SSScout

I train drivers. The first thing I tell the newbies is "there is no such thing as a dumb question". I train folks at IOLS. The first thing I tell the nascent Scoutmasters is "there is no such thing as a dumb question". Then I ask them if they know the 13th point of the Scout Law.

I think I have suggested before that the Forum needs a "Chaplain" section... I will be leading the discussion/class about "Scout's Own" at the IOLS next month. Our District (soon to be morphed along with 5 other Districts into a larger mega county region. Another story) has Units sponsored by Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Protestant, Mormon and non-religious organizations. The curriculum I read in the link above really mirrors the stuff I talk about and ask. I pass out and we participate in a model "Scout's Own" that we have developed over the years and frankly have never had anything but good comments on. Are we concerned with unintentional offense? Of course. I point out that Scouting is a world wide, near universal philosophy. Its intention is to include every religious attitude. The similarities around the world of the various Promises and Laws indicates this to me. That we cannot include those with religious question marks in their heads and hearts is hard for me to fathom. I also point out that "officially" BSA cannot allow an athiest boy to belong, but that we will rarely find that out until he declares himself. I'm not going to ask, but I might ask at a BoR how the boy sees himself doing his "duty to God". After reminding our nascent Scouters that BSA is, after all, a "religious" organization but NOT a "religion", ( see again the Scout Promise, Law and the back of the application) I mention that there are four possibilities: 1) You can avoid the issue by not having any religious observance at all at any of your activities, but merely remind the boys of their "Duty to God" at Boards of Review, etc. 2) If the Unit is homogenous, all of one faith, then it's easy. You plan accordingly and observe your faith accordingly. 3) If you have more than one faith represented in your Unit, then you have to judge what is appropriate and non-offensive. The model S/O that we do draws from Old Testament, American Indian (Navaho and Iroquois), Q'uan, non-descript Irish (Catholic? perhaps) and Buddhist prayer in it's text. It does mention Christ, Allah, God and Great Spirit. We do not sing, but I point out that is a personal thing. We include a period of silent worship, where folks are encouraged to pray, silently or vocally, as the Spirit leads. As it happens, our home Troop recently had a Hindu lad join. His dad is a priest in the local Mandhir (a new Scout Troop sponsor? Wait and see). And yes, our Scout arms can stretch to include him. The biggest problem here is accomodating his vegetarian diet. 4) The last possibility we speak of is actively letting the boys set the standard. The idea is that the adults often muck things up by setting expectations or requirements too stringently. Hence the term "Scout's Own". But, this possibility is to be tempered by the requirements of #2 and #3 above. We call this "education". I am again reminded of the Scout I met at a formal Scout activity. He was fully decked out and I noticed he wore THREE religious medals. On closer inspection, he wore the God and Country, the Ner Tamid, and the Ad Altare Dei. I asked him how he came to wear these three together ( I only earned the G&C as a Scout). This over acheiver told me his father was Catholic, so he earned that attending his fathers church, his mom was Jewish so when he attended that Synagogue he earned the Jewish award. His troop was chartered by a Methodist church, so, he said, it was natural for him to attend MYF there occassionally. And so he earned the G&C. "Naturally". This is in contrast to the Scouts I have met who are "not sure about this God stuff". So you teach by example if not lesson and lecture. Respect for beliefs other than my own. I vaguely remember a MASH episode where Fr. Mulcahy did a Bris. Maybe not. YiS&C

Ditto the above comments. I would do my best to ignore her rude and inappropriate behavior. Smile and treat her as you do the other parents. Make an effort to ask her to help with things. Compliment the boy when you can for HIS efforts and make him to feel he is welcome and appreciated as a Cub. Try to make sure the boy's choice is Scouting. Depend on your reputation as a caring, competant Scout Leader to carry the day. Eventually, others may take her aside and "coffee cup" her. KiS MiF YiS

Scoutmaster Derek Flint ? Yeah, I remember him... I only know Remington Steele by reputation. Used to moonlight as a Shooting Range Officer as I remember...

Ditto F Scouter.... Pull out any Scout Manual... Hung on a wall, horizontally or vertically, Blue Union hangs on flags own right, the left of the viewer. Peace (preferable) or war, makes no difference. "Urban legend" stuff, uh.

