Twocubdad

They come and go for all sorts of reasons. Thinking back on the ones I can remember Incoming -- #1 Had basically dropped out of another troop and a friend convinced him to join us where he served as SPL and made Eagle. #2 Went to Philmont with our crew and discovered he really liked our program. #3 & #4 Old troop was having leadership problems and being run like a Webelos III den. They wanted a more traditional program. (One has since left, the other is one of my strongest Scouts and will make Eagle soon.) #5 Came to us because many of his friends were in our troop. Outgoing -- #1 Left because our old SM and COR explained that he wasn't going to be an Eagle in our troop before age 13. This is the same Scout as #2 above. He left, found the grass wasn't really greener and came back. #2 As a young Scout, this kid was really goofy and somewhat a discipline problem. As he matured, he really tried to turn things around, but had been labeled the troop "goat" by a number of the Scouts. He really needed a fresh start and transferred and has since made Eagle at his new troop. This was a situation where I really felt transferring was a good move for the Scout. #3 Was one of two boys I've worked with who were simply too immature for Boy Scouts. He moved to a much more adult-led troop that does a lot of hand holding, merit badge classes every week, etc. I don't think he was there too long, either. #4 Family issues which would take pages to explain.... Made Eagle. #5 & #6 Discipline issues. They read the writing on the wall and decided to leave before being asked to. Don't let the door catch you in the butt.... #7 The brother of #6. #8 Purely and simply shopped for an easy Eagle and found one. I can't really say how much was Scout driven vs. parent driven. Obviously parents are involved in a decision to change troops, but I really can't say to what extent. I do think it safe to say it's never 100% one or the other. If I were to draw conclusion from this list, I would say there are two types of transfers -- 1) those who are simply looking for a better fitting program. They were pretty good Scouts in their first troop and tend to do very well in the second. And 2) kids who just aren't into it and are looking for an easier road. They don't tend to do any better at the second troop. This applies to both the incoming and outgoing Scouts. Kinda like everything else in the world, huh?

The toughest part -- for me at least -- is holding the patch where I want it while sewing it on. I've learned to get them exactly where I want them, staple them in place then sew them on. You gotta remember to take all the staples out or you'll catch grief from folks who think the patches are only stapled on. Second, don't try to sew through the plastic part of the patch (needles tend to go through fingers more easily than plastic-backed patches). You only need to catch the edge of the whipping around the outside of the patch.

I really don't see an issue with the timing of the work vs. fundraising. If someone contributes to a project and then sees the Scout continuing ro raise money for the project, I think the vast majority of folks will assume he simply needed more money for the project -- not that he's raising money for personal gain. What if a Scout were borrowing the money form his own college fund? Or what if the local lumber yard set up a credit account for the Scout and he's paying off the charges? In our troop the Scouts have discovered that the council's Camp Card sale is a pretty easy to raise money for a project. But that only occurs in the spring. It hasn't come up yet, but if a Scout wants to use the camp cards as a fundraiser does that mean he has to put off this project until after the sale? Why? And keep in mind there is nothing which prevents the parents for simply stroking a check and making a "donation" to the project. That Scout Mom's son wants to call it a loan and pay them back is a positive step.

Moose -- I use the term "scouthours" not to exclude non-scouts (I know anyone can help) rather to differentiate between an hour of labor by a 12-y.o. and a actual worker. I'm a contractor. One of my means of judging the scope of a project is to estimate the labor required if I hired an actual subcontractor to do the job. If one of my subs could do it in a day or two with two or three workers -- or about 20 or 30 "manhours" -- that's probably a decent Eagle project and will come in at about 125 to 150 "scouthours." I'm just glad I don't have to pay the Scouts by the hour!

In our troop, projects are usually around 150 "Scout-hours". It's funny to me that when you talk man-hours to most advancement committee types, they usually go into appoplexy. "THERE IS NO REQUIRED MANHOURS." Yeah, but that is the metric the world uses for understanding the scope of a project. My standard pitch on project scope is this: you need to be in the 150 manhour range, but more importantly is the project be of sufficient scope for you to demonstrate leadership. Rule of thumb (and this may not apply to every project) is projects should require multiple work days to accomplish.

