Trevorum

I recall one fellow who proposed a similar idea as an Eagle project to benefit the local library. He eventually went in another direction though. Our troop has a garage sale every two or three years and books are always popular, if rather low ticket items. Most people will not spend more than 50c for a paperback and $1 for a hardback, unless it is oversize or glossy. IMO, it's a great idea, but i'm afraid it might not net much revenue for the effort.

lawnboy - welcome to the forums! Very interesting situation, with lots of questions at this point. Please keep us posted as to how it resolves. I'm hoping that the Jewish fellows and others will not be turned away by this well-meaning priest. I'm hoping that once he gets to know the 3rd volunteer leader though a face-to-face meeting (an excellent procedure for ANY chartering org) he will allow registration.

Dan, excellent question and very much apropo to the thread. I know that some good Scouters will give you an unequivocal "no". However, I'd prefer to see the forest for the trees. If a family in my unit asked me this question, I would strongly encourage the Scout to earn the Hart and Crescent and to wear the knot. The whole point of the emblems program is to encourage Scouts to learn about their faith. If that Scout were to show up at a CoH wearing the H&C medal, I would merely smile. Of course, y'all know that my "axe to grind" is getting BSA to do a better job of reaching out to the families of minority faiths. In my opinion we do a very poor job of that.

Welcome to the forums, Zarah! It's nice to see another UU. There are more of us in Scouting than some folks would want to admit. I hope you'll stick around and join the discussions in other threads also! Hello also to Dan, packsaddle, and Kudu. They've given some good advice and perspective. If I were the parent of a Cub, I'd encourage my son to complete the UUA Love and Help and wear the knot proudly. I'm aware that a UUSO committee is currently developing a Cub Scout curriculum, but I'm not sure what the timetable is. It's a slow process. The first award took four years to develop and get approved. I suspect that it will be presented for approval at the January or May meetings of the Relligious Relationships committeee, but that's just my guess. In the meantime, encourage your Cub Scout to learn about his faith through the UUA program.

My newly minted Eagle son has been getting college brochures in the mail. Last week he called me and asked if he'd gotten anything. I answered, "Oh, not much. Just some letters for you from Gerald Ford, Dick Cheney, and Condi Rice. Oh, and Jimmy Carter and Lady Bird Johnson." Since then he's been getting even more letters of congratulation from assorted dignitaries - you should see his self confidence soaring! He told me that he didn't really understand that becoming an Eagle was such a BIG thing!

These young whipper-snappers! Why, in my day, when we wanted to exchange notes, we first had to kill the goose, grind up the galls for ink, write it out longhand, and then hand deliver it. Walking uphill both ways. And of course we were blissfully ignorant of naughty talk. Why, we didn't learn about s*x until after we'd been married. For three years.

CNY, Reminds me of the old joke about the "triangle" we can provide for our clients - Good, Fast, Cheap - a client can have any two he wishes, but never all three. I too have seen the phenonmeon you describe in Scouting. I think that in non-profit volunteer contexts like BSA, some people assume that a "job" is ALWAYS Cheap (i.e., unpaid labor), so they can also have Fast AND Good. It doesn't work that way. Volunteer labor may not be compensated in terms of money but it always comes with a price - perhaps a hidden price. All scheduled undertakings, whether for profit or not, need sufficient advance scheduling, or the result will be unsatisfactory.

Fuzzy's parable is interesting but is applicable only in those cases where the SM has clearly set a policy against allowing service to count for two different organizations. There is no BSA prohibition against this practice and I see no reason for one. If the scout can identify a service opportunity that "kills two birds with one stone", I say good for him. As long as he is completely honest about the thing I don't see any dishonesty at all. Of course, the SM has the final word on what is acceptable, and your unit may have a different policy.

I think FScouter is correct here. If a Star or Life candidate is going to help out on a service project that is being conducted by another Eagle candidate, then, yes, that project must be approved in advance by the SM. OTHER types of service opportunities that are pursued by those same Star and Life candidates do NOT need to be approved in advance. This is subject to unit protocols of course and the SM always has the final word

Egad - neckties! Every now and then, the supply division does something right and dropping the necktie was one of 'em. I don't think I know a single Scouter who wears a necktie anymore with the uniform - in my opinion it looks rather archaic (but then my kind abhors suits!) Of course there are the professionals ...

Beav, by and large you are right. Most of us who are already here in Scouting have no problem seeing the forest for the trees. However, there ARE some Scouters out there who are convinced that THEIR religious interpretation is the only correct one. I've heard a member of our troop advancement committee state that Scouts need to accept JC in order to advance. We were able to derail that train wreck - but in another troop this fellow could have done some real damage. I have also been at a RT where the chair baldly stated that Catholics were not "Christians". He was quickly set straight by some other Scouters. I've been at a camporee chapel service where the chaplain made repeated references to JC and I witnessed a number of Scouts and Scouters - whom I knew to be non-Christians - visibly cringe at the throughtless devaluation of their beliefs. So I admit I have an axe to grind - I am fervently committed to the ideal that ALL boys should have an opportunity to be Scouts and should be made welcome. To my mind, the wording of the DRP is very analogous to having the 10 Commandments on display in a county courthouse. Most Americans will have no problem whatsoever with either and will indeed see them as necessary to good citizenship. But those people from a minority, non-JCI faith will sense the exclusionary atmosphere. Have no doubt about it. Buddhists and others DO wonder if they will be able to obtain justice from a county court which so boldly proclaims it's religious bias. Buddhist families and others DO wonder if they will be welcome in a youth organization which is so clearly dominated by the religious majority. We need to reach out to these minority faith families, and in my opinion, we're not doing a very good job.

Nike, welcome to the forums. Very cool name - winged victory! I've always regretted the devaluation of that name by a shoe company. How pedestrian. I'm not familiar with the artifacts - are they classical Greek?

Hunt, I can't speak for mormons, but I think the statement would certainly clarify how Buddhists and other non-theists can be members.

Who says you need a uniform?

Our troop tried this transition 2 years ago and it was a disaster. We ended up reverting back to age cohort patrols. However I like Sempers system. Wish I had asked his advice back then!

I stand corrected. The "not for BSA" is fine print for Eagle service projects and does not necessarily apply to other ranks. In our troop, we have a blanket rule against such service to avoid confusion. We also request that the scout get approval from the SM in advance. Not a deal-breaker for otherwise good service, but up-front coordination is just good sense.

OK, OK, everyone calm down. Semper just hasn't had his coffee yet ... This actually happened to us last month. After the votes were counted, the serving SPL came to me and said, "Mr. T, what do we do?" I said, "We need a new SPL who is elected by a majority vote ..." Long pause. He said, "Maybe we shold vote again?" The next round was a squeaker, but it was successfully resolved without involving any 3rd parties. The closeness of the election favorably reflected on both the candidates.

"A group, any group will NOT be made better by forcing into it a membership segment the original group doesn't want." Thank goodness Jackie Robinson and Benjamin Davis didn't listen to that kind of nonsense. Let's be glad that Judith Livers and Anna Mae Hays didn't either. I can't imagine the hate those American heroes had to overcome.

Laure, The only guidelines are that (1) the service must not be for a commercial enterprise, (2) can not be of direct benefit to BSA, and (3) must be approved in advance by the SM. This gives the SM wide lattitude. Service to churches and schools are the most frequent kinds, but I've seen all sorts of cool service opportunities, from serving homeless people, to manning drink stations on a 10k run, to cleaning up lake shorelines. Our troop is largish, so we have created the leadership position of Service Coordinator. This Scout finds a variety of service opportunities and presents them to the troop as well organizes several troop efforts. It's a great leadership position.

(I posted this in the other thread before I realized that gwd had started this one. Sorry for the duplicate.) In my SM conferences for Star, Life and Eagle, I like to ask the candidate how he fulfills his duty to God and then, separately, how he fulfills his duty to his country. I have always accepted just about any response for duty to God, because this varies so tremendously between faiths and from family to family. Some fellows regularly attend religious ceremonies, others don't. Some pray, some meditate, some do good works. But sometimes a candidate gets stumped when I ask him about his duty to his country. Often fellows will start to talk about serving in the military or voting or sitting on juries and such. I'll then ask them if THEY have done any of those things as part of THEIR duty. This prompts them to think about what it is that they actually do that is part of their duty to their country. Most fellows will recognize that obeying the law is something they do, even stuff like not smoking and not jaywalking. And then I try to guide them to think about their duty to PREPARE themselves, now, while they are still teenagers, to be responsible citizens later when they become adults. Ah-hah! It turns out that going to school and LEARNING about his country, its history and form of government are key elements of a teenagers duty to his country. Who is his Congressman? His Senators? Who is the Chief Justice? Usually a candidate for Star does not know these things. However, I find that by the time he comes back for a SM conference for Life and Eagle, he'll know a lot more.

If the DRP was no longer a joining requirement, I don't see why there would be any panicky exodus. The Oath and Law would be the same. Units that are chartered by churches would go on providing the same program as before. I think the change would have no effect for 99% of all scouts. What it would do however, is make scouting accessible to the increasing number of boys whose families are humanist, agnostic, and nontheist. In my opinion, Scouting can hugely benefit ALL boys and excluding some is short-sighted.

gwd brings up one of my favorite issues! What exactly is a teenagers "Duty to Country"? In my SM conferences for Star, Life and Eagle, I like to ask the candidate how he fulfills his duty to God and then, separately, how he fulfills his duty to his country. I have always accepted just about any response for duty to God, because this varies so tremendously between faiths and from family to family. Some fellows regularly attend religious ceremonies, others don't. Some pray, some meditate, some do good works. But sometimes a candidate gets stumped when I ask him about his duty to his country. Often fellows will start to talk about serving in the military or voting or sitting on juries and such. I'll then ask them if THEY have done any of those things as part of THEIR duty. This prompts them to think about what it is that they actually do that is part of their duty to their country. Most fellows will recognize that obeying the law is something they do, even stuff like not smoking and not jaywalking. And then I try to guide them to think about their duty to PREPARE themselves, now, while they are still teenagers, to be responsible citizens later when they become adults. Ah-hah! It turns out that going to school and LEARNING about his country, its history and form of government are key elements of a teenagers duty to his country. Who is his Congressman? His Senators? Who is the Chief Justice? Usually a candidate for Star does not know these things. However, I find that by the time he comes back for a SM conference for Life and Eagle, he'll know a lot more.

MinnSM, welcome to the forums. I agree with Calico's interpretation of the emails. If he does not have them, he should ask his ISP - they may retain emails (for law enforcement reasons?) I dunno. Anyway, who said, "there would be no BoR?" I think the district advancement chair is being highly unreasonable. I suggest a face-to face between you and the council advancement person. If that doesn't work, talk to the SE. Hold the EBoR. If it is rejected by Council, then appeal to National. I have a 99% feeling that this is the type of case that would be a no-brainer for National. The scout made a mistake, yes, but he should not be penalized for the rest of his life.

Right, Prairie. Those maps and cartograms may be viewed at: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/ They are very interesting no matter if you live in a blue, red, majenta, or purple area.

This is a topic that came up at our last RT. Someone mentione having a Scout Olympics in our district next spring. Offer a variety of track & field events, have troops do their own prelims and then send their best competitors to the event. Award trophies or medals for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, places etc. The discussion was mixed about this idea. Have any of you guys done this in your district?