blw2

I'll add one more thing about birdhouses (or anything like that) In our case it ended up being more of a project for the den leaders. Were were trying to get it done in one pack meeting so there was a sense of urgency and rush... & I think they all took over mainly, I think, because none of us were really up to speed on letting the boys lead. (yes, i know it's cubs, but I'm coming around to think that we should be looking for ways to let them lead) I'd suggest letting the boys do it, kit or not. It will be more fun for them.

see, that's stepping into another grey area.... the personal risk I mean.... Honor Medal in part, "demonstrated unusual heroism and skill in saving or attempting to save a life at considerable risk to self." At first I was leaning that way. I do think that it was a legit save on his part. She was in a serious situation for sure. It wasn't one of those not really so serious things that some folks (smothers) might over react to... But, I don't know why, but it just doesn't seem quite there. maybe it's because I was right there on top of it backing him up, or maybe because he's so humble about it.... I don't know why.... Anyway, that's not why I started the thread.... I was thinking more of a general discussion around these grey area criteria....

This is A cycle I think is natural in scouting. I look at it as a natural thing that probably happens in most groups. If you plot it it might look like a sine wave, up and down and up and down, likely with several years between peaks and valleys. I see it happening in our pack as a unit.... and honestly I think it's a good thing. I think we're at bottom, or nearly there. The old guard will be moved on soon. Another one or two seasons after, with some breathing room for new energy. Then things will spring back nicely. Until then its a fight to get good out of the program. I see this in our troop too, and they seem to be coming out of the valley heading back up nicely.

This post is mostly a bit of bragging about my son, so my apologies for that. Over Thanksgiving break, my kids were all swimming in a hotel pool. My wife and I were poolside, but not in the water. We were noticing that our youngest, a 4 year old, seemed to have almost forgotten how to swim since summer. She was swimming like a fish a couple months ago. Now she was getting around but not so well. Anyway, at one point she's in just a bit over her head, and i see that she's in a dangerous situation. I moved to the edge, just in case. She's seriously close to breathing in the wet stuff. I was about 1/2 second away from jumping in, when i see my son calmly crossing the pool to get to her, from where he was playing with his other sister. He would get to her before me. He noticed the situation and acted without my telling him, or really any commotion or calling from anyone. Just the silent and nearly invisible struggle of his sister. He got to her before i jumped, but it was close! A bit of coughing but all is good. I was close and would have have gotten to my daughter in time, but that half second might have meant a more serious situation for sure. A bit later I got to thinking about these boys we read about in Boys Life each month doing basically this same sort of thing. So, I said asked my son what he thought about my looking into submitting him or a medal. I forget exactly what he said, but he totally blew it off, saying basically that he didn't do anything all that special. No big deal. Those medals are for something more.... After reading the requirements for the medal, I decided against pursuing it. He didn't want it, and he wasn't really exhibiting an "uncommon degree of concern" or showing "exceptional" character. He was just being a good brother and a good person showing what I would call a common degree of concern and showing good character. Even still, I'm proud of him for that, and I'm proud of him thinking of it as just doing a good turn (not his words, but he's heard that phrase enough) I just got to thinking though, this might be an interesting topic..... what would you define as uncommon concern, or exceptional character.

a couple years ago, one of our den leader's employer, a factory, was working with some local conservation or bird loving group to make a bird haven with only native plants on their undeveloped property. they were planning to put up bluebird houses.... so we made bluebird houses at a pack meeting. I'll be if you contacted the audubon society, or something like that, they might point you in a direction or two.. or maybe ask a local park ranger if you have a state park nearby. or a church. They always need help around their grounds, picking up pine cones, or weeding, or something..

I'm in this exact same position. My son's den (I'm now the ADL) is crossing over late January they have been done with everything since last year, except the time requirements.... so as of December my son and most of the others have earned their AOL A few weeks ago, i had the idea that I should dedicate part of a meeting to getting started, or at least aware, of what the new requirements are, that they will need to start on. i wish the books were available, but at least we have the new requirements on-line. Anyway, i was thinking a lot of these have to do with memorizing and understanding so that they can "explain in their own words..". No reason they can't get on with studying taht stuff now, right? Be better prepared that the average non-AOL new scout, right? Well, in searching for ways to make this more interesting or fun, it was pointed out to me that maybe we shouldn't be stressing requirements at all. Maybe we should just let the boys do what scouts do. In doing that, they will complete requirements without even realizing it. More fun that way too, right? Besides, mot boys, at least mine, don't care a hill of beans about ticking off the requirements. He just wants to have fun. And while I'm reading BP's Aides to Scoutmastership, he makes this point very well and it just cemented what was suggested to me.