Reviewing the above , I see not only a difference of opinion as to where and when to wear a patch, but a confusion as to WHAT patch we're talking about. Whitlin' Chip is earned by Cub Scouts, usually Bears and Webelos, and confers on the earner the privilege of carrying and utilizing a POCKET KNIFE on Cub Scout activities. Totin' Chip is earned by Boy Scouts and confers on the earner the privilege of utilizing a pocket knife, an ax or hand axe, or saw. Poor, unsafe useage can result in the privilege being revoked. See previous threads Both are termed "temporary" patches in "official" Scout guides, and therefore can be worn for a while on the right pocket. BUT, it is always argued, why make them in the shape of a pocket flap if they are not intended to be worn on a pocket flap? Traditionally, I have seen the two worn on the right pocket flap. So: Cubs wear it on the flap, until they get the "Summer Activities" patch. And THAT is a "tempo" patch ,too. Boy Scouts have a choice: Totin' Chip, or Fireman Chit or OA Lodge . Then we have the over achievers that wear all three on the pocket flap. "Will Work for Colorful Scraps of Cloth" (new bumper sticker)

A campfire is set to go ( make it non-fail!) in the ring. Each Scout is asked to bring in a GOOD dry piece of wood to add to the pile. The trail into the fire circle is lined with Camp Staff or OA . Scouts are instructed to enter the fire circle in silence. This instruction should be made to the camp unit leaders early on, and the Staff lining the trail should silently reinforce the idea by standing with "signs up". Each Sout enters the circle and throws his piece onto the pile and then takes his seat with his unit. When all are in, the Staff trails in and stands on each side of the fire pile. The following poem is read, LOUDLY and with solemnity (no need to read the author or title, just the poem).Toward the end, some one of the Staff kneels, visibly, next to the fire pile and lights a match, which lights a torch held by another Staff kneeling by the pile, who lights the fire with it. When the fire is well lit, both stand up and the MC of the evening comes in and commences a song or Cheer. etc... (("Lighting a Fire" by John Oxenham (1852-1941))) Kneel always when You light a fire, Kneel reverently and Thankful be For Gods unfailing Charity. And on ascending Flame inspire A little Prayer which shall upbear The Incense of your Thankfulness For this sweet Grace of Warmth and Light! For here again is Sacrefice For your Delight. Oak, Elm, and Chestnut, Beech and Red Pine Bole God shrined HIS Sunshine and entombed For you these stores of Light and Heat, Your Life Joys complete. These all have Died that you might Live: Yours now the High Prerogative To Loose their Long Captivities, And Through their Long Captivities, A wider Life to Give. Kneel Always when you light a fire, Kneel reverently. And Grateful be For Gods unfailing Charity. YiS

"Made ya think" Scout and not... many are no more... Mast Cove Camp, Portland MA The Nature Camp, somewhere out in VA Camp Theodore Roosevelt, Chesapeake Bay, MD Camp Wilson, VA Camp Freedom (Troop orgnized), Clarksville, MD Cedar Point, MD Heritage Reservation, Union PA Broadcreek, MD Camp Catoctin, Thurmont MD Camp Shiloh, Madison VA '05 National Jamboree CSDC, Lake Needwood, MD Camper, Counselor, Adult Leader, Maintenance Man, Bus Driver. It's all good. to misiquote somebody, " a bad day at camp is far better than a good day at the office".. (This message has been edited by SSScout)

Growing up (I think I'm grown up), I found that some of the folks I admired most were the ones that could say they were 'sorry' for their own action or words. Admitting fault, 'owning' ones error and not trying to pass it off to someone else is a sign, I think, of being further along the human trail than others. It surprises people and is often the only way of de-fusing dangerous situations. Even if the error/hurt/problem is not immediately recognized by the affected party, if the actor (not the acted upon) admits to the difficulty early on, it will more often than not by-pass the argument and recrimination that might otherwise follow. Thank you Gunny.. YiS&C

I remember an article about the USCGC Eagle, the 'Tall Ship' that the Coast Guard trains it's officers on. The Officer of the Deck (a Cadet)was drilling his crew (other Cadets) and got to a series of commands to arrange the sails and rigging for getting under way. The article quoted him exactly, and then noted that the crew "held fast" because the O/D had said the orders in the wrong sequence. All the commands needed to take place, but the Cadets were taught to ALWAYS do them in the sequence given. The article noted that this was the equivalent of being told to put your shoes on and then your socks. Mayo on the RIGHT slice of bread, mustard on the LEFT slice, lettuce on the mayo, ham slice on the mustard, flip ham side over on the lettuce. TP roll end NEXT to wall or AWAY? Roll up Tshirts or fold them. Necessity or philosophy or opinion or tradition?

