blw2

oh no, I'm fairly urban here, in North Florida. I just figured that most folks that are "into" scouting tend to be outdoorsmen anyway.... even if not hard core outdoorsmen, most of us like to camp, or maybe fish, hunt, etc... In my case, I've been plop camping in one form or another since before I was a Cub Scout. I've done a little backpacking, not nearly as much as I'd like. A little bit of camping by boat and canoe. This sort of experience seems to be the typical scouter here. We have plenty of indoor parents that have never camped, families that camp with us as a pack for the very first time. Some will never camp...... but I can't think of any scouter I know that comes from that demographic. Those are the parents that don't step up.

I don't think it's worthless at all, for a scout that wants to learn something. It may be worthless, however for a scout that wants me to spoon feed him. Now I have only just signed up for it, sat through a little class that was centered around that PPT linked to earlier here.... and I haven't actually worked through the dynamic yet with any scouts.... But I've read through several of the MB handbooks and tried to get an understanding of what's required of me to help the scouts. Most of what I've seen in the handbooks, the scout should be reading and doing and asking. I should be answering his questions, helping by pointing him in the direction to find his answers, helping him to understand.... and yes Sign Off. .... I'd venture a guess that a prepared and on the ball scout would easily be able to complete the requirements straight out of the book all by himself for many of the badges, and all he would need from an MBC would be a discussion to confirm he did the work, and a signature..... the exceptions might include the required visits to professionals that he may need the MBC's advice for..... or maybe just a point in the direction to set it up. I'm not intending to mean that a MBC should be Hands-Off and Un-Inspiring, either..... just the opposite actually. I just don't see a classroom lecture as all that much fun or helpful to a boy. He gets enough of that in school!

I'd take the course if it's ever offered at a convenient time for me.... regardless if I ever get into a position to need the cert. When I was working on my SCUBA Assist Instructor, I had to take first aid. Instead of taking the run of the mill red cross type class that I've sat through too many times to count at work, I took what they called Community 1st Aid and CPR. The difference being the focus on kids and infants, as well as adults. Through all of the training I've had, I feel that its a step or two better than worthless fro exactly the reasons you mention Stosh. Too much "book", not enough experience. This Community 1st aid class was taught by a young paramedic, hands down the best class I've had.... not because I gained any real hands on experience, but because at least my teacher had some. He told lots of "war stories" that really helped to put things into perspective. I watched a great documentary a while back on Air Force Pararescuemen. I'll bet even they wouldn't really be as skilled at this off grid stuff since most of their practice seems to be stabilize enroute, get them back within the "golden hour" And this discussion reminds me of the "Goat Lab" that I read about in a Navy Seal medic's biography once..... now that's a hands on class, as close as you can get without the real thing!

Boy, differs from my BALOO experience. There was quite a big crowd of students.... probably 30 or more. I think there was maybe a handful of folks with little or no camping experience. The rest were eagle scouts, experienced scouters, lifelong campers, etc.... in it just because it was required. In fact I think there was more knowledge about tour permits sitting down that there was standing up.

I like this idea, in theory anyway. I'll eat almost anything as long as it doesn't have Blue Cheese on it, and I'm not a fan of most vinegar dressings and sauces. My wife on the other hand is a very picky eater and has taught our kids nicely to be picky..... so it's hard for me to teach this way... But in the context of the group camping menu.... I agree, except to say that some folks just may not care for BBQ in one or more of these various forms..... so I think it's good to offer choices anytime something primary in the menu might be polarizing....

Yep, grade level here. I find that in itself a little bit sticky when it comes time for a troop. my son as an example, would not qualify to join a troop when we cross if he had not earned the AOL. We have one relatively inactive boy on our roster that will not have earned his AOL and so he's fallen into this trap. The discipline thing is something I've struggled with too. I support what you did, but would have likely suggested a slightly different approach.... depending on what your role or position is. Regardless, One thing is for sure, most responsible parents I know would support you for what you did. (unless perhaps if the kid wandered off to someplace completely away from everyone..... we can't see your camp's layout) The parent is supposed to be there. I as CM or Den Leader, or whatever really shouldn't be put into the position of doing that. I probably would have reminded him a couple times as you did, then looked for the parent personally, only issuing a timeout or whatever if the parent was nowhere to be found..... but some folks, my wife for example, have no problem disciplining other people's kids... just as you did. My son's den leader is the same as me. Something he and I have discussed a few times is that in hindsight, what we should have done is to establish much clearer expectations and boundaries early on. Expectations of the kids to behave an mind.... and expectation to the parents that they are to be in attendance and they are to keep their kids inline. I think we both agree that we should have started doing exactly what you did with that boy early on, instead of throwing up our hands. We generally don't have much of a problem, but I think what we have is a little less than ideal because of our mistakes.

