SSScout

Friend Leroy: I believe you have made my point. Ms Parks was seeking equal use of a public utility, tho it might 've been privately owned, still ostensively a public utility. The leasing of a service or property, be it privately or publicly owned allows the leasee (contract definitions allowing) particular use of that property or service. Restaurants are closed to the public when rented for private parties. Chartered buses are not a "public conveyance". When the BSA rents a piece of the park, the general public cannot use that part of the park. We apologize , but the Korean Baptist Church cannot just show up and expect to be able to set up a volley ball net where we already have an archery range. Mr. and Missus Smith may feel put out when they arrive and the pavillion they hoped would be available for their kids birthday party is full of Cub Scouts tying knots, but hey, we paid our fee and made the reservation months before. So the Rockville Russian Society comes and uses the boat house for their polka party, the Cubs loved the loud music. We use what we rented. Folks can still walk by and thru to other park areas. If the Washington Ethical Society calls and reserves the daytime park for a week and pays the $4,000. fee, we won't feel left out. Just our fault for not getting there first, us Scout folks will just have to pick a different week or park. WES: Have fun, play fair and don't eat too many chilli dogs. I still don't see where the decision is about lack of access to the park. It APPEARS to be about taking offense at who is using the park, not about lack of access. So, if this ruling is allowed to stand, and if I took umbrage at the ideas promulgated by the Washington Ethical Society (local athiest group. Nice people, by the way), and if the WES leased out a piece of the park, and if I decided the WES was so ubnoxious that I could not even walk by that part of the park wherein the WES held sway, and I was so inclined, I could SUE the WES for limiting my use of the park? And seek monetary compensation? Damages? Even when there was no other physical limitation of use? Have I got that all correct?

Goodgoogamooga... NCAC has a bunch of stuff on the drawing board, around the time of the NJambo. Mebbe pipe dreams, but these were announced at a recent commish meeting: Mini Jambo down at Goshen Scout res., Parade down Pennsylvania Ave. Super Camporee on the mall or Wash. Monument grounds. Some sort of Scout reunion of Scout personages. And some other stuff I didn't include in my notes. Was Obama a Scout?

Rosa Parks was not seeking to ride a privately chartered bus. She was seeking to use a publicly provided utility. Yes, my park is in Maryland, but the California court decision is a Federal Law Decision and will, therefor, provide precedent in all 50 states. Hence my query, duh. My reading of the provided sources indicates the court is allowing legal standing to the idea of injury thru non-injurious offense. Name calling is generally not a sueable offense, except in extreme cases, am I correct? Name calling to the point of inciting a riot, for instance. But if purely an idea or a quality of belonging (membership?) is found "offensive", then, by this ruling, in far less than extreme cases, the mere declaration of being "offended" can be grounds for seeking recompense (how much is an insult worth?). In my park, we go to lengths to assure the public has access to that part of the park that the CSDC is not actually using. And we make sure that the public is aware that our leased part of the park is brimming with overactive, loud Cub Scouts. And yes, the park people get complaints about "limiting use of OUR parks" from folks. But these complaints are no different than the ones they receive about the reserved use by Locheed Martin, or the County Rec Department, or the State Police (when they close off the park for rescue dog training. You wanna jog past a dozen German Shepards?), or the First XYZ Church Christian school Day Camp. All could be offensive to someone, but all have reserved the park in their turn and paid the appropriate fee. So the court case is certainly not really about Park Use. Is it?

For bucoo bucks, BSA leases a large section of the local park (5 picnic pavillions, the sport field, the "lower woods area", the "middle woods area" and the boat house pavillion for our CSDC. Upwards of 200 Cub Scouts swarm over the area, but the park people insist we cannot impede the publics use of the rest of the park. John and Mary Q. Public walk around and thru the camp all day. We have even had joggers run THRU the roped off archery range. So is this part of this decision?

