores for months, but I've not really paid much attention. I wasn't sure if it were a generic, "pine car racer" deal or an official, BSA approved Pinewood Derby deal, which it is. Can't wait to see what happens to BSA's licensing agreement when Dremel finds out their product is banned for use by Cubs. Anyway, Moose, I think you're over-thinking this. If the troop allows Scouts to use scout account money for EPs, the kid shows up with a receipt from the lumber yard and the troop cuts a check. Simple. The council has nothing to do with it. Frankly, I'd tell them to pound sand -- they no longer have the ability to make rules like that. The new rules call for the troop (or the beneficiary) to hold the money raised for EPs anyway. What's the difference between that and using a Scout account? If you don't want to get into a spat with the advancement committee, have your Scouts say their parents will be paying for the materials, which is likely true. In most cases a parent will pay for the materials. That they subsiquently get reimbursed from the Scout's troop account is no one's business. I also think you're off-base about the contribution part. If in a Scout's proposal his parents pledge $300 toward the project but the actual amount comes in below $300, I don't think the parents have an obligation to make a donation to the beneficiary for the difference. I would consider the parents' participation on a "not to exceed" basis. Neither is it necessary for them to write a $300 check up front -- they simply cover the actual cost of the materials at the time they are purchased. None of which has anything to do with the Scout's troop account. My reading of the regs, and what we have been told by our council training committee, is the money only has to go into the troop account or turned over to the beneficiary if it is raised publicly, through car washes or donut sales or a similar event which trades on the name of the BSA or the beneficiary. If a project is being funded privately (i.e.: by the Scout, his family, his troop account, or the troop in general) I'd let the money stay with those donors and ask them to only pay for purchases as they are made. This whole area seems to be a weakness of the new policies, IMO. Seems like a case where BSA tried to solve a problem by dumping it on the units or beneficiaries. I wonder how often there was really a problem of a Scout misappropriating money for his EP? And what's going to happen when a kid turns over the proceeds from his fundraisers to the beneficiary which unfortunately experiences "a cash flow problem" about the time the Scout wants to finish his project?

As a general rule, Scouts aren't held accountable for adult mistakes, so I do think it is worth persuing an appeal. I do agree with you and the others that you have some level of responsibiliy, too. To what degree? Is this more your responsibility or your Scoutmaster? Hard to say. That's the purpose of the appeal process.

A month or so out from the election, I send a letter to all the eligible scouts in troop and tell them if they want to be on the ballot, they need to meet with me. Before doing so I ask them to talk to the other OA members in the troop and/or go online and find out what the OA is all about, what OA members do and what the time commitment will bel. I also ask that they make two commitments: 1) is to follow through and complete the Ordeal; and, 2)to attend at least two OA functions over the coming year, one of which is conclave or fellowship, the major fun events. I tell them if they do those two thing and decide the OA really isn't for them, then fine. At that point if they're not interested in participating, then move on. My interest is determining if they are really interested in the OA or if they're just looking at another resume stuffer. Completing the Ordeal and committing to two events simply gives them a reasonable look at the OA so they can decide if it's for them or not.

The thing which bothers me as much as anything is I THOUGHT BSA, at least on the program side of things, was moving to a more rational apporach to evaluating risk, developing program materials to mitigate risk and opening the program to activities like ATV and PWC use. Unfortunately, this load of houey looks like we're headed for more lists of mindless Thou Shall Nots. How much better would a real safety program be which TEACHES the scouts how to use these tools and provides adults to tools to provide that education and safely supervise their use? Between troop service projects, conservations projects, OA work day and Eagle projects, I'll bet Scouts spend more time using these tools than they spend rock climbing. As a life skill, are our boys more likely to use a lawn mower or go rock climbing. But compare this finger wagging approach to tool use to the enormous program we have for teaching climbing safety.

Agree that you need to let the troop leadership take it from here, but I would not be afraid to follow up. If you were the SM and asking, my advice would be to take a hard line. My experience is this junk is easy to get started in a troop and really tough to stamp out. I would seriously consider some term of suspension -- even if it's just one campout -- simply to demonstrate the level of seriousness with which you take such behavior.

You guys have GOT to follow these links and read this insanity. Here are two more direct links: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf for the tool non-usage chart, and http://www.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-027.pdf for the service project over-analyzer. 16 to use a leaf blower? 18 for a scroll saw? This is nuts. Where's RichardB? Isn't this his department?