The MBC's investment? The MBC's ability? Isn't it the boy who is doing the work? As i see it the MBC is just there to guide, answer questions, maybe as a side note to swap some stories to help the boy understand or to help encourage him.... but mostly the MBC as it seems to me is there to verify that the boy did the work. Again, they're not really "teaching" anything. Do I have that all wrong?

I'm new at this MBC stuff, but I agree with @@DuctTape. I'm counseling.... I have no intention of teaching a class. I signed up for several, and really would feel comfortable doing several others. Some I know more about than others..... but 'm not here to teach a class. I'm there to advise, answer questions, encourage, discuss... and mostly to verify that the scout has done the work.....but I'm not there to lecture. Based on Fred's post, I may find some disappointed parents or scouts in the future... but I just don't see it that way.... I may change in the future, but doubt if I'll ever agree to do a class or a MB College. I see it as an individual effort.... even if it's two or more buddies working on it together, I'd look at them more as a study session partners rather than a class.

yeah, I'm firmly in the "it's the food" camp..... not the place.

now this I agree with! Now if they could just offer some of this stuff when we're not right in the busy time with our units!

but isn't owl alone just a one day thing?

absolutely right. It seems very common to think that with IOLS the others are not needed. They wouldn't cover the rules and such needed for cubs in IOLS, since it's a Scout level training. As others have written, these are all separate iols, owl (also has other names), and baloo In some ways redundant, yes..... & I think that's a big reason that people blow them off. and around here they aren't thought very often..... well IOLS is, sometimes with OWLS tacked on. It took me over a year of looking in all surrounding councils before I found a BALOO course I could make. They are very rare. Honestly not worth the wait IMHO. I have never seen OWLS offered alone

nah, that's grillin' BBQ is when you slather on sauce... seriously though, I'm not sure if this is the book definition, but I've always thought of it as this grilling = cooked on a grille over high to med high heat, fast cooking (i.e. steaks, chicken, burgers, etc...) BBQ = lower heat and slow cooking, sometimes smoked cold or smoked warm, usually over a grille but not necessarily.... and always served with sauce cooked &/or slathered on or sauce on the side

reminds me of another novelty, taco in a bag individual sized bag of fritos corn chips to which you'll add browned ground beef, diced tomatoes, cheese, spices, etc.... eaten with a spoon right out of the bag not my thing, but its a novelty

Yep, this could be so much fun if it weren't for the adult drama! The only other advise I can give at this point is don't take this Cub stuff too seriously. and don't burn yourself out. seems like you have lots of energy for scouting. Probably more than any other scouters in the pack. I don't remember if you said what stage your son(s) are... meaning how many more years in cubs you have.... but be careful. I know from experience that the adult drama can squash that energy you have. Step back & Get some perspective once in awhile.... for me, that came in looking forward, gaining a better understanding of what comes after the boys cross over to a troop. It helped me understand that all of this Cub advancement stuff is a method to fun. It doesn't really carry over... doesn't really matter. What matters is fun for the boys setting an example for the boys making a difference in your son's life with memories they can hold forever & keeping them safe I don't believe in pencil whipping stuff, but you have to realize that in the big picture much of this program stuff is just not life critical. some of it's downright boring even.... so make it fun.

ah no, they like steaks there every now and then too..... It's not like I'm suggesting going vegan or anything!!

Honestly, what I would love to see someone provide is an embroidered name strip Like what you see sewn onto some military uniforms EXCEPT much smaller to match exactly in size, font, fleur-di-lis, etc...the official white on black one from the scout store. I started a thread here some time ago, looking for a source. and searched heavily online a few years back I ultimately even ordered some from a place that I thought would be close to what I want, but when i received them they weren't. everything looks too military I saw a troop once, when our pack was staying at Patriot's Point, that had them..... must have been locally sourced.

our CO's troop some time ago voted to keep the Red pack numbers and red epaulets. I think the red numbers were likely out of laziness. A former scouter made the red epaulet loops. although in my last few connections with the troop, I've seen a mix with some boys and leaders with the standard green numbers and loops..... so I'm not sure where they stand today Personally, I'd prefer the standard and available green.... but they put the decision to the boys.