It needs to be remembered that the US flag folding system is traditional and was created way after the creation of the flags design. The flags proportions just happen to lend themselves to this particular system. The scripts quoted above came after that. As is noted in the last reference, it's authorship is unknown and its religious references maybe inappropriate if used during an "official" government ceremony. I have seen/heard several scripts using the flag folding as a prompting means. Various purposes, and to varying success. I've even seen/heard one specific to Scouting purpose and history. Once, never again. It's almost as if folks can't stand a little respectful silence and have to find an "appropriate" way to fill that silence. I am reminded of the country western song by Tex Ritter and Wink Martindale (among others) called The Deck of Cards, where a soldier explains how the deck of playing cards reminds him of the Bible. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deck_Of_Cards If the folds remind you of important things, so be it. But understand that the folds were there first and the important things will be there without the folds. Lots of good discussion in this forum and webwise. Have fun.

Bizarre. Let us assume (for discussion sake) that the company that is the prime contractor for making nuclear warheads rents out a public park pavillion for a corporate picnic. If I find the creation of nuclear warheads offensive, would I then be able to SUE in court to prevent the company from utilizing a public park? Even tho I have not been prevented from using the park or (in my turn) reserving or renting the same pavillion? What is the limiting factor here?

Most excellent. Goes to show how important marketing and labeling is. The food is tasty because we say it is! Ha!

Go Hee Fat Choy... I hope y'all can see the parallels in the story I'm about to relate. Once upon a time, Cub son and I attended our first Parent /son overnight, ("Son and One") sponsored by the Council. It was held at an Izaac Walton League property. We were new and didn't know what to expect, but I had Scout experience and, I guess, knew what I WANTED to expect... Saturday morn thru sunday morn. Council provided lunch and dinner and breakfast and activities. Okay until Sat. night. Rain threatened. Along the way, I had made the acquaintance of some other Scout dads and moms. We expected a campfire, but none appeared to be in the offing. Found one of the (so I thought) organizers (turned out later he was a DE from a neighboring District. Didn't know what that was back then) and asked. He was sitting in the lodge, strumming a guitar. He said "I don't know. Not in charge of that". Well, who is? Don't know, strum, strum. I went to my Scout acquaintances and we talked. We walked thru camp and talked to others. Some found the campfire barrel, some found some firewood, some talked about skits and cheers and ghost stories. Two of us became MCs. We had a campfire. Later that night it poured down rain. Some of us slept in the lodge, some in cars. Some in properly pitched and sealed tents. We learned to work together rather than just trusting to the "powers that be". I still see occassionally one or two of those Scout moms and dads at other events. To my knowledge, nothing was ever said about the S&O campfire that was not "officially" held.

Pish-tush, clap-trap and jimmerjammer... Much ado about lots of stuff. She asked for help/advice and , as usual, got alot of the same from many knowledgeable folks. I have no doubt she will (1) get trained (in Feb.) (2) get lots of assistance (from the folks that recruuited her) (3) She will yell and scream if she doesn't get it (!). Sounds like her District?Council has the resources available even if they weren't tapped last year. She will tap them. Official requirements/guidelines/manuals not withstanding, there's nothing like personal experience as a guide (within OFFICIAL guidelines, of course). Listen to the Spirit of Scouting (whatever that is) and your heart and you'll not go too far wrong. YiS from a recent CSDC FAEE.

SctDad: Merry Christmas... Sounds like you are already letting the parents choose THEIR camp meals... Just like at home... a balance of what the Cubs WILL eat (let'em choose?) and what's nutritious and worth eating (parents choose). Reference Bill Cosby's breakfast routine ("read the ingredients on the box! Chocolate Cake! Eggs! That's good! Flour! Milk! Flour's good! Breakfast food!") but not all cake... Convince the parents that THEY need to show cooperation, and eat with the Cubs. Can't go out to Tom and Ray's and order crabcakes to go. Our hard choices have involved religious requirements (vegetarian vs omnivorous) rather than picky eaters. But parents can be picky too, I guess? Boy Scouts, on the other hand, need guidance too. General camp food Troop rules: no soda pop, no donuts or pastry for breakfast, vegetables and or fruit at lunch and dinner, but still can't forcibly make'm eat it. Bon Apetit!