our council's office is very dated in a not so nice part of town. and they have just just finished, or are about to finish a massive upgrade at the council's main camp with screened shelters at each campsite, and aquatics park, and I think some other stuff. Each campsite's latrine is a much nicer and cleaner version of the outhouse krampus pictured... basically the same thing but much nicer. re FOS, our previous and now current Cubmaster rejects FOS at our B&G. Tells them not to come. I agree with him partly, but I also realize that this is what they are being asked to do so while I was Cubmaster I let them have the floor for a few minutes, not ideal maybe, but really no big deal. Also, I have to say that i have never felt the need to give to FOS. I am already giving greatly to scouting and the BSA in time, treasure, and perhaps not so much talent. I've ended up buying and donating all sorts of stuff to the unit through the years. The way I figure it support the unit, make it strong. Make the unit something folks want to join when more folks join they get more dues..... and so on... If I were a "normal" parent I'd likely feel a little more like giving. BUT getting a letter like that certainly would turn me sour.

I should add, I think it would be a good read even for parents that aren't scouters too. Might help them understand how it's supposed to work.

while the site was down, I read a few scouting books. one of them addressed some of this issue "So Far So Good: A New Scoutmaster's Story, by Clarke Green" I thought it was a good read, and probably should be required reading before Scoutmaster Specific. An easy quick read & I'll bet even very experienced Scouters would get a thing or two from it, even if they wouldn't want to admit it. Anyway, he sets up a few parent type situations and how a scouter might deal with them.

I'm not a knight, but I thought they were already "under" a parish.... more or less chartered by the one they meet at and where all their members attend mass. That's the way it seems around here.... but then, what do I know...

what a great movie!

Our 2nd year WEBELOS den is, well in a word, fragmented. We have a split in our pack that goes back before my time where some didn't like something about our CO's troop so they split off and formed or joined a troop across the street at a different church. Now, some of those folks who are leaders in the other troop, have younger son's that are in my den. Of course, their loyalty goes to the other troop with their dads and big brothers. A couple of the boys plan to stay with our CO's troop though. Our CO's troop has changed I think for the better and now seems to be running fairly well, it has grown, and seems to be a good troop again.... so I'm happy that my son wants to stick with our church's troop. Because of the split though.... and since the boys finished most of the AOL requirements last year, and some negativity brought in by some of the dads, our DL hasn't been really energetic this year... and it has been contagious to me too. there hasn't been any interest in doing troop visits as a complete den, camping as a den, etc... It's a shame too, that this adult junk gets in the way- but very interesting to me as a side note, that the split is pretty much even and not splitting the groups or cliques in the den, except for one boy. Anyway, Because of several 'excuses', We have not done anything along the lines of forming a "patrol" or really preparing the scouts for troop life. I was thinking about leading a meeting, or really part of a meeting, to orient the boys a bit with what to expect. Perhaps give them a list of the new requirements for SCOUT rank, so they know what they are going to have to do Let them know that it's going to be on them, and not the adults to make things happen make sure they understand it's no longer parents doing the sign offs and include a discussion about troop structure (patrols, boy lead, etc).... The boys going to the other troop know better than me how that troop runs so they can likely chime in a lot. The DL and I have discussed it. I was thinking just a simple 5-10 minute discussion, not a lecture but a discussion. I think it could be productive. He was thinking it would be fun to make it into a game out of it. So my question is this: Any ideas or suggestions on how to make the discussion more fun or interesting?

I too was much more productive!.... but I did check in most days just to see. In the meantime, I spent a lot more time over at scoutmastercg.com listening to podcasts, getting more up to speed on how troops should run for my son's transition to Boy Scouts in January. Read Clarke Green's book, "So Far, So Good!", and I'm most of the way through BP's "Aides To Scoutmastership". Both good reads, IMO..... even for those of you that are already working a boy lead patrol method troop, I'd imagine you'd pick up at least a nugget or two if you haven't read either of these. Also in the interim, I took my son to visit a couple troops. The one not at our pack's CO didn't do much in the way of making My son and the other WEBELOS scout feel welcome. They tried a little, but the strange environment and not knowing anybody really closed the boys down. They were trying boy lead, but it seemed like a lot of adult involvement. My son felt much more welcome and comfortable at our CO's troop. I'm not sure what if any involvement I will have as a Scouter, since they seem to already have a pretty full adult roster. I hope to help if and where I can though. We'll see....