Not saying what I would do, just saying what we have done... Our pack's camping menu has historically been driven by a parent/scouter that likes to smoke meat. and supplemented by a mom we used to have in the pack that owned a restaurant and bought stuff wholesale... the smoked BBQ was good, but only if you like that sort of thing. I do, but not all the time. generally he's smoke up some pork butts, chicken, and maybe some ribs. Sometimes supplement with grilled burgers and dogs for the picky kids... burgers would be the store bought patties.... this is generally done up on one of several tow behind "whole pig sized" grille/smokers that we have access too. (check your bank, sometimes they have them available, or your CO) For breakfast we'd heat up some restaurant bought pre-cooked sausages, eggs, bacon, and prebaked biscuits.... ok, but not great IMO breakfast the last day would be single serving size cereals lunches would be cold cut sandwiches. Other ideas a lot of folks like the "tin Soldier" foil packets thrown in the fire. We've done it several times, with hamburger patties and other stuff thrown in.... personally I really don't like it..... but it is a novelty for most folks. Maybe with better cuts of meat and proper ingredients I'd like it better.... I'd throw it out to the pack parents for favorite big group recipees..... since you're plop camping most likely, with the right equipment you can cook pretty much anything you would do at home, or in your church's activity hall for a large group. Grille, bake, fry, whatever....

I really hope @@jbelanger86 checks back in with an update. Also, I was kinda thinking along the lines of @@CalicoPenn re getting one's own house in order..... working two positions can be bad.... and I would add that having two (or more) of the key 3 positions in one family can be bad on top of bad. Not that @@jbelanger86 would do anything wrong, but it can be a) a drain on the family b) other folks might wrongfully suspect impropriety Yep, I'd drop the ACM as @@CalicoPenn suggests.... or maybe even better - give the Committee Chair role to one of the many other parents in the pack, and simply back up your husband as ACM. I can imagine that would be a good team. As much as I hated it, I was CM without an assistant AND without an active CC..... so I sort of wore all three hats to a degree (along with a few other hats from the committee)..... although I tried to be very conscious of not wearing the other hats any more than I absolutely had to. My point is, CM can be done without a formal ACM if necessary.

In this situation why not suggest that the boys set up a high adventure patrol, as opposed to a separate unit (as in Crew)? oh never mind, the Girls.....

one more comment..... throwing out all the other stuff for a moment. If I were faced with an existing 2nd year WEBELOS den working the old program (that's what we're doing too, by the way) and only had one den and I had 2 new 2nd year WEBELOS boys join fresh with no prior scouting history I would merge them into the existing old program Den. & i would give them the options; a) just join in and have fun....forget advancement b) work hard and catch up under the old program c) work hard in the new program for AOL. (I'm sure the DL can handle it, considering most will need to be "homework") because, either option b or c is going to require a tremendous amount of homework to get done. I would never expect that either option would be completed only during the meetings for these boys. and with option b, they just have to earn WEBELOS.... nothing says they must have AOL except it may technically delay their joining a troop based on age. BUT I'll bet if they want it they could earn the old AOL too.... you'd only have to look the other way on a couple things, such as "be active in your den for X months...".... and ask your DE, but I'm thinking that if that's what it takes to get these boys to join a troop, they would likely even support it!

But for what purpose? It wouldn't be the "official" BSA name tag, so no good on the uniform! I get a kick out of these vendors selling these non-uniform graphic nametags at official events such as our University of Scouting Honestly, I don't care.... except to quote yoda, “Do. Or do not. There is no try.â€

Also writing from experience having been Assistant Den Leader, Assistant Cubmaster, Cubmaster, & Defacto Committee Chair.... and having worked with Scouters that refuse to play with the "program" I'm tending to agree.... don't put so much thought in it. It's a tough situation for sure, especially with the complicated web of relationships within the key 3 Backing up.... are the boys in danger? (NO, from the sounds of it) are the boys having fun? (and maybe doing some learning or growing along the way once in a while)? (they're in 2nd year WEBELOS and haven't dropped so I'm guessing the answer is YES) Then my simple advice is to remind yourself that this is Cub Scouts. When you boil it down, my two earlier questions are what matters most I think.... (don't get me wrong, I believe in following the program, I wear a necker with my uniform and don't wear Jeans with the shirt... etc... I just don't see how it matters all that much in the big picture) The new 2nd year WEBELOS are the most troubling issue to me. a den of two doesn't serve them well at all. There's just not enough energy and diversity to make it worthwhile... IMHO so considering that we're only talking a few months, I'd suggest you focus your energy where it can make a difference.

sometimes it's easy to loose site of good customer service..... sounds like your manager did there!