Balderdash, folderol and poppycock. German hard salami, too. BW: We usually depend on you to quote chapter and verse to us. And truly, your expertise is encyclopedic. But I must defer to my significant other, who is an experienced bookkeeperslashaccountant. She says that an organizationslashgroup to whom the IRS has issued a 501©(3) status is a quote charity unquote. Any arm of the BSA is therefor included. She knows of no defined difference between a quote charity unquote and a quote not for profit charitable organization unquote. If the Scout unit is sponsoredslashchartered by a non-profit 501©(3), then they are included under their CO. I frankly don't know of any Scout unit chartered by a for profit organization, but it is possible, I suppose. Would that confuse the issue, I suppose so. When the public says to us "no thank you, we don't eat popcorn, but here's something for your Scouts" and hands me a twenty, I respond "thank you, and you have a good day, ma'am!" and make sure the money goes in our Troop's Camper Fund.

Thank you BW: If one is doing a Scouty thing (traveling to camp, service project for CO, selling popcorn or donuts or xmas trees for the Troop or Pack, staffing Daycamp, whatever) wear the uniform. And the uni is not only the "class A" field uni, it is whatever is defined by the authority and circumstance. Campshirt and shorts is the uni. Full dress and sash is the uni. Troop sweats is the uni. "STAFF" shirt and shorts is the uni. But if it is NOT a Scouty activity, and wearing the uni would make it appear so, then don't wear it. Political canvassing. Ringing the bell for the Salvation Army. Soliciting funds for Habitat for Humanity. Directing parking at the High School Concert. Raising money for the band? wear the BAND uni. Do it because it is worthy of your support, but go in civies. GREY AREA::: District is asked to help volunteer at Community Festival: Color Guard duty, message running, setup, breakdown, traffic directing, bundle carrying. Uniform activity? As a group is invited, and no money is involved, I would say yes. Here, it is obvious that a service is being done and not soliciting. Judge accordingly, ask the District/Council folks for advice.

CSDC Fundraiser... Great idea. Check on the local banks, and businesses. All of them like to have something like this to point to for "Community Awareness" PR. We had a generous local business underwrite our CSDC Park Fees. Made our camp budget look awhole lot better. How did we get that? Talked it up at Roundtable, a Scoutleader went to his boss who went to his boss who went to THE boss and he went to the Board of Directors who were considering their upcoming year charitable contributions. Networking and awareness. Keep the conversation going. Someone knows somebody who has a cousin who can help. Don't forget King Arhur, Monty Python & the Holy Grail, etc. Cardboard Box horses and foam tube lances for jousting (which by-the-by, is the Maryland State Sport). Found a Professional Archer who did a wonderful demo for us. Have fun. (bumdadabumbumbum...We're knights of the round table, we dance when ere we're able and imitate Clark Gable...)

We really do need a seperate Forum section to discuss the R word. As a Woodbadge project, I undertook to get the Houses of Worship within a two mile radius of our local town center to hold open houses (for lack of a better term) all on the same weekend, for Scouts to visit (and earn a patch, natch!). I found no fewer than 17 HoW within that two mile radius, representing at least twelve defined faiths. Twelve agreed to the idea, but an unfortunate set of circumstances led to no one attending. It is scheduled again for a weekend this coming spring. Now, some of these HoW sponsor Scout units, and many found the idea interesting. A few actively said no to my invitation, some never responded. But the ones that said yes all were interested in folks (not just Scouts) knowing about THEIR form of faith and seemed to welcome being compared to others. A Scouts "Duty to God" is not the Scoutleaders business to define. It is, however, the Scouleaders business to encourage. To remind. To stir up. But it is the Scout's (and his family's) business to do the defining. All the Scout leader can do is to listen and nod his head when the Scout talks about it. And they will, if you invite it. Good campfire stuff. Devout? Wonderful, good, however expressed. Agnostic? Searching? Questioning? Very good, I would not expect any young person to have fully and irrevocably found and developed their faith. I know my kids haven't. Athiest claim? See other Forum threads. I'll not comment here. I earned G&C from the UMC my Troop was sponsored by, but my family didn't attend. Maybe that was just lipservice, or my academic overachieving, I don't know. Took me more than a few years to figure out where God wanted me. I certainly don't regret the G&C, but I'm not Methodist today. I would not expect any Scout leader to put a guilt trip on a Scout about his faith or lack thereof. But reminding, poking, proding, sure. I know my son and daughter have come to expect it. Don't want to dissapoint them. Now, y'all go home to your kith and kin and have a good Christ's Birthday, y'hear? (This message has been edited by SSScout)