Well no, I wouldn't say he finds it discouraging. He doesn't really have the depth to think about it in those terms. He just knows that it was a strange pace, strange setting that he doesn't know, a bunch of people he didn't know, and the boys didn't make him feel welcome.... but objectively I'll say that a big part of that is his own fault for acting so shy. Well I think this is sort of the rub. You have to support the program as it is, or as it develops, but I fear that by the time change can really take place it's too late for my son..... What I'd like to see is an opportunity for my son to grow from the boy led patrol method. I thoroughly understand it, in theory anyway and I feel that it would be a great thing for him. (And I should point out.... my thought process is more than just him.... this post is just a philosophical thought about any dad in my situation.) Go to an adult led 1 to 5 on @@Stosh 's scale, and the boy will be ok as long as he has friends and they do fun stuff, but he won't have the growth potential. oh, and @@Stosh, your comment about not judging based on a single snapshot.... valid point for sure but I think you can tell more than a single point in time just by asking a few questions about past and future real workld events....as an example. I asked several questions of both adults and scouts at the meeting. About the trip they just took and about a typical meeting and about the meeting they were having (the entire troop split into two groups and were working on two merit badges that the adults decided to teach They have patrols, but the patrols are shaken up and re-formed....at a time selected by the adults and reformed based on the adult needs..... so it's clearly not a patrol of boys that are friends....its not their choosing and the trips and meeting agendas are adult driven It was clearly a troop meeting and not patrols patrols are formed ad hoc depending on the meeting or trip, even though they do have a patrol structure. BUT, I'll give them credit that as a relatively new troop they had a good turn out and the boys seemed to be enjoying themselves..... and that is a big part of it!

A few of us did our first WEBELOS to Troop visit last night. It didn't go well, but that's another topic.... After the meeting, I was thinking about something I have read many times here and elsewhere.... You know how it goes, a parent complains about a troop not being boy led, or using the patrol method, or whatever.... So the advice, especially to a new SM, is to step up and make the change. So i was thinking about this after our meeting last night. For a new parent, who's son is just joining a troop, that must be a very long road to hike....! This troop was I'm sure in the mind of the leaders IS doing the boy led thing.... but I asked several questions that made it clear that it's the "Scoutmasters" that make the decisions, make the plan.... oh, they probably let the boys pick their menu, but the adults even drive in some cases when a boy will work on a merit badge.... Now this is a troop to which I have zero connections. It's not my CO's troop, I don't know the players.... So I was thinking if my son were to join.... it would likely be some time before I could ever even find a spot on the committee to fill and it would be even longer before I could begin to change the patrol method boy led culture of the troop.... likely a very long time if it was even possible at all. so meanwhile my son would then become one of the older scouts that is resisting the change when it finally would hit.... He would miss the opportunity that i want for him in a truly boy led troop. We'll visit the more likely troop for him soon, my CO's troop....but my suspicion is that they will in at least some ways be similar. It seems like an impossible situation to change.... for my son anyway. I find this very discouraging.

We do have folks miss from time to time, but I suspect that happens any night. Some nights are better than others for different folks.... for me as an example, I'd miss some meetings if they were on Tuesdays and Thursdays.... there seems to be so many other meetings that fall on those nights that I can rarely make because my wife works late. We used to have some committee members that couldn't make Monday's because their troop meets then.... Re Friday When my son first signed up for Tigers..... we were told the pack meets on a Friday every month. then the mom that stepped up to be the leader set Friday for the Den meetings..... at first, I was really against it.... every friday of the month in theory would be Scouts, after all.... ugh. I slowly started to see the advantage of Friday and in reality we skip some Friday's for Den meetings anyway so we do have plenty of off weeks.