My advice to your guy would be to sit down with his committee chairman and get his input. The advancement chairman serves as part of the troop committee and reports to the CC. He needs to express his concerns to the CC and see where the CC stands. That's more than just a chain of command thing. The AC seems to have a clear understanding of the new & old SM's ideas of how the troop program should run. If the CC shares the SM's point of view, your AC needs to decide if he/she can support the troop's way of running it's program. If the AC wants to work through the troop structure to change things, that's his/her choice. If not, it may be best for the AC to step down and/or move on to a program which better aligns with his point of view.

That the Scout has met the requirements for Life or not is a moot point. As others have noted, the issue is dfolson's response at a UC. Sounds that you've already been in touch with the SM, but my suggestion would have been to call the CC and say, "hey, I want to give you a heads-up regarding a phone call I got from one of your parents. Is there anything I can do for you to help with this?" I agree with Beav -- you polling the BOR members is overstepping your authority. That's the job of the troop committe to handle. It's their board of review. This really isn't an issue for the SM to solve. Now as a SM, if I've got a board of review slapping one back in my face like this, you bet I'm going to be involved. And, ultimately, if I'm this far out of sync with my committee, it's time for them to find a SM who shares their understanding of the program (as wrong as they are about it.) Anyone who has been a unit leader for long has dealt with a BOR going off reservation. The BOR needs training and perhaps advice from the district advancement chairman on advancement policies. You need to help make those resources available to the troop, not drilling into the problem itself.