Yeah, I think we've covered the topic of whose project it is and I believe Scout-Mom when she says she hears us. Besides, her son HAS gone to his troop leaders and is getting fuzzy answers to his questions. With that in mind, is it not reasonable for a Scout to ask a parent? Isn't that an appropriate use of resources? Granted, at this point I would prefer to see the parent directing the Scout to various resources (like Scouter.com) and the Scout doing the research. But I'm not sure any of the boys in our troop -- or many of the adults for that matter -- in that situation know enough about the district or council structure to know who to talk with outside the troop. It would be nice if the troop leaders gave him an honest "I don't know, but call this guy on the district advancement committee." But to your OP, I would suggest to your son that he simply go with the input he has, write up the proposal the way he wants and submit it. Worst thing that happens is the review committee says no. If he lists his work days in July and his fundraisers in August, so what? There is no prescribed order for the work. I would advise hime to include a note explaining that due to scheduling issues, his family would front the money for the project. I don't think there is a problem, PR or otherwise, with the plan. Whether or not the money being raise is going "for the project" or "repaying the parents" is just a matter of semantics.

This year, for the first time, I had two families who came up Friday night and brought siblings along. It's not uncommon to get a handful of dads who will come for part of the day Friday then drive us home Saturday morning, but we've never had the siblings. One of my ASM really had his necker in a knot over it, but I didn't personally think they were in the way. They arrived after the day's activities Friday, ate a burger at the dining hall, watched the closing campfire, then went home Saturday. To me the biggest issue was there parents were there supposedly to drive boys home, but with the mom, dad and two kids in the car, all they could take home was their own son. Maybe that was the idea. Anyone surprised that theirs was kid who spend the first two days of camp homesick? Friday night is one thing (which we will discourage in the future) but all week is nuts.

A unit which doesn't meet the criteria for a full charter but is given a time frame -- usually six months, I think -- to correct the deficiency or it is dropped. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure it is available to new units. I know at recharter a unit which has dropped below standards can receive a temporary provisional charter to give them time to fix whatever problems they have.

Sorry, SP, gotta agree with Scoutnut on this. Sign paper members, whether for the relatively noble end of getting a troop up and running or for the ignoble end of padding the recruitment numbers to receive a bonus, is shady at best. Suzy, I like the idea of going to Roundtable and finding a veteran Scout who can help get your unit up and running. Or work your way up the food in the council. The next step is likely the Director of Field Services. After that is the Scout Executive or maybe and Asst. SE, depending on your council. There's also a whole volunteer structure of district and council membership chairmen and commissioners. There are a number of work around for this, including your unit being provisionally chartered unitl you can recruit the five extra boys. I'm really surprised your district professional isn't more supportive -- most of them would cut their wrists for a new unit. Actually, that makes me think there may be more going on here than you know. But I'm really surprised no one is looking out for two boys who want to join Scouting and go to summer camp. There's no excuse for that.

We went through it while I was still Cubmaster. Created two weak troops. If I were involved at the district level and there was talk of splitting a troop, I would discourage it. If there is demand for a new troop, fine. The CO and the district should work together to create one. But the idea is "splitting" an existing troop is a bad one.

Yeah, when it come to their own stench, boys' sense of smell seems to develop later than their sweat glands. I remember sitting in camp with a bunch of guys when one started sniffing the air, then his own arm pit with a big PHEWWWW! "You know," my old Scoutmaster told him, "when you can smell yourself, the rest of us have been smelling you for three days." Words of wisdom

A deep one. Whole troop peed in it as we left, just for emphasis. Except for the adults who were in the RV waiting for the Scouts to load our stuff.

Not following the boys around, but let's see: For the past couple years we've run our own program for the first year scouts in-house. This year we had 12 scouts complete Tenderfoot at camp. Yes, we conduct SM conferences and have a couple parents drive up to do boards of review. This year I helped with one of the afternoon MB classes. One leader taught a full session of First Aid merit badge (in addition to handling all the medications for the troop.) Two leaders spent three hour a day with two of the high adventure classes. We had guys help run the climbing wall for open session and went with the climbing class to an off-site climb. One guy helped lead the fly-fishing trip. Another went on the the whitewater trip with that class. One of the guys spent time helping at with shooting sports (when he wasn't doing the above stuff.) Oh yeah, and we took 49 boys to scout camp for a week. Please explain to me how our program would have been improved by these guys taking an extra half-our to take a shower. How is it a problem that I'm spending money out of my own pocket to do something nice for a bunch of folks who volunteered a week away from their families and jobs for the benefit of our Scouts? Maybe your camp sucks so bad because of all the sitting around your leaders are doing.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