All you Scout Leaders need to S T O P SHOW: Point out, name things as you go along, talk about SEEING rather than merely LOOKING. Demonstrate that skill. Help them to realize your enthusiasm. TEACH: As a Leader (adult or otherwise), by definition you have superior knowledge. Impart it. Gently allow the Scout to gain from your experience, not by pounding it in but by oozing it out for him to soak up. OBSERVE: Watch the Scout. Can he use the new knowledge? Is there an "aha!" for him? Can you help him to improve his skill or recognition? Carefully point out how he can improve. Allow him to take pride in his new skill or knowledge. PRACTICE: Give your Scout opportunities to try out his abilities, to gain better utility at the skill. Take him out. Allow him to make mistakes and find out what happens (G2SS in place!). THEN comes the test, passing the requirement is LAST in the process. And always, ALWAYS, the Scout must pass the requirement BY SOMEONE'S JUDGEMENT. Somebody besides the Scout "signs off" on it, yes? And after all, the Scout is gonna know if HE really passed it or not, anyway, isn't he? Yeah, he can read the book and practice on his own. It is possible and done all the time, but then why have Senior Scouts or Scoutmasters or Merit Badge Counsellors? The book can give the Scout some of what he needs, but that's not what I think Scoutings about. I fear the previous discussion has left out THAT part of the equation in the rush.

Do a "search" here of "Cub Scout Day Camp" and you will find oodles of material on how to do what. Pick and choose to fit your own situation (physical and philosophical!). Check with Council, they often decide the theme without asking anyone ("Wonderful World of Podiatry"). Go to Roundtable and beat the drums about staffing. Early. Get word out on the Council and District newsletter and website. Find a First Assistant Everything Else (spouse??) and get them to start beating bushes for "specials", preferably in line with the theme ("bunion carving demonstrations"). See other postings, and don't forget to watch the smiles... KiS MiF YiS

It's about time someone brought in the "soft cushions and comfy chayah...". I'm tired of standing . 'FRONTIERS OF MEDICINE PART 2' 'THE GATHERING STORM' Cut to presenter at desk. Presenter: Penguins, yes, penguins. What relevance do penguins have to the furtherance of medical science? Well, strangely enough quite a lot, a major breakthrough, maybe. It was from such an unlikely beginning as an unwanted fungus accidentally growing on a sterile plate that Sir Alexander Fleming gave the world penicillin. James Watt watched an ordinary household kettle boiling and conceived the potentiality of steam power. Would Albert Einstein ever have hit upon the theory of relativity if he hadn't been clever? All these tremendous leaps forward have been taken in the dark. Would Rutherford ever have split the atom if he hadn't tried? Could Marconi have invented the radio if he hadn't by pure chance spent years working at the problem? Are these amazing breakthroughs ever achieved except by years and years of unremitting study? Of course not. What I said earlier about accidental discoveries must have been wrong. Nevertheless scientists believe that these penguins, these comic flightless web-footed little bastards may finally unwittingly help man to fathom the uncharted depths of the human mind. Professor Rosewall of the Laver Institute. A scientist with tennis courts in the background. He wears a white coat. SUPERIMPOSED CAPTION: 'PROF. KEN ROSEWALL' Scientist (Australian accent) Hello. Here at the Institute Professor Charles Pasarell, Dr Peaches Bartkowicz and myself have been working on the theory originally postulated by the late Dr Kramer that the penguin is intrinsically more intelligent than the human being. http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode38.htm#6 Oh, bugger!!