Note this is obviously written from the Clan MacLaren perspective and is not part of the official BSA insignia guide. From www.ClanMaclaren.org : -------- Wood Badgers: Highland Dress and the Boy Scout Uniform By Ted Severe, Wood Badge Co-Ordinator, Mid-Atlantic Region, CMSNA A question was recently posed to the Clan MacLaren Society of North America, Ltd.: How can one wear Highland dress AND the Boy Scout uniform? This is an easy one to answer: The Highland dress Boy Scout uniform would be official Boy Scout uniform from the waist up and Highland Dress from the waist down with a few tweaks. You Wood Badgers know what makes up the Boy Scout uniform after all of those uniform inspections during your Wood Badge course and the constant reminder to set the example. Its when you add Highland dress to the equation that things get different. So here goes, from top to bottom: Headgear Wear either your Scout campaign hat or a Scottish bonnet. If you wear a Scottish bonnet, you have two choices: the Balmoral bonnet (looks like a beret with a big pom-pom [its called a toorie in Scotland]) or the Glengarry bonnet (if youve been in Scouting long enough, this is similar to the old overseas cap Scout hat, long gone). If you go with either bonnet, you have two more choices: diced or non-diced. Dicing is the band around the bottom edge of the bonnet that looks like a checkerboard pattern. More often the dicing is a combination of red, white and black squares. Personally, I prefer the non-diced plain Glengarry and Balmoral (I wear both as well as a campaign hat, but only one at a time). On either variety of bonnet, there is a ribbon cockade on the left side to which you add a clan crest badge. For all members of the Clan MacLaren Society (kinsmen and Wood Badge), this would be the MacLaren clan crest badge. It is usually silver-colored and looks like a round strap-and-buckle with the Clan Chiefs motto, Creag an tuirc (which translates to the Boars Rock, the traditional clan gathering place in Balquhidder, Scotland) on the strap. In the center of the strap-and-buckle is a lions head in profile looking to the left on a twisted rope-like device called a wreath. The lion has a crown on his head with four points. On either side of the lions head are laurel branches. If the clan crest were in color, the lions head would be black, the crown would be gold and the laurel branches their normal green color and the wreath would be red and gold (alternating twists). One can also change the black ribbon cockade to red and gold to match the main colors in the Chiefs coat of arms or one could use a small (approximately 3 inch by 3 inch square) of MacLaren tartan fabric on which one pins the clan crest badge to the bonnet. An alternative to the MacLaren clan crest badge would be a large Boy Scout First Class rank emblem pin or, if you can find one, an old metal Scout Hat Badge. You can find these old metal hat badges on Ebay and get lucky enough to win an auction for one for about $15.00-$25.00. Dont jump for the first one that you see because they turn up fairly often. These Scout hat badges are similar in style to the U.S. First Class badge. The most common ones seen are British and Canadian. Scout uniform shirt with all of the insignia in the right places as per Boy Scout regulations. Be sure to wear your Wood Badge Beads, neckerchief and woggle in the customary manner. If you are the recipient of Scouting awards (Silver Beaver, adult religious awards, etc.), these are certainly to be worn as the occasion merits. Kilt MacLaren tartan is the first choice for your kilt. Here you have choices in tartan fabric: Modern colors; ancient colors, weathered colors or dress tartan. Once youve picked out your tartan fabric, then you get to decide how the kilt is pleated. You have two choices here: the first choice is whether, from the back, you want to see the sett of the tartan (the tartan pattern itself) once the kilt is pleated or the stripe, where a particular vertical stripe is seen at each pleat. Please refer to any Highland merchandise catalog where kilts are offered. They show you photographically what pleating to sett or stripe looks like. The kilt is not an inexpensive item, the lowest price for an 8-yard 13-oz. kilt is about $375.00 and, depending on the vendor, the price goes up from there. Please shop around to get the best price and, believe it or not, kilts are less expensive to have made in the United States than in Scotland and they are using Scottish fabric! If you have Scottish ancestry other than MacLaren, you can wear your kilt in your familys tartan. Kilt Pin You do need one. Its main purpose is to use its weight to help hold down the corner of the apron of your kilt. It is only pinned through the front apron approximately two inches in from the fringe of the apron and about three inches above the bottom edge of the kilt. You can find these through the many Highland dress vendors. They start around $20.00 and go up from there. There is also a do-it-yourself route: go to a good fabric store and check in the notions section for a package of two skirt pins. The manufacturer should be Dritz. The cost of the package of two pins is about $2.00. If it looks like a great big safety pin, youve got the wrong package. The wire making the pin will be very heavy. Its all one piece of wire. This pin can be worn as is for a very traditional kilt pin. If you are handy with silver solder, consider adding a coin to the top of the pin for decoration. If you are a Beaver, use a Canadian nickel. If you are an Eagle, you could use a pre-50 state quarter, a Susan B. Anthony dollar or a Sacajawea golden dollar. For those who are Buffalos, you can use an old buffalo nickel (1913-1937), the 2005 Jefferson nickel with the buffalo, the 2005 Kansas quarter or the 2006 North Dakota quarter. If you go this particular route, try to get as a coin in as pristine condition as possible (it may be bit dodgy on the old buffalo nickels you should be able to get these in a coin shop ask for ones that have the date worn off the cost should then be minimal). If you are interested in this variety of kilt pin with the coin top, let me know. Ive made several. I currently have two that I can wear, one with the 2005 buffalo nickel and the other with the 2006 South Dakota buffalo quarter. Sporran This is your pocket since kilts traditionally are not made with pockets (I have seen a couple though, so they do exist but probably add quite a bit to the price of a kilt if you can find a kiltmaker who would do that particular extra work). Start out with a sporran made from leather. Good quality sporrans can be gotten starting around $50.00. If you are a leatherworker or have a friend who does leatherwork, you can make your own. You will also need a very narrow strap to hold your sporran around your body so that it hangs in front. The strap can be leather or even black nylon webbing with a plastic fastex-style buckle (like a very long accessory strap for your backpack available in good camping supply stores). You can even make small belt loops (they look like two keyholders with leather loops and snap hooks to hold the sporran) and suspend your sporran from your belt! Belt Your Scout belt will work. You may wish to consider a leather Scout belt with the Wood Badge buckle with the axe and log. If youve been to Philmont Scout Ranch, your Philmont belt and buckle will do fine also. Stockings You again you have several choices. Your Boy Scout long stockings with the red tops will do but you should add garters with flashes or tabs that stick out from under the folded over top of the stocking. Again, if youre handy you can make your own garters and flashes. You can get long wool stockings from the Highland dress vendors. You can also go to sporting goods stores in soccer season and obtain single color (no embroidered sports logos, please) soccer socks for one third to one half the cost of wool Scottish stockings. Suggested colors would be navy blue, dark green, or black. For Highland evening dress, the stockings should be white or ivory. Skean dhu This is the small fixed-blade knife that one sees tucked in the top of the stocking when wearing Highland dress. It is definitely an optional item. If you are wearing Highland dress to a church or synagogue, please leave your skean dhu at home. It is considered to be a weapon and weapons have no place in a church or synagogue. Shoes Be sensible on this. Wear the kinds of shoes that you would with your uniform as the occasion demands. One last item would be a good walking stick. There are many varieties out there from adjustable metal ones to the handmade. They are easy and fun to make. There you have it. Hopefully, we will see many more of our Wood Badge members attending CMSNA and Highland events in their Highland Scout uniforms. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch with me by any of the means listed: Mr. Ted Severe Wood Badge Co-Ordinator Mid-Atlantic Region Clan MacLaren Society of North America, Ltd. 3219 McElderry Street Baltimore MD 21205-2819 Phone: 410-276-2686, evenings after 6:00 pm EST/EDT, answering machine on 24/7 Email: severefamily@verizon.net