All of the above, Short, yet we still get kids who either don't bathe, give it a quick dash barely getting wet or who put the same slimey clothes back on. I dont' get it either. Certainly the showers aren't as nice as home, but our youth showers have individual stalls with curtained changing areas. Many boys do change in the main dressing area, but if you want privacy, it's available. There is hot water and the shower houses are even air conditioned (which I thinks leads to problems by making the showers an attractive place to hang out.) Still, I'm not going to sniff arm pits. We talk a lot about taking care of one's self and how much better you will feel and sleep after a nice shower. I'll remind the particularly grubby guys, or the ones I notice are wearing the same t-shirt for the third day, they need to shower and change. Our senior guys take the whole troop to the shower house together. I suppose boys just need to grow up a bit and/or suffer through a couple days of crotch rot to learn better.

Playing the Devil's Advocate here. Where do you guys find the exemption if the person providing the porn is a youth? Do you see a similar exemption for the other actions in the policy such as physical or sexual abuse? If a 17-y.o. sexually abuses an 11-y.o. is it an internal matter or reportable? I had two 11-y.o.s get into a tussle waiting for assembly last week. One kid swatted the other with his hat and the second kid punched him in the arm. Is that "exposed to any form of violence"? I gave them a quick lecture and made them shake hands. Should I have called the local sheriff instead?

Thank you, wingnut, my sentiments exactly. I put a lot of time and effort into making sure our Scouts have a great time at summer camp. Doing something to make week a little easier on the leaders can't be bad thing either. The specs say it raises the temp 30-35 degrees above ambient. So unless you're pumping water out of a frozen lake.... Didn't have a thermometer, but cranked up it's too hot for a comfortable shower.

Oh, I forgot. Manly Scouters don't shower, or if they do they hike five steep, trecherous miles each way to do so. We did talk about taking an RV to camp next year -- of course that would be Camp Mickey -- but we've decided the afternoon tea at the Grand Floridian is just too much to pass up. And no, qwazse, the unit is white so to make it easier to see the carbon emissions. After an 18 hour day dealing with a troop of 49 Scouts, you guys really think providing the adults a convenient, hot shower is a bad thing?

I have seen the Promised Land and it looks like this: A white metal box about 16" tall, 12" wide and 4" deep. It hangs to a wall or tree and is connected to a water source with a garden hose on one side, a propane tank in the middle and a hand-held shower on the other. It produces 1.4 gallons of hot water a minute, which means you can stand under a toasty hot shower until the propane runs out. Although our camp has very nice adult showers, they're a good hike from our campsite. (The youth showers are much closer.) That usually means you are just as hot and sweating coming from the shower as you were when you left for it. And if I don't get to shower until all the scouts are settled in, it's often midnight before I'm back in camp. We set the rig up in our campsite, building a shower stall with a couple shower curtains (but black, 6mil poly would have worked). With six or eight adults using it, we could take showers all day long. The unit is an Eccotemp L5 instant-on, tankless water heater. They retail for $149, but they're on Amazon for $112 all day. I got this one "used" for $92 and free shipping, but it arrived still factory-sealed in the box. If I had 12 I could have sold them all. Gas use doesn't seem bad -- about half a 20# tank after a week's worth of showers with 6-to-8 adults in camp. No electrical connection -- the igniter works on two "D" batteries. The only negative comment is the quality of the shower hose and head. The water pressure blew out the hose a couple time. The water cut-off when in the shower is the thumb switch on the shower head. We learned to cut the water hose off at the source to solve the problem, but replacing the hose is an easy, inexpensive upgrade at one of the big-box hardware stores. We'll also add a cut-off valve on the garden hose which will keep you from running to the spigot in nothing but a towel. After one week I can't comment on the long-term durability, but for $92 I'll buy one every year! We're thinking about mounting it on inside of the troop trailer door (so it is outside when the door swings open) for use on car camping trips when we have access to running water. Although we don't necessarily need showers on weekend campouts, it will be a much more efficient means of producing hot water for clean up.