Cub Pack has lack of membership. CC and CM and PTreas and only DL beat bushes for new members. Remaining parents see the headlights coming over the hill. No one wants to be the new CC and CM. CO is a "CO of Convenience". Parents make plans, T/F to other units. CP has no fund raising for two years, has really nice catered B&G, Web crossover, sends Webs to summer camp almost free, Cubs to CSDC almost free. When CM and CC resign (boys moving on), no one will take up the reins, unit desolves. DE beats bushes to no avail. DC has PFlag and supplies and PWD track. Treasury was about $50 at the end. CO said "eh" and funds went to Council.

Depends on Troop conditions and SM perogative, I think. Son's Troop is presently small but fairly active. Many inexperienced young Scouts, so SPL is presently also QM. Our two PL are both barely FC, so the other PoR are also spread thin. Librarian, Historian are both SC. SPL/QM will pass off the QM when another FC is created. SM decision there. Nobody wants to be CA or Bugler. (Troop clarinetist? doesn't sound quite right, but no brass players in the Troop presently....)

My congrats to your Scout and your family. I'm sure your Scout realizes how much support he owes to his family for his accomplishment. My own ECOH was at a gussied up Troop COH. Candles, readings, handshakes, pride, a slightly embarrassed father and a mother who was close to tears the whole time, as I remember. Much later, a Scout in my son's Troop had his ECOH at a campout in his grandfather's back acres. Most of the Troop attended. The older folk came and brought their folding chairs. Campfire, hotdogs and halfsmokes and all the trimmings. Nice fall evening, the weather cooperated. Candles, readings, handshakes, pride. The older folks went home late, the Scouts went to bed late. Much whooping it up around the campfire late. I don't remember ever seeing so many full uniforms at a campout before. Have fun, enjoy the occasion.

Two possibilities, no, three THREE posibilities... One, the adult wants to be a member of the Scout's Patrol (Eagle, Beaver, Cougar, etc.). Either for nostalgia of his/her days gone by or to show support as a Patrol dad/mom. Not appropriate. The adult ain't a Scout. Two, the adult wants to be a (sort of) member of the "Adult Patrol" (Old Goat, Rocking Chair, Coffee Can, etc). Solidarity? Nostalgia? Empty spot on the uniform that needs filling? Three, the adult just plain wants to be a Scout, either again, or for the first time (missed out when he/she was young, made a mistake WH/SWY), wants to be included. I've seen the RCh patch awarded as a recognition of the adults efforts on behalf of the Troop. Sort of a jr. grade WB. Is this different than being a recognized ASM? FOUR FOUR reasons... If the COR says don't wear the patch, then make sure he/she understands why the Troop dads/moms wear the patch. If the reason doesn't stand the light of day, then take the patch off and start the conversation over and convince the COR. Maybe the reason(s) aren't worth the effort, maybe the reasons need to be rethought and re-understood. Thank the COR for their concern for your unit. ""Nobody expects the Rocking Chair Patrol...""

Check out Bayport Scout Reservation of the Colonial Virginia Council. Jamaica Virginia. Two ocean racer yachts available for summer cruises. Scouts Age 14 and up. Talk about appreciated contributions...

E: I agree that Scouting is really a better deal than most other activities. But that still doesn't explain why some units seem to actively choose NOT to support the bigger Scout world. FoS is the support that does that, so it would seem. And FoS is then divided into three parts, so as to approach the smaller donors and the larger donors appropriately. Ultimately, it would seem that that is why our area is being reorganized again for the second time in less than five years. The official reason being given that it will be easier to assign a DE for the larger District that will be named. So (I am told) the present 7 Districts we have in the area will be made into 3. Our present District has about 48 Units (T,S,P,VC) and the new District may have as many as 100. It is all about money. If the DE gets the FoS, and retains membership and creates new units, then he/she is retained. If he/she is good at it, he/she is promoted. One I know, who was well liked and I thought very competant, saw the handwriting on the wall, and transferred to another Council. She has not been replaced. Neither has the other two that have left, transferred or are otherwise not in Scouting. Our present DE is one year old (!) and still learning our ropes. But even he , in coffee hours, shakes his head and marvels at the goals he has been set. He is a retired man, is a DE more as a hobby, has no real need of the income. He is well organized, attentive and dedicated. Speaks well of his training but again shakes his head at some of the higher ups. I suspect it is because of his success in FoS (in only a little more than a year)that his District is being doubled(!). So do your units pay their fair share? Or does the money they make "stay home"?