I think you've said your piece and the response from the leaders was telling. Now drop it. No good is going to come if you turn into the pack nag on the issue. These folks are adults and can make their own decisions as to what is right or wrong. Continue to provide the tracking sheets, especially to the new volunteers, and let them know when Roundtable is scheduled. If this part of the pack culture is going to change, it will be slowly as the new folks come on board. If anyone legitimately earns an award, make a big deal of presenting it. But you absolutely do not have to participate in awarding any unearned knots.

I think you are looking at this the right way. You are certainly right to be concerned with the example being set for your son and disappointed in the program -- new parent or not, should be concerned with the quality of the program. Any you are absolutely right when you wrote, "This was the big difference between Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts... 'Son, it is now up to you to chart your own path and take responsibility for your own stuff.' " Okay, so let him do it. Help him learn from this and guide him to a moral response. Then let him deal with it. If the badge has already been processed and set to be presented, YOUR SON needs to go to the SM and explain that he didn't earn the badge and shouldn't receive it. On the other hand, your son is NOT responsible for fixing the program (although a scout telling his SM he is being given an award he didn't earn should have that effect). And be there to support him. As a SM and a parent, I would be perfectly okay with you literally standing behind your son for this conversation. I don't underestimate how tough this may be for some boys, and his parent's support is important. And if there happen to be any adult follow=up conversations which need to happen, you're ready to go. If you want to follow up with the SM about the overall process, fine. As DG98 mentions, MBC are technically district volunteers, but in many units, they are unit volunteers who just happen to have a district registration card. It would be helpful if you knew the situation in your troop. If this counselor is a long-time, trusted ASM with the troop, your approach needs to be different from that if the counselor is a relatively unknown district volunteers. I understand what DG is saying, but this IS part of the Scoutmaster's responsibility. He is the one who assigns Scouts to particular counselors and needs to be aware of what is going on with this counselor. If the counselor is really just a district volunteer, the SM can very simply stop sending scouts to this guy. If it is a troop volunteer, it's a bit stickier problem. That's not your problem, but as a new parent, it would be good to get the lay of the land before charging in.

Schiff's got the idea. The mission of the BSA is to teach ethical decision making. While this isn't the way we want to see ethics being taught, it does present you with a teaching moment. A number of years ago my older son had a similar experience. At a troop meeting he approach the fitness MB counselor about STARTING the merit badge. About 20 minutes later, the counselor tracked him down and handed him a signed blue card indicating he had COMPLETED the badge. He brought me the card and asked what he should do. (Now at this point, let's stop to note that him recognizing the situation and asking for advice was a BIG point in his favor.) I asked him what he thought he should do. He thought for a minute and said he could hold on to the blue card, finish the requirements, then turn the card in. I suggested that was a good idea, but would be better if he checked off the requirements with another counselor before turning the card in. (Of course I understood the other counselor would complete another blue card, but that's beside the point.) Talk with your son. Make sure he understands the big picture. If you feel you want to address this with the troop, I think you are certainly justified in doing so.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

So here's something that never happens on the forums -- I'm changing my mind. To my knowledge we only have a couple "Parents of" units around here. The only one I'm familiar with is -- I think -- incorporated. I know at one point they were trying to get non-profit status, but I don't know if they did, so they're at least putting that much thought and effort into the process. I still have no problem with groups like that and think councils should be working with folks like that to shore them up, not getting rid of them. But what you're describing are non-existant COs -- just a couple leaders signing the form and pretending there is an organization behind them. Yeah, that needs to get fixed. Maybe it would help if we had better terminology to differentiate between legitimate, organized "Parents/Friends of" organizations and units which are essentially self-chartered or chartered to individuals.