+1 on the bread tip! I haven't done all that much DO cooking, but I have settled on the ring method instead of counting briquettes. as in one ring under and 1-1/2 rings over for approx 350 degrees F (where a ring is a full circle with coals touching, and a half ring skips every other coal in the ring) has worked well for me so far and no counting, don't care how big the oven is, etc....

that's why I like Friday nights for meetings no worry about bed times no worry about homework no worries about me getting up for work the next day

you just don't call him up. No big deal.....

yep, it's not the baggie itself. Usually, it's half a step better than "here's your awards." More like The DL calls up a boy "Billy earned is outdoor achievement award and his chess belt loop this month" usually recited before the boy even gets up front.... The DL then tosses or hands the bag to the boy. and tries to get the boy to shake hands.... which most do reluctantly so he's up front less than 20 seconds With a mega pack, it's probably hard to do much more than that but it's not what I would call "Meaningful" there could be more discussion about the awards, what was fun about it, what was required, etc.... Make a big deal about it. make the boy a little proud for an accomplishment. let the other boys hear what he did, maybe make them want to earn it too.... and maybe for the bigger ones, such as rank, perhaps the Outdoor Achievement Award, etc... I think it would be better to try and do a ceremony, even if a very short and basic one...

They're really pushing that recharter earlier and earlier! October round table?!? I think they're giving ours out at the November round table (early November), which is still very early by my thinking. The thing isn't due until the END of January!

I think @@5yearscouter outlines a pretty good meeting. I'd agree that once in a while at least it's a good idea to get each boy up as an individual. My suggestion for doing it in groups is just based on the size of the pack. I also like his suggestion of having the dens display what they have been up to. My predecessors had a habit of den time.... a time during the meeting for each den to do a skit or some activity. I tried to start something new where they would present what they have been up to..... either a show, or a tell, etc.... I liked the idea of displaying it at their table but My hope was that this way required less prep time of the den leaders to come up with a display.... since they were usually scrambling and unprepared just to get their awards in order.... Sadly, now that my predecessors are now my successors, it has died.... I stuck with the den time idea for skits though..... and sometimes My den leaders wouldn't have anything..... or it would be done on the fly and not very good...... so I can sympathize with you @@jbelanger86. I would always try to have an activity to get the boys up an screaming and such. If there were no skits, I would just let this go on a bit longer.... or have a second one in my back pocket just in case. Have a package of balloons handy.... there are tons of things you can do with them on the fly..... I once did a relay race where the boys each inflated a balloon (or their parents). It was a big hit I think.... the balloons all went in a pile and the boys lined up in teams on the other side of the room. One at a time a boy would run and grab a balloon, run back to the head of his line and sit on the balloon to make it pop. The next boy couldn't run for his balloon until it popped. I used to do up an announcement flyer as a handout to reduce or eliminate announcements. I'd usually point out anything big though..... but found that most folks didn't even bother to take them and I could never get anyone else on the committee to take over that role when I took CubMaster.... so I dropped that. Oh, rereading your post..... one more thing about awards.... it seems like the den leaders are handing all the awards to you for passing out. I'm assuming you are CM We have always called the Den Leaders to the front of the room to do the handing out..... I sure do wish I had one more year with it as CM.... oh what am I saying....

I think outdoor training outdoors is a wonderfully novel idea! It has always cracked me up..... U of Scouting classes in high school classrooms My Baloo class was 100% indoors, in a church activity hall. etc....

avoid the temptation to be a baggie pack. That's what my pack has always done, since before my time. and with the exception of AOL, have never done any sort of ceremony. meaningful or otherwise..... call the name, he earned this, that, and the other thing.... hand him the bag, everyone claps repeat. I was never happy doing that The best I have read for larger packs is to do them in mass will the following boys come to the front when they get there, you say these boys have earned X I suppose you could then even elaborate with some sort of ceremony or whatever Then do the next group of awards. Some boys may get called to the front a few times in the evening if they earned more than one award.... Or even better, encourage your Den Leaders to present the awards immediately at Den Meetings, or ASAP at the next Den meeting .... then at the pack meeting you can recognize the boy maybe by reading off everyone that earned any award since the last pack meeting and having them stand at the front.... then you can very quickly recognize each boy for what they did as they stand in line in front of the pack. Personally I like this immediate recognition much better.

right about some are better at presenting than others & some are more knowledgeable or experienced in the subject matter too...... and they may write them with that intent but in the end I think that the meetings and committees involved with the writing end up with over complicated &/or incomplete &/or confusing language. Not just with the training course.... the whole BSA program If you step back and take a look at almost any aspect of it, there is just far too much variation out there from one program to the next.... from one training course to the next.... and I can only guess from one district or council to the next.... Things are too much open to interpretation folks ignoring it and doing it "the way it has always been done" some folks with egos putting their stamp on it etc... It shouldn't be this hard.