Sarge: I believe that you are on the right track. And I like your mention of the "source". I also like going back to the "source". For Scouts and their leaders, I find no better place to start than with B-P: "Reverence to God and reverence for one's neighbour and reverence for oneself as a servant of God, is the basis of every form of religion. The method of expression of reverence to God varies with every sect and denomination. What sect or denomination a boy belongs to depends, as a rule, on his parents' wishes. It is they who decide. It is our business to respect their wishes and to second their efforts to inculcate reverence, whatever form of religion the boy professes." == from "Aids to Scoutmastership"== As to encouraging the boys in their spiritual life, and you are uncomfortable in that role, if you ask around you can probably find someone in your District or Council ("Relationship Committee") who can speak to the Cubs AND THEIR PARENTS (!)about that part of the Scout life. There is a multitude of religious awards available for Cubs to earn about their faith. There used to be a poster (#5-206A 1995) that displays the 75 or so awards of the various faiths, but I've been told that it is out of print. Unless your Cub Unit is mono faith, it is not appropriate to be too "preachy" as to any particular faith. Each family will, no doubt, be concerned with teaching their children the truth as they know it. I leave it to you to see where that conversation might lead. And, as has been noted before, it is the parent that passes the Cub on that requirement, not you, the Cub Leader.

Claro... There are three... Cub, Webelos, and the DC Service Award...

First, take a walk down the trail near to your campsite and note the "animal signs" you can find. Then, take your newbie Scouts down the same trail and point out the beaver gnawed tree, the acorns chewed by squirrel, the woodpecker hole, the possum scat, the ant hill, the woodchuck/fox/gopher holes, etc. Then, turn'em loose on a DIFFERENT trail, and see if they can find the stuff on their own. Or ask'em to point stuff out as you hike in to camp. Camp on beach? Hike in upland woods? Park in the city? each different challenges, each a possibilty. Museum? Zoo? Learning yes. Requirement passing, no.

"" Long ago, in a District, far, far away...." "" I have a bad feeling about this...hot dog and beans..." "" Use the Scout Spirit, Luke..." "" I am... Your Cubmaster!!!" "" Live long and prosper" (oops, wrong reference...) Menu for the B&G: Pizza the Hut, frozen Yodurt (with Jeddi whip), Lando Calraisins, Wookie Cookies, Chewburgers, eWok Stirfry, Mashed Potatooines, Bobo Fettucine, I love a challenge...

Okay, okay, okay.... That's "award" as in present to, give to, make admission of... We also "award" the PL, and SPL their patches at the CoH. This is incorrect? We also present the Scout his Rank patches and award them their merit badges. Is this too many nits to pick? My apologies to all for the faux pas. Now where did I leave, drop, place, arrange my thesaurus?

Thanks OGE, yes I did before, and now it worked normally this morning.I have no answer.

I had a job where I was also on foot alot. I am not a podiatrist nor do I portay one in any media service, however... E... Your feet feel warmer I believe because if you are Gold Bonding your feet three times a day, you are flexing and rubbing and paying attention to your tootsies three times a day. Out of the shoe, there is more blood flow, hence warmer. Foot health requires, IMO, (1)Scrub feet with soap and water (2) dry thoroughly. When dry, apply Gold Bond if that seems to help. (3) go barefoot as much as possible otherwise. (4) Do not wear nylon socks. Makes your feet sweat unnaturally. (5) woolsocks (dye'm black if you must). the lanolin in the wool does good things for you. keep feet warm in winter, cool in summer. Big fluffy socks, not too tight. Wool blends are good, but I find purely synthetics (even Thorlo) make my feet sweat, and the socks needed to be changed everyday, which come to think of it, ain't a bad idea anyway. But it seemed excessive.(6) shoes need to fit well, not tight. toes wiggly, not cramped. (7)tie shoes snug so feet don't move in heel.(8) when walking, flex feet and toes alot (9) get a promotion so you'll have a desk to put your feet up on.(This message has been edited by SSScout)

BW: I did not SAY the Scout should ONLY be recognized the once. But I have never heard of giving an award the first, then take it back and give it a second time. The expense is not much, but if the Pack buy the Cord and PoR Patch, and present it to the Scout, why need the Troop do the same, except to say at the CoH, "here is a new DC"? And likewise, if the Scout's Troop present the Shoulder Cord and PoR Patch, does the Pack again give him a second set or merely pat him on the back before the Pack in recognition of his service? So if the "tradition" becomes that the Troop present the PoR Patch and the Pack present the Shoulder Cord, perhaps that is a good way to do it. Indeed, I like that. I will pass it on thus. Danke schon, Kraut60.