Oh come on folks, this is a father and son. I'm guessing they are capable of deciding how they want to do this. This shouldn't be an opportunity to impose your feelings on Wood Badge on them. The questions is how to transition between the ceremonies. You have the SPL or SM or whoever is acting as emcee say, "and now we come to the next item, the presentation of the Eagle Scout Award." and keep right on going.

What are the latest recommendations on the volume of water to be consumed and the ratio between plain water and sports drinks. A quart an hour seems reasonable during periods of heavy exertion, but excessive otherwise. Opinions seem to be all over the place and most are like belly buttons.

josryan -- seems like that notice has been on Scouting.com for at least a year (the copyright notice on the page says 2010, if you can go by that). BSA is not what you would consider an early adopter.

Ummmm, maybe I can send you a PM. Posting a photo with the troop number, town, first and last names and ranks of every guy in the troop probably isn't a good idea. But next week. Loading for camp this afternoon, leaving in the morning.

I suppose it all depends on what your dreams are, Fred. If your dream is to be a Eagle Scout in middle school so you can quit Scouts and move on to another resume builder, yeah, I'll own wanting to guide that Scout to rethink his dreams. I guess it's a good thing you're not in our troop nor me in yours. And I think it's great our scouts get to make that choice, too.

As many troops do, the front wall of our Scout House has a series of plaques with the names of all the current troop member listed by rank. This was something I started not long after becoming Scoutmaster. Whenever a Scout leaves the troop, we toss his name plaque in a box. Packing for camp next week, I came across the box and rummaged through it. Using the stack of old plaques, I developed some interesting statistics (and keep in mind this system isnt 100% foolproof): There have been 134 Scouts in the troop in the since we began use the plaques 60 current members. 26 dropped out after being in the troop a reasonable length of time and give the program a legitimate chance. These are the guys who moved on to sports, band, girls, or just lost interest. Everyone has a different story. Some I wish I could have kept, for some Scouting just wasn't going to be their thing. 15 dropped out without giving the program a legitimate chance IMHO. Half are boys who were Web2s and whose parents completed applications and maybe paid dues but never actually attended a single troop meeting (which tells me our dues are too low.) Three were experiments in which the boy had already decided he didnt want to join he troop but their parent convinced him to give it a try. Only two stayed long enough to attend summer camp (4 months). 15 made Eagle and remained relative active until aging out 6 left because their family moved out of town 5 transferred to other units (and three of those have made Eagle) 5 left due to disciplinary reasons. Only one was removed from the troop. The others read the writing on the wall. 2 aged out as Life Scouts -- the rarest of them all! Conclusions? Hmmmm. Did I mention I dropped Statistics after two weeks? Its hard to know what to count, but it looks like our retention rate is in the low-to-mid 60% range. Do the boys who never really joined count? How about boys who moved or transferred? Ive always said I could improve our retention rate tremendously if we waited three months to turn in new Scout applications. On the other hand, were producing Eagles at three times the national average. Not bad for a troop with a Scoutmaster who ignores advancement policy, adds to the requirements and works to keep the Eagle numbers low. No real point to be made -- honestly, it's still a bit of a chin-scratcher -- but an interesting snapshot I thought I'd share.

All of the above, but I see laziness as the big thing. I've noticed the cooking effort goes up considerably on two or three-night campouts. (So does cleanliness and organization.) On a one-nighter, the boys figure they can stand anything for 24 hours. Big breakfast Ssturday at home, cold sandwiches for lunch, hot dogs for dinner and PopTarts Sunday morning. Then Mom comes to the rescue with a big lunch when they get home. Taking pride in doing something well is a fragile thing in adolescent boys. One "sucker" or "mama's boy" can destroy a whole lot of pride and good work. We spent a year teaching our guys to take cooking up a notch, to show a little pride and that a little effort paid off in considerably better eating. Started getting omlets, not just scrambled eggs; sausage, onions and peppers instead of dogs on cold buns. It almost all went down the drain one morning when one patrol brought PopTart for breakfast and spent their extra time walking from patrol to patrol giving the others lip for wasting their time cooking cleaning. The next month, we were back to frozen waffles and instant oatmeal.