Camp School

Okay, so some units sell popcorn and some don't. How do the pros get paid and the camps get taken care of and the Scouters get published? I was just told that our District (and also several others) didn't meet the FoS goals recently. I know from talking to folks at R/T and else where that not a few units don't sell p/c and therefore don't contribute to the greater weal. Fund raise, sure, but the bucks stay home. Here's why they don't sell p/c (anecdotal, of course)::: * We don't want to compete with the Cub Scouts, because we know that's how they make their money* * The p/c is overpriced and folks don't buy it .* * We don't like the hassle of the ordering/bookkeeping/storing/marketing/ etc.* *What's the Council done for us? Why should they get a share? Doesn't FoS power the Council? Why should the p/c company get such a big share?* * Our boys don't like the prizes. They don't see the result of their effort. Our fund raising project lets them see the results of their efforts up close* * Calico: Your "enforcment" point is well taken. I don't have an immediate answer to that. But I do know that (1)there are a fair number of Units out there that do not contribute to the National or Council expenses except as they are charged for activities and dues.((and we all know the activity fees and dues rarely cover all the expense)) (2)a fair number chaff at the popcorn idea. (3) there are organizations out here that make sure their member groups are aware of the cost of their business and what a "fair" share of that cost might be. Guilt tripping? Maybe so, but one can only ask for so much out right charity. One gives as one is led to give and as one sees the need. Once upon a time, I remember Scout Units that held Spaghetti Dinners and such to "Send the Troop to Camp" , "Buy the Scout Ship the Boat", "Buy the Explorer Post a Trailer" and the Scouts worked at it, grew in esprit de Troop and made friends with the community along the way. How bout half to the Unit, a quarter to the Council and a Quarter to National?

"...any combination of camping with Scout's family, patrol or unit." Could camping with church group be counted, if the "rustic" quality is met? How about a school class 5 day AT camp trip? But not Webelos Week at a Council camp...?(This message has been edited by SSScout)

"He works to pay his own way..." Girl Scouts sell Cookies. Boy Scouts sell Popcorn. We have both good feeling and bad about these "traditional" fundraisers. Won't go into that here. The national organization of each has arranged these opportunities to make money for units, Councils and the National (not to mention the Trailsend and Murray Cos.). Varying shares of the profits. How 'bout this: Give each Scout Unit an apportionment or goal. Make it calculated on the number of Scouts and Adult leaders and age (experience?) of the Unit. Let the Unit develope a project/plan for the gaining of the filthy lucre. Spaghetti dinner, carwashes, christmas trees, flag placements, 'Rent-a-Scout'. whatever. Even selling POPCORN. After expenses, Unit keeps a third, a third goes to Council, a third goes to National. Necessary paper work and accounting. Camps are bought and maintained, salaries are paid, classes are held. This would not replace "user fees" (camp fees, class fees, membership dues, insurance dollars, etc.)or "fundraising" (tapping corporate deep pockets). But it might let units do local stuff and avoid the comparison of cheaper cookies/popcorn versus supporting Scouting ("I don't want to buy such expensive popcorn, but here's $20"). More better local publicity? Give the DE and UCs another reason to come around and back pat and "attaboy" the units. Another ribbon and placque and patch? What think thou?

Havenja ever wanted to be able to yell "RIBS!! BARBECUE RIBS!!" instead? Think of the possibilities...

Gifts are given, not required. I always appreciated more the gifts I got from folks that I knew cared about me but that I really wasn't expecting anything from. When the recipient is EXPECTING a gift, then you might have another problem. But gifts are given. My only gift problem was with my mom. For the longest time, she would "shotgun" me at christmas and birthday. Even into my adult years. I finally sat her down and asked about her need to give me many gifts, some small, some expensive, but many. She said it was important to her that I like her gift, so out of many, perhaps I would like at least ONE of them... I had to gently remind her that I would love anything she might give me. She seemed genuinely surprised when I told her that I best loved the handmade Christmas ornaments she used to give out. The absolute number of gifts on an occasion declined, but 'two' seemed the regular number for a long time. My favorite Scout thing? Our Troop staged it's own summer camp for several years on "the property" (see other thread). It was named "Camp Freedom". We received a handmade wood cookie dangle with "C F " wood burned into the disc. I have three, tucked away. Give with your heart and it will be received by his.

Yeah, funny in a sort of Road Runner / Coyote sort of way. But that's cartoon, and this is too close to real life. I give it a "two".

Check out Roy Sullivan, National Park Ranger at Shennandoah National Park. Struck by lightning 7 times. What was he doing wrong? Or right??

(((Seseme Street Meets Broadway)))) (Vamp up and under) " EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK - Lahoma , where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...." NO, no, no, now try it again... (Vamp up and under) "IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIK - Lahoma , where the wind comes sweepin' down the plains, and the wavin' wheat..." usw.