blw2

oooo, see yet another reason why doing anything like this tied to an individual is a bad move potentially

this is how our pack's trailer was too.... similar to our troop trailer because the SM and Pack CC was the same person (& he used to be the pack's treasurer), both were registered to the Pack/Troop but to his address. I see now how this might be done out of convenience, but oh what a mess! He's no longer with us (passed away), and I fear it's going to take a lawyer getting involved to make the switch. Hopefully I'm wrong about that!

I thought I touched on this question in a recent thread, but can't find it now... We're chartered by a Catholic Parish the trailer was registered to the troop, with the old SM's home address listed and as best I can tell, it's somehow attached to his SSN, since when I tried to update the address online through our state it didn't come up under the EIN/Tax ID number So in trying to clean things up and have the CO's office address listed on everything (banking, etc..), it has come up that it looks like the CO doesn't want it. And there's the same old questions coming up re who owns the trailers, etc... They want the thing to be registered to a "Leader" in the troop because they don't want the liability BUT, I'm thinking they carry the liability anyway since THEY own the thing. (& their name is plastered on the side in great big letters) But since they don't think they own it.... well you get the picture. Because it's Catholic, ours is complicated.... the parish falls under the diocese, which falls under the ecclesiastical province.... it just gets huge in a hurry. So, I'm wondering what other catholic church chartered units do.... or other denomination churches... or non-church CO's.... big troops.... small troops....

you crack me up Krampus! yeah, haven't yet seen a historian in action....

I don't disagree with you and the others.... not one bit except to say that while I was wearing that Cubmaster Patch, i sorta felt like turning the other cheek, trying to make everyone happy as much as possible, seemed to be the better call. Didn't seem like scouts, at church, was the venue for confrontation. it seems to me that consensus is better in almost everything in scouting that majority rule.... kinda the same thing

the link is coming up dead for me

yeah, that's quite a lot interesting. thanks for sharing

Oh, forgot to add what else that I thought of when the idea popped into my noggin' If you're of the sort that might want to.... you could make some minor passive aggressive comment/joke about the sword when you pull out the magic rope (or whatever)...

hey, yeah... dress like an indian, then if somebody complains you can claim racism! Political correctness.... ruins a lot of things... ugh. seriously though, if it were me I'd not do it again..... just to avoid conflict and to let them win but maybe come up with some other innocuous item that might have some indirect connection to scouting.... like a flag pole with the den or pack flag on it.... or maybe get a piece of large diameter rope, maybe an inch or two in diameter and two or three feet long or so.... come up with a way to make it a little bit stiff.... like maybe stringing a wire through it or soaking the rope in glue and letting it cure straight Then you could change your script a bit.... "and by the power of the magic rope, and all the scout knots in its reign... I knight thee ___"

As a side point, I find this question very interesting. I've wondered several times about the history of our young unit. Once when cleaning out a storage area I didn't even know we had at the time, it was a shared space for the pack and the troop....anyway, came across a cork board with lots of random photos and info from a few years back. Looked like it was probably used as a table display at recruiting event of some sort. Not very old, but just old enough that I didn't recognize any of the scouters or scouts. Really anything worth keeping, but it gets me to thinking.... I wish we had a better running history.... list of Cub/Scout Masters and other adults, scout rosters, perhaps a list of the major trips or events they did that year, something like that.... It would be interesting indeed to know if there was anybody famous... or even just someone you know from town that used to be in the unit that you didn't know about. hmmm... might be an interesting research project for someone. by the way, My old pack would be approx 13-1/2 years old now. I have no idea about the troop.... I suspect maybe a bit older but not likely much... Think I'll ask what the recharter says...

This touches on where I was going in that other thread.... maybe just easier to forget about the non-profit all together.... Honestly as I'm thinking about it.... it seems like a better way to go with all of this back in the day, might have been for the BSA to set up the charters differently. Think about it.... if the BSA was a not for profit, you might even argue it could fall under the same concept of a church... since it has a religious component, and also exists (or could exist) as a moral, educational, and religious institution... even mental health... like a supporting charity perhaps So then units use the BSA's EIN units are owned by the BSA, taking all liability and financial concerns off of the charter orgs so then the Charter contract could just be about supporting the unit with a room, to be open and willing to assist with recruiting of scouts and scouters etc... OR units could have been set up as individual independent charters with the BSA being the responsible party (in IRS terms), like the church/CO is now... Yeah Yeah, I know BSA would mess it up, it would be a monstrosity, etc.... I'm just pie in the sky spitballin' here.... and keep in mind I'm frustrated at the moment since our CO is being a little problematic because of this confusion that is caused by the way it is now. Probably easier if dealing with a small independant church as opposed to a catholic parish, which falls under a diocese, which falls under a ecclesiastical province.... it just gets huge and complicated real quick

It was brought up in relation to non-profit status/ taxes at least that's where I took the conversation to be going.....

oh no, I was trying to say that it might be easier to just act like any old organization and just pay the sales taxes, rather than trying to convince an endless stream of people that the troop falls under the church ....it's not thrifty because it would cost the troop more for every purchase. I was only joking (well, sort of...)

on the other hand, maybe that's the problem.... they talk TO enough leaders Otherwise, I agree with you

On the issue of scout accounts... as a newly minted troop treasurer, for a troop chartered by a catholic parish I'm starting to think that we might have been better off to not even go down the non-profit path, and instead keep it simple and run it as if we were charted by the hardware store down the road... That opposes the principal "A scout is thrifty" directly BUT indirectly my time and sanity is worth something too.

does anyone happen to know if the recharter "contract" that the CO signs addresses this ownership question directly? I think I've got a copy of an old pack charter, so I'll go have a look when i get a minute.... I'm guessing a troop one would be the same. Otherwise, do you know where else it might be specified by contract I think I need to dig this out to help with our current CO uncertainty... as a help to our COR.

Sounds like you might know more about it that me, but I think they might have mean offset lithography plates My brother in law was a pressman at the local newspaper for years, i got a couple tours through the years. He used to grab one of the plates as collectables whenever a friend made the paper. My sister got her wedding announcement plate.... although I think that might have been a specially made plate as a gift. It was kinda nifty. The paper eventually went the way of outsourcing to a regional press and shut down the local press in the city..... and he lost his job.

this is maybe my biggest issue with cub scouts... at least in the old program, and I think it's still somewhat true in the new program Do it once, then repeat, then repeat, then repeat, then repeat.... I get that kids forget what happened last month, and for some things repetition is needed for learning, but the trail is along a sharp cliff's edge to boredom! Interesting observation though, that the new AOl might be more focused.... do you mean in a good and constructive way?

Yeah Krampus, that is becoming my take on the issue too. I think it's a bit more grey than that though... maybe.... This document, that I was pointed to by council's accounting folks in response to questions I had about setting up bank accounts http://www.scouting.org/filestore/financeimpact/pdf/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_BSA_Units_March_2015.pdf clearly supports the idea that the unit is "Owned" by the CO But like I said before, I'm starting to think there are intentional loop holes throughout, so that CO's can look at it whichever way they want to. So with my current question about trailer registrations This isn't the last word, but a person in our parish office is saying that the troop owns the trailers and the trailers should be registered to a leader. I wouldn't take on that responsibility... no way... but if that's the way they want to play it, what is a unit to do? Thanks for that link Krampus. Gives me some light reading to do!

we did as Krampus suggests if the scouts took it in the 5th grade while still a cub scout.... check, done.

I've read other BSA documents which seem to say that after paying off any debts, the money will go to either the CO or council, as agreed upon... and lots of other things which indicate that these bsa rules and suggestions about CO relationships are the way it is, "unless the CO wants to do it differently" or some such thing. I did a fair bit of reading on this trying to get our troop's stuff cleaned up and tied to the parish (mailing address etc...) although I'm really starting to think this was a bad idea. Might be better to set up an LLC for the troop's assets, even if the CO is not that LLC. Bank account under the LLC, trailers owned and registered by that LLC, etc.... Then the CO still maintains the responsibility to provide meeting place, etc... The unit has the responsibility of "representing" the CO, maybe doing some service projects for them, etc... I'm starting to wonder if this wouldn't be a way to go.... and honestly, i think this is how our church's admin thinks it is anyway.

It seems we are living this nightmare too, in a way.... As most of you know, I was asked to be the troop's treasurer a couple months ago It turns out that everything was set up rather badly I think. We're chartered by a catholic parish and our COR is not active most things (trailer tags, banking) were set up with a former leader's mailing address, and I suspect in a few cases their SSN So the CC wanted to change banks before I took over, and so we just finally got that mess squared away... It seems that nobody in the parish office understands or know "who owns the unit" we were referred to the Diocese person that handles the scouting program (religious medals)... they didn't understand either some seem to think it should go through their office just like the youth group does others think that things are owned by the BSA or they think we are our own entity. Now I find out about the trailer tags. I want to change the mailing address to the church before they expire. (yeah, I know not the treasurer's job, but it was in the box of files they gave me, and we don't currently have a secretary) Can't because they are registered to the troop, apparently under a leader's ssn to his home address. He's no longer available to help. I also found an old expired document re. vehicle insurance falling under the diocese, which begs more questions... Now yet another person is telling me that the trailers are owned by the troop and that they should be registered to the "leader" ugh.... I should have listened to my gut... Run Away!!!! It's what I get for trying to help. I'm starting to think that it would be best to get that in writing about our owning the stuff. Form an LLC, and move all banking and everything else to it. It would certainly be easier! sadly, I'm joking (sort of)

My son couldn't find it So on my own I went to the Index and I agree, it took me far too long to find it. Then I had to creatively nudge my son without telling him.....

I recently received a document from our council, while I was researching for my new job as troop treasurer... The document title was: FISCAL POLICIES AND PROCEDURES FOR BSA UNITS FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS What happens to the unit funds and equipment should the unit dissolve? The unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the chartered organization or the council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America.

yeah, ok... I'll agree. you've got me on that one I think.... So I'm guessing they haven't defined it then... like they did with so much of the adult stuff